poppysox

Thanks for the typo correction.

I believe the Admin should go out of their way to be fair and balanced in presenting both sides of most issues. Instead, many of the Admin join in the bully sessions that frequently break out on a daily basis. It's reminiscent of how a pack of Hyenas attacks a buffalo calf. It is not my intention to paint all admin with the same brush. Texsox for example goes out of his way to show both sides of the argument. I probably agree with him on 90% of his content.

I know you think the overwhelming numbers on this site favor your viewpoint. However, of the over 6000 members of these forums only approximately 15 members have participated in the recent days of posting on this subject. Many good posters have given up because they don't like the gang tackle approach used by a few. Sadly, half of those 15 posters are admin who should welcome opposing viewpoints but instead attempt to steamroll those with opposing views.

I view the argument about super 2 as a charge that owners manipulate service time. Of course, manipulation is not accurate since the owners simply "manage" in order to use to their advantage the current contract terms. To try and characterize service time management as a salary cut is just not true. Now if you tell me the owners have rejected the player's request for a change from the current contract terms...I would agree. I believe the owners initiated the counteroffer of the pre-arb bonus pool with an offer of 10 million and the players countered with $105 later reduced to $100 when the owners refused what they considered an outlandish counter.

It's what you do. You make every effort to deflect from the point being made with a dozen unrelated counterpoints. People give up because they don't want to write a term paper in order to rebut your BS.

What salary cut did the owners offer? You just live in your own little universe, don't you? The fact that a half dozen posters want to give it to the owners doesn't make you a baseball authority on what people know about baseball.

You don't have Amazon without the employees. Guess what...those Amazon employees would love to play baseball for a living.

I love when you pretend to be obtuse. Yes, back in November the players made an offer in free agency. I don't pretend it didn't exist. I do contend that neither you nor I thought that offer was in any way serious or relevant. The players dropped it overnight because it made them look like lunatics. I picked up the negotiation with the "extra fund" concept because it was the only time that both parties mentioned something both could at least discuss. Players made a ridiculous counteroffer and the owners were insulted. I don't intend to replay every silly offer and counteroffer in order to discuss the current point of discussion. I can assure you my motivation is not to sway your biased position. I don't really think it's relevant that the players make 48 silly offers compared to 16 counteroffers. What is now happening is just how the system works and both parties need to cut the crap and talk about what really matters. Both parties claimed parity was the main thing so let's focus on that.

I believe the $105 players and $10 owners were original offers with the players then offering $100.

My reply to 2K5 fits this discussion. If you offer to sell your house for $300,000 and I offer $100,000 do you owe me a counteroffer? I don't think so because you showed yourself to be something other than a serious buyer.

What "evidence" do I need to have an opinion? We all are on the outside looking in. I don't give much credit to the players for making an outlandish request and having the owners not respond. Did the players ever think their $100 counteroffer would be accepted? Of course not. If the players would have countered with $50 million I might have agreed that the owners should have countered. If you were selling your house for $300,000 and I offer you $100,000 do you owe me a counteroffer? I bet you would be insulted and not bother to counter my offer.

You are correct. I don't care that owners "win" at the cost of losing part or all of the season. I don't imagine the pro-union fans want to lose games in order to "win" either. If we can get heated over this stuff...imagine what it's like when the negotiators take the meeting results back to their respective constituents.

I don't accept the premise that the players are negotiating in good faith while the owners are stonewalling. Like most labor negotiations both sides proposed unrealistic things and both sides countered with something equally uninspiring. The player's last proposal offered was to reduce their original $105 million pool ask to $100 which the owners took as insulting and not worthy of a counter offer. My informal poll of people indicates they feel the whole lot of them (both owners and players) are a bunch of spoiled rich jerks. Delay in starting the season won't help either side in the battle of winning the fan support IMO.

If the owners wanted to wait out the clock they could make a nothing offer and then another. I think both sides want to settle and start the season.

To answer your last sentence...the 1200+ players represented by the union will start to weaken very fast once the checks start being missed IMO. As many pro-union forum members have pointed out....not all players are filthy rich. Keeping those 30 owners unified will be a much easier job. I want the season to start on time as much as anyone but I am not at all optimistic at this point. Like you, I hope the MLB makes what they think is a fair offer and the players agree to take it. If the owners make a reasonable attempt at compromise and the players overplay their hand we could lose the season.

You have a unique view of what are falsehoods and what is a fact. JR has displayed his loyalty to players and alumni since he came on the scene. I don't think he is evil incarnate as you apparently do. Feel free to post your in-depth analysis of how negotiations work and I will continue to post my drivel as I see fit.

I know you would prefer a forum where everyone agrees with you.

Excellent points.

Pro settlement seems right when the parties involved are millionaires and billionaires. This isn't Piggly Wiggly vs the cashiers union.

The silence is deafening.

I wish! He gets free seats in the press box...all I get is grief.

Not to worry...Spring is right around the corner.

Just attempting to put a little sunshine in your day?.

Thank you Texsox. The analogy used by 2K5 was so off the money it left me speechless.

I believe Super-2 status and this 10-105 million pool are all tied together in some ways that have been left unclear in the reporting so far. It should be clear to you that it is the owners who are working feverishly to get the season started and the union is dragging its collective feet.