Look at Ray Ray Run

Wrong. Some people are actually capable of analyzing something without looking at W/L's for a manager. As has been noted 1000 times, this argument implies that Ned Yost is a better manager than Kevin Cash. Let that sink in for a minute. And are you really defending Larussa and Stewarts tenure in Arizona? My lord.

Or... wait for it... he got better players when he went to other teams so he looked better because his teams won more games.

It's wrong to move guys around and try them at different positions to open up flexibility? Weird... because most teams have tried this today after realizing the value in it. Viciedo wasn't a bad defender because he moved positions - he was a bad defender because he had poor reactions on the infield, couldn't throw, and had terrible breaks in the outfield. The White Sox traded Semein; get over it. The assumptions that the Sox wouldn't get anything out of Semien like the A's got is comical - given that the Sox were already the team to develop a 6th round pick into a MLB player in 2 years.

Also, I'll put my baseball acumen up against yours any day you'd like pal. I don't run around calling you a moron for having a differing opinion. I speak from a place of actual knowledge - given that I played the game at a high level and no player walks around blaming their manager for anything other than playing time. I also understand the need for analytic implementation - as I am a big believer in it, as is clear by my posts and analysis here - but the incorrect assumption that every poster makes is that all players want the data... they want the information. That's simply not true.

I have said I don't think Renteria is a good strategic manager; I've also said that means very little in the grand scheme of managing. Managers manage personalities at the big league level - that's their most valuable and important trait.

Sorry if I'm not going to pat Tony on the back for winning a World Series with the most juiced up roster in MLB history. I guess Tony deserves credit for McGwire and Jose shooting eachothers ass up with steroids. It's always funny to listen to people tell me how important a baseball manager is. It's not that Tony had some of the most talented rosters in MLB history - rosters that he clearly didn't build - it was all Tony... what a laughable comment. The best manager in baseball today, imo, has zero World Series wins. Does that mean he can't be the best? I certainly think Kevin Cash is about as good as we've seen at the position - marrying analytics with personalities better than we've ever seen. You go ahead and judge a manager based on the talent of their rosters, I'll judge them on things that aren't related to surrounding talent.

I was a big fan of Semien, but obviously didn't post here. He was a raw player who made great strides in the minor leagues - being, arguably, the best player at AA (I believe he won AA POY) and he was a terrific athlete. He was actually a lot like Timmy in the sense that he had a lot of tools, but he didn't have good fundamentals. How can you blame the White Sox for Marcus Semien? How big of a joke are these comments? Marcus Semien was a 6th round draft pick, who the Sox developed and got to the big leagues in TWO years. He was a big leaguer by 22 years old, and you think the majority of people didn't think he could be an MLB regular? After being the AA POY and reaching the big leagues in less than 300 MiLB games played?

The White Sox didn't "push" Leyland out. The White Sox didn't push Francona out. The White Sox did push Larussa out. Dombrowski is another complete hack who has no idea how to maintain sustained success.

LaRussa was/is a moron. He's actually my number one example of how coaching means nothing and that coaches receive praise for their players accomplishments when they shouldn't. Larussa's career was made on the back of steroid users; everywhere he went, roids seemed to follow him. Weird how that works. Tony spent his career thinking he was smarter than everyone else, and amazingly enough when really smart people actually started analyzing managerial strategy and becoming involved in the game, Tony certainly wasn't leading the pack. When Tony went into an actual decision making position for an organization, it didn't go so well.

Man, this type of commentary is just garbage. Semien worked his ass off and was given instruction by an instructor that he took too. He was the one who put in the work and improved his game. He was never "going to Japan." His defense has seen an uptick by one metric the past two years (he graded behind Timmy in the defensive runs metrics released yesterday). The main driving force behind his WAR was his bat last year. He had graded out as a below average SS defensively and became a + one defensively. To insinuate that he wouldn't have improved sans Washington goes against the work ethic he has displayed. Washington is a very good educator of infield fundamentals, but he isn't the one who defined Semien's career or turnaround - Marcus is the one who did that.

Wait, so larussa wasnt an intelligent hire because he achieved more elsewhere? You're all over the place.

I know exactly what he does in the clubhouse. He has a unified group that rallies behind him and plays their asses off. A latin Terry Bevington might be dumber than saying he's not a serious baseball man. Bevington was handed a job he didnt earn or deserve. Renteria worked his way up and earned his shot. Bevington signaled for bullpen arms that weren't warming up. He was one of the dumbest coaches in any sport. You can dislike renteria all you want, but its irrational and you are putting far too much on a baseball manager whose impact is negligible at best. A baseball player has never said, I would of made it but my manager was trash.

Bad. I hate Larussa, but how did that one work out?

That season, that playoffs... itll just never be matched from a personal sense. What a perfect script. That Konerko grand slam still gives me the chills... the teams most emblematic player of the last few decades (Frank was the greatest, but Paulie was so South Side and his personality was perfect) hit the most memorable home run in one of the biggest games in franchise history... while the teams most emblematic pitcher got a win and a save. Those two guys, while not my personal favorites, were two of the easiest guys to ever root for in sports. Humble, loyal, hard working, and honest. What a ride that was, let's do it again. Crede 4 life.

Bryant isnt everybody. He's their best player and he's on a HOF trajectory. The Cubs are one of the three wealthiest teams in the game - they absolutely can afford to re-sign Bryant.

Ozzie seemed to do OK.

Renteria isn't a serious baseball man? He's been in the game for 40 years! Renteria worked his way up through the ranks of minor league coaching; receiving praise for his development of young players as a MiLB manager in the 90's. Finally, he earned a shot as a big league coach after 11 years of managing/coaching in the minor leagues! I don't think Renteria is a good strategic manager, but then again I don't think Francona is either. I think Francona is great at relating and working with his players, and maximizing their talents with his personality. I feel Renteria does a really nice job in the clubhouse and the players like him. I don't think he impacts the game negatively anywhere near the degree that some of you do. At the end of the day, players make plays, and even if you put a player who is slightly less likely to make a play in a situation it doesn't impact the outcome of the game anywhere near the degree you think. Hinch had a career .420 winning percentage in Arizona - with bad rosters - and was chased out of town due to his "inability to relate to the players." Rick Renteria's career win % as a manager? .427 with terrible teams as well. Judging a manager by his record with bad rosters is hilarious. Saying Renteria isn't a serious baseball person is one of the biggest jokes I've seen on this forum since I started posting here.

And if they had Renteria career lineups they'd have zero world series.

To further that a bit @Moan4Yoan many cite Francona as a great manager. In the process they ridicule and attack renteria - stating the primary reason hes terrible is the sac bunting... renteria and Francona were first and second in sac bunts by a lot (29,26).

The knock on Girardi in NY was that he didn't care enough about the Metrics but was a great players coach. It's the same exact knock that's on renteria. I also have no idea how you determine a good manager from a bad manager rankings wise. You can say renteria is at the bottom but it doesnt make it true. AJ Hinch was practically chased out of Arizona - said to be in way over his head and, at the time, was the "worst manager in baseball." Now he's regarded positively.

They're catch probabilities - which is the driving force behind all of this - are still far from perfect. I'm not ready to anoint them better yet. They ignore far too many factors in calculating them.

This isnt some be all defensive metric - the others still matter. This is just another defensive metric where Castellanos is awful

People really misuse the shit out of market value on this site.

This isn't a "concern" though. This shows, and it's just one metric, the worst defender in MLB by quite a lot.

Interesting data; I am getting it all added to my data. Pretty excited to have new analysis added! That said, my biggest take away from this data is what in the fuck is going on with Vlad Jr? I had never read his defense was horrible - it was never advertised as great but it wasn't advertised as bad. I understand he can get better, but that number at 3rd base is just eye popping. He was -16 runs last year and the 2nd worst in all of baseball at 3rd was -7. We think we have Eloy problems... man, do the Jays have Vladdy problems. That is absolutely horrendous.