poppysox

Works really well for the employees but not so well for customers and shareholders.

Not a bad framework Jack. If the bottom salary was 4 million and the top salary is 16 million we would have the parity everyone is seeking. Give a bonus pool based on WAR and a CBT of 240-250. Everyone is happy. The Trouts and Harpers would get their excessive pay by earning it in yearly bonus for production.

I agree. I think you often make some good comments whether I agree with the point you are making or not. I certainly agree that I am definitely in the minority of the ten posters that bother anymore. More importantly, you state whatever your opinion is in a way that is not the bully crap that turns off so many posters. I'll watch with interest how the boys of Summer handle this.

I didn't claim I'm an expert ever. I did claim accurately that I have been the lead negotiator in a number of negotiations with 2 teamster unions. Please understand that what you think of me could not matter less. I tried to explain to you and others that negotiations just work this way. Apparently, you think you have more experience in these matters. I guess it is possible but somehow I doubt it in your case.

Neither side is "doing anything wrong" IMO. This is just the way negotiations go. I agree that I don't think the players have anything major to gripe about but I don't care if they get some of what they want or not. The owners will obviously give a fairly substantial increase to the minimum wage and will ultimately give a bit at the CBT but not much. When the players wanted earlier free agency I said that was just posturing and it was. When the player laundry list was long and silly I definitely didn't side with the players but I always called it posturing. I hate extended playoffs so that is an area I don't agree with the owners. This stuff is not black and white so it needs to be taken into context.

Which point do you disagree with?

I might think it but I wouldn't say it.

I am usually told I'm pollyanna...always looking at the bright side of every issue. Bash the players is a new one. I guess I'm not as easygoing as you thought.

The nights not over.

How so?

What players have I bashed? This is just not true. What mistakes are you referring to? Just love to hear yourself talk don't you.

Apparently, those people have reading comprehension issues. Although I have no problem with the owners as a group...I don't feel any need to bash the players. You keep siding with the players on all issues. I've pointed out frequently that both sides claimed that parity was the prime issue. Yet neither side is talking about a minimum team cap. Why are you so easy on the players with that issue?

This is the moment we all knew it would come to. 11th-hour negotiation where both sides really need to evaluate what's important to them. I haven't given up hope.

Two Points: 1) I have stated $700 as my idea of reasonable. If it takes $800 I don't really care...but it does seem steep. 2) When contract negotiations open up very few employees have input into "how they feel." Most employees sit back and "let those guys handle it." When the paycheck doesn't happen the voice of employees starts to be heard. Remember, a very large number of players will gain nothing from these talks. It is very hard to keep those people in line.

It is your perfect right to think the players are in a great position to win this negotiation. I do not. What you consider to be my "arguments" is my honest attempt to show both sides in a fair light." This forum would sure be boring if we all had the same thoughts on these various topics. Unfortunately, some of the members use insults and name-calling to attempt to win what they think of as arguments. Some of the best posters just sit on the sidelines rather than take the disrespectful bombardment so frequently handed out by a few.

No one has tried to demean the skills of the players. The vast majority of workers don't make as much as they are worth. However, I could make a list of overplayed players easier than a list meant to reflect those who are underpaid.

The owners haven't done a thing that surprises me or is wrong IMO. They run businesses and try to hold down costs just like any company in America. The owner's wealth however they achieved it is not relevant to the discussion any more than if I said Giolito comes from a wealthy family. I do believe the players will need to consider how long they can fight the good fight. It is very hard to keep 1000+ people on board compared to 30. Also, these bottom-of-the-tier players are the ones who need spring training to attempt to earn a spot. Yes, I frequently say I don't care who wins because all I want to do is watch baseball. I won't get a bonus if the owners "win." Why is that so hard to understand? I do believe the vast majority of players are very satisfied with their situation and would never hold out because of any injustice they personally feel. These union rants about the poor working man against the tyrannical oppressor owners are just plain dishonest and are used in every union/employee negotiation. Some forum members want to pretend they are Robin Hood taking from the rich and giving to the poor. The only money that is going to change hands is fans paying higher prices.

The reading comprehension you have is just scary.

This is just a lie.

My statement said how they got their wealth was not relevant to labor relations.

What part of don't care who wins did you not understand?

Why...has a new rule just been passed? If you want to call defending a position cheering I guess I can't stop you.

"Pay for pennies"...you must be very rich.

Nobody said anything about hero-worshipping...I said it was not relevant. When people disagree both sides should be free to state their reasons if they choose to do so. The childish name-calling doesn't make someone right in their view. I've stated numerous times I don't care who "wins." I don't really think anyone wins these things. Every time I defend an owner's point of view I am called a lackey or bootlicker or whatever such drivel. Ultimately the fans will pay the cost of whatever cash changes hands. No surprise there.

I bet the players would sign up right away if they were self-made men.