cwsox

I strongly suggest that too very strongly ain't no one waiting to act this time around and I am just about to read the whole thread just read the thread - nothing yet without a warning - whitesox56789 gives good advice and that is warning enough

there is nothing here that I want to associate myself with as a Christian - nothing I ran into another pastor in line at the theatre - we both agreed that we needed to see it in self defense since it is The Issue today - he and his wife and I sat together - I don't know which one of us went numb first from shock that this movie is as unBiblical is it is - you think driving a nail through someone's hand would gross you out but like a porn film, when you've seen 18,000 blow jobs the 18,001st is boring and numbing - if you had a drinking game, had a drink every time the script actually says something from the Gospels or portrays something in a Gospel, you'd be stone sober at the end of the movie - the three of us sat and watched the credits to look for one theologian, one Biblical scholar that credit was given to and as we suspected, there was none - but they do thank the Legionnaires of Christ and that is not a positive thing if this is the Jesus you need, I am glad you got it but there is nothing here that I want to associate myself with as a Christian - nothing let this fad pass quickly I am being kind by the way, because I'd rip this movie every which way, anti-Semitic and unBiblical - that lack of Biblical fidelity surprised even me (I loved it when everyone speaks Latin when in fact that dialogue would have been in koine Greek - but I hated the nonBiblical dialogue that dominated the script placed all the blame on those hooked nosed Jews and took Rome right off the hook) I have gone to many movies that I thought I would dislike and been won over but this one was the most mind numbing sick thing - if that's what you need to love Jesus - that is scary considering Gibson's fetish with torture/violence in Mad Max and Braveheart, this still went further than I expected and had less and less meaning as it went on - only Gibson would think the whipping scene in the Gospels didn't have enough violence - count - this is almost a Bible denying movie but for fans of Anne Catherine Emmerich and stigmatas, it is a blood festival this movie has a political agenda and that was clear - it is a promo for the Pius X Society - not a good thing in my view - the anti Semitism of the 19th century mystic stigmatists was both very clear and carefully choreographed - the most antiSemitic part of thge script is the false words they put in Pilate's mouth and the attempt to whitewash Rome over the embarrassment that Rome did this was cinematically clever but disgusting there is nothing here that I want to associate myself with as a Christian - nothing I can love Jesus without the orgasms of violence - it scares me that some people need that be thankful that I am not going point by point through this movie - it is so unBiblical - reminds me of a time I looked at a flashy car and I know nithing about cars and I said to a mechanic what a cool car it was and he told me it was junk - this slow plodding sick film is not based on the Gospels - it looks like it is but it was stunning how it wasn't - there was more Gospel and truth in Kangaroo Jack BrandoFan - you may note that the suicide of Judas visually and the entire Jesus before Herod scenes are directly ripped out of Jesus Christ Superstar - and JC Superstar, Godspell, far more effective at conveying the Passion and certainly the Resurrection than this thing

my last post was very long - this will be very short. The tax exempt status is not to benefit the Chruch per se (it probably is but we like the fiction). It is because of the schools, hospitals, social service agencies, etc etc etc. Hell if Lutheran Social Services closed their doors your taxes would go up because they handle such a percentage of the social cases. Imagine Cook Country running EVERY hospital. Not only would it be more costly tax wise but imagine your medical costs sky rocketing and hospitals closing... but you want goivernemnt running everything?... so the tax exempt status is in exchange for the social good that is done by it. The way to get at a corrupt church is not by the tax status. Civil suits. Sue their f***ing asses off. Did you notice that Cardinal Law of Boston stayed and stayed and stayed - until they got to the judgment portion of the civil verdict. When they were looking at $120,000,000 payout... all of a sudden someone took notice and all of a sudden Cardinal Law was gone. I have great hopes for every civil suit out there. When the judge suggests to an archdiocese's lawyers what the real financial payout will be - then there will be reform. and jail. Next bishop who goes to jail for aiding and abetting will be the first. Might be something to ask your local prosecutor/states attorney next election time.

GOWT, yes, the Roman Catholic Church has gotten away with a hell of a lot. They did it because their system allowed bishops to do things like relocate priests with no lay control or involvment and no knowledge as well as no clergy control. In a protestant church body there would be a lot of lay people and pastors who be privy to the information - but in the RC church the bishop doesn't have to tell anyone a thing, is accountable to no one, and is reportable to no one. In a protestant church body, you may have a clergy member commit abuse once and maybe twice and that would be it - the institutional controls are there. The first question a protestant church council askes when a new pastor is recommended to them is "why did you leave your last parish." A bishop who lied about that would be out of office so fast... because they have to report to the jurisdictional council and the (usaully) annual assemblies of lay and clergy delegates and stand for re-election, usually. An Episcopal bishop doesn't run for re-election but they still have to physically report to the diocese. There was an Epsicopal bishop out here who sexually harrassed an adult female. Once it was reported: the presiding bishop made his way to Kalamazoo and other bishops got on the phone and then there was the idea of that bishop having to stand before the annual assembly and look everyone in the eye and be held accountable in public by the people he is charged with protecting - so he reisgned as fast as he could. There must be institutuonal control, accountability, someone - a lot of people - to hold the bishop responsible. And it should be the people of the Church who hold the bishop and all clergy responsible. My rage at the Roman Church for what they have done is in part very personal besides my general outrage at injustice anyway. Someone very close to me was abused as a child by a Roman priest for a period of years and he was not the only altar boy so abused. That priest eventually got found and transferred to another parish, everything hushed up. My friend is a walking version of everything that can happen to a priest abused child, he has every sympton in the book and it really has destroyed his life because he can't bring himself to get help. To see it close up... When I was an intern pastor I took our high school youth group to New Orleans for a youth conferance and we went on a bus with another church. One morning one of my high school boys - the least reputable kid in the group, the one who might most be prone to lying - told me the other pastor had made some moves on him. There we were half way to New Orleans. I made sure that none of my kids got near that guy outside of my direct line of vision, there and back. When we got back, I didn't feel that I could really make a public accusation because as I said this kid was not the type most folks would believe, I didn't see it, and who was I a student pastor to make a charge like that without proof against a long time clergy. And my internship was up and I was leaving. So I made sure a few other area pastors knew what had happened, and I said, watch the situation, watch that guy like a hawk. They nailed him a few months later. He was out of the ministry, forever barred, before the bishop's plane touched down in that town. Last time my grandson and I stayed at a motel, there at the check in, they ask to see my id, I show my drivers license, my picture in my collar is on it (it helps when you get pulled over for speeding), they look at me, they look at the kid - that those perverts destroyed the trust of so many as well as wrecked their destruction on all those children with bishops who should be jailed for aiding and abetting - when I as a pastor pick up your kid to take your kid to confirmation class, the whole world must have absolute trust, just as when I visit your spouse at home on a pastoral call and you are away - must be total trust. There are some things you do not do. I am death on clergy who abuse children or anyone. One last thing. There is a theological dimension to this and I don't want to offend anyone. In my opinion, the Catholic church believes way too much in purity and gets stupid on sexual things. I am sorry - Mary screwed. She f***ed Joseph. Before or after the conception of Jesus, she was no perpetual vigrin and the idea that she was conceived without f***ing is even a sympton of a church that has not come to reality with sex. Yes, the mother of God f***ed. (Pause for outraged Romans to scream at me.) She had other children, apart from Jesus. It is there in the Bible plain as day. But the official theology there does not allow for a sweaty, writhing Mary having orgasm, saying "oh my God Joseph give it to me deeper deeper." (Pause for second wave of outrage.) The bishops can't handle that because that would detract from some picture of purity that is preferred. By being so hung up on sex - the bishops considered these priests to have problems with "purity" and if they said the required prayers enough times they could Imitate Christ better. So they said, you screwed that 14 year old boy, go and pray for purity - and when the priest said, yes Bishop, I have prayed for purity, they assigned the priest to a new parish with a whole new set of altar biys and boys in Pro Deo and and they were so available - all trained to say "yes Father, anything you say say Father." Of course it was never a matter of purity. It was never a matter of good intentions. As angry as some Catholics might be with what I said just above - know that half of my family are Catholic and I am not antiCatholic. People very close to me are Catholic. And that includes victims. What I said above was not meant to outrage really. But sex is not bad, whether it is Mary having it or these priests needing to be allowed to beat their own cocks off instead of thinking masturbation, priests beating off, was sinful - so they found someone else, another way, to take care of it. Denying them all available outlets, people will always find another... and the price was horrendously high. One abused child was too high a price. And that fed into the whole power trip. All clergy get off (so to speak) on power trips. I know where I do, what areas it is in. Hell, I like being first in line at the potluck dinner and I like always get asked to pray like I am a special guest and I like a good seat at wedding receptions. But too much power... these priests were not accountable to their parishes either. And it wasn't that the clergy, the Roman clergy, attracted pedophiles per se but that they attracted people who ahd the image of "yes Father anything you say father" and they pictured themselves in that role. Not just clergy. A lot of people in high positions or status professions like the authority thing - that is why using your authority over another is another legal charge in sex abuse cases. If a teacher, a cop, an attorney, a judge (and I have seen that one too) uses their position of authoirty to entice others - some people get off on that aspect of it. And if the Roman clergy had a flaw, it was not that they attracted pedophiles or perverts but that they attracted people who like the authority thing and then denied them any sexual outlet so you combine the two... I deeply apologise if I offended anyone. I was as honest as I can be here because this issue has touched my life. Scream at me those who will. I spoke honestly about what I believe and I apologise to those who were offended. But I remain outraged at every abused child who got abused because of the cover up. And I feeel badly for all Roman Catholic clergy who have been considered guilty by association with those who absued these children and I really resent the image they have given the Church and its clergy.

if the bill was signed in 1992, who signed it? name the president in 1992. who negotiated it? that would be the presidents from 1981-1993. is NAFTA flawed? yes I have no idea what Blair Hull (?) is saying but my state has lost 120,000 manufacturing jobs since Jan 2001 and Ohop ahs lost 160,000 and that is not all jobsm, that is manufacturing jobs and there is Bush in Mexico saying he wants to extend NAFTA to everywhere the economic arguments that I hear in here are so rhetorical and so without all the facts that it is like to cub fans talk about spin and sloganeering - anyone who thinks the economy is healthy to day is a damned fool especially when to pay for the tax cuts to the rich Greenspan says social security needs to be cut and Bush says yeah reinstate the tax rates under Clinton for the top brackets and cut the damned deficit now Bush is the worst spender in US history bar none, and September 11th has nothing to do with it, factor that out and Bush is far and away the worst spender in US history bar none and he is too chicken s*** to even put the Iraq costs in hius 1/2 tgrillion deficit budget that is why the thinkinbg folks at the very conservative Heritage Associiation and others are appalled with Bush on economic matters - the bumper sticker I posted was just that - ha ha - what was posted in reaction to that has been bunk

GOWT, as an ordained memeber of the clergy, I am more angry about these things than you even are it makes me livid and there are a whole host of people who should be in jail now for starters I don't agree that everyone involved was a pederast to begin with or went searching for children - for many it is that they are denied every other form of available outlet and when the only thing that is available is so easily available because of all the baggage placed on the term "Father" (another gag and more sickness), then that stgarts looking good There is a Canadian movie, the Boys of St Vincent, which is excellent on the subject but it enrages me

why not in the church? I do them in the church now. A lot of clergy do, from a lot of church bodies. Youn have a right to tell a UCC congregation or a UU congregation or the Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, Disciples, and many other congregations that they cannot do something they are now doing? If a church body doesn't believe in something, then they won't do it I am sure but not every church group believes the same thing on everything. Choice.

Oh life is so good in Father Knows Best Land where fathers and more likely step fathers sexual molest their children/step children and Mom doesn't care because she's had so many men and this one is a good one and she doesn't want to lose him and you would deny a young girl her right to privacy to get medical attention? Give me a f***ing break, people who subsitute ideology and platitudes for where reality should be now since I have worked with Planned Parenthood and worked for Catholic Family Services with children who were being abused by their parents I realise I know nothing however I really will suggest that this whole "parental authority" argument is a crock of s***. You don't have the right to lock a child in the basement or keep a child in a cage. In the real world, where gets get pregannt by their stepfatehrs who beat them and even the moms beat them for being therefore sluts or a risk to the man that they want to keep, and where the cliches about getting tattoos and ear piercings aren't all that true either - but where they are, there is a difference bewteen a voluntary tatoo and an incestuous pregnancy in the life of a 14 year ol,d and at some point f*** parental rights and recognise the rights of the child as an individual to get the help and medical attention she needs in privacy

there is something to be said for that happening in reality long standing Big 10 football tradition still done by some schools (not by the classless orange colored ones). When a team comes to Michigan, our band stands in from the visitors section and plays the school song of our guest as part of the welcome opening ceremonies. If the other team brings a band, they are welcome to do a post game band show as well as the half time show and the bands march out together. The guest band always gets a good hand at halftime and M fans enjoy a good band. At NU, their custom used to be to play the guests' fight song somewhat quietly but loud enough after each guest touchdown foillowed by a louder version of the NU song. It was class that they played our song and good humor that they then played theirs. At last November's UM game at NU, NU did not play the UM song after every score but at the end of the game they did play Hail to the victors as a "salute to our guests" which was very classy and much appreciated. Being class helps keep it all fun and in perspective. Now, playing Kiss Him Goodbye as they blew up the ball was just sheer stupidity (which was itself stupidity) and ignorance on cub fans parfts. It shows that they were typical cub fans, ignorant of baseball, to play a song so totally associated with the Sox at their event. How stupid can one be.

I think he is serious and I also thank you for the impact spamming will have on the perception of the emails of any of the rest of us who try to seriously communicate with Marriotti

it will be taught to little kids? will that be in the same classroom with the same text book used to teach little kids about Ben and JLo, Britney Spears, Hooters, Average Joe, Want to Marry a Millionaire, Nick and Jessica, Dave and Carmen, Elizabeth Taylor and her 8 marriages, and everything else out that teaches the sancity of marriage when restricted to straight people?

no, it was not aired because of a orchestrated campaign by the Republican party leadership (all appointed by Bush) and congressional members and some in the White House who pressured CBS not to air it in a planned and organized campaign - it was in all the papers - I suppose you really do know the difference betweent the viewing audience of CBS and Showtime and are just being funny to suggest that showing a program on cable Showtime is the equivilant of showing it on broadcast CBS and you do know the diffeecne inr egulations between braodcast and cable so you are just funnin' there too

ok then...

Jas I missed the debate - I was out - and I really appreciate your comments. You still need to reconsider how you vote!!! but that was an excellent insightful review and your commentary was the type of sharing of one's thinking that I appreciate a lot to really understansd what people are feeling

changed as requested they played Kiss Him Goodbye? How f***ing stupid - that recurses them for two more centuries - their real fans must be pissed as hell

is someone going to post the email address so we can all write?

your signature sucks just yesterday I thought it looked so much better....

your mother is a saint, God bless her!

Because Michael Powell, Bush's appointment as head of the FCC, went to Congress and threatened all kinds of sanctions against broadcast media, that's how Bush administration is involved and of course, Powell also said censorship should be extended to cable television which is exempt from the requirements of the broadcast stations radio and television. Censorship. Be proud, all ye Bushies. Right after the Bush appointee is testifying to Congresa threatening sanctions and wanting the laws changed so they can control more. No Reagan miniseries on CBS No MoveOn comemricals during the Super Bowl hmmmmmmmmm....

sign him now KW

with you on this all the way - to me no big deal at all

yes

I never wanted us to sign him because of the questions of whether he can pitch again

oh gees the MSNBC blurp of the day? I don't see the story or the outrage here Youn know I voted for Edwards who has primary after caucus after primary - he never even campaigned here - Kerry has been everywhere and he has won by effort and work if you are looking for purity, I will doubt you will find it there is not a hint that Kerry has changed a single position because of some of the people who ahve given him money - I would bet these same folks gave money to the Bush campaign - a lot of people at that level give money to both parties in varying degrees - hell, I gave money to Dean, Edwards, Kerry, and Clark - Kerry's election would be adverse to these contributors one this one issue, unless we see a policy change, this is hardly the first time this has ever happened in humam history as far as Kerry better than Bush? Supreme Court and all judicial nominations honesty to the American people unless yiou still believe in WOMD and immininet threat the ability to work with other nations in the world and not play cowboy and not blow global good will spending the deficit - your children's inheritance not dividing Americans as Bush has done and is doing now with his constitutional amendment the new hints to cut Social Security payments intelligence national security, the PATRIOT Act, etc etc etc there are so many ways that whoever the nominee is, if it is Kerry, is far, far superior to what we have got now, and what we have got now has got to go