I will be out of this thread with this one last post.
Jugs says:
Oh?
Besides the fact that his other statements are wrong, especially on the Prime Covenant (Old Testament) here is one we can test.
What is read by Roman Catholics and mainline Protestants at worship? They read from the Common Lectionary - which has been revised to be the Revised Common lectionary.
If Jugs has a command of his facts, then if we were to look at the assigned readings for the three year cycle of readings, we would see, if Jugs were right, that the NT lessons would outweigh the OT lessons by a 2-1 margin.
Is that fact?
No. Jugs is incorrect as respectfully as I can point out.
The Roman/Mainline Protestant lessons, one source
You will note that there are four Lessons: The First from the Prime Covanant (Old Testament), the second (Psalmody) from the Psalms which is Prime Covenant (Old Testament), the third (Epistle) from, well, an epistle in the New Testament, and the fourth, the Gospel Lesson, from the New Testament.
That means that contrary to Jugs assertion, the readings are half and half, 50-50, not 2-1 as he claims. Setting aside Jugs usual insults (and I acknowledge his apology and offer my own for any offense I may have caused), he is factually incorrect.
Here is another source for the lectionaryreadings some may find of note:
lectionary for 3 years laid out
Those who use the Revised Common Lectionary are Roman Catholics and as I said mainline Protestants, i.e., the Lutherans, Anglicans (Episcopal) and Methodists, Presbyterians, UCC, etc etc etc.
For example, here is a UCC link SAMUEL which points out the Revsied Common Lectionary is © Consultation on Common Texts. The Consultation on Common texts (formerly the International Consultation of Ecumenical Texts) is comprised of Roman Catholics and church bopdies represetning almost all of the church traditions around the world.
Christians live out of the Prime Covenant (Old Testament) and always have. For a perponderance of readings, here is lectionary from the Syriac that goes back in its roots to the 2nd-3rd century of the Common Era and note the heavy preponderance of OT texts:
Syriac Lectionary
Now that speaks of the assigned lessons for Sundays and all Church festivals. There are a variety of lectionaries for the daily office. The ones that are foundational to the Church indeed follow the 4 lesson, 2 OT, 2 NT format. There are a myriad of others that follow other formats. That is just fine.
For all I get accused of, you will never find a post wherein I say someone is "ignorant of the faith." I offer where I am with at least the attempt, and I may fail to remind sometimes, that always that the vastness of the Gospel and our God is far more than any of us to contain, and that Christians will indeed differ, and I may differ strenuously at points from some or make my case the best way I can and some consider that "holier than thou" or what have you - sorry, it is my life and I apologise if it comes across that way, although I suspect the origin of that is that I make a theological case that differs from others opinions. You never hear me call another "ignorant of the faith" or some of the other slams that get tossed my way. Sometimes I am a strong advocate. Who here is not, at least at times? The only label we should apply is that sometimes many care deeply about the conversation and sometimes each one of us, sinful as we are, is guyilty of failing to respect the other. I confess my own sin and failings.
But as Jugs has made an assertion again and uses a stat to back that up, the number of OT vs NT lessons assigned for reading in Christian worship, his stats are incorrect and as he theologizes from them, well, when the foundation is sand, so the argument needs to be reconsidered, it seems to me. One can use that as a way to evaluate.
So I dispute you, Jugs, and you are wrong on the facts by which you condemn me. I do not condemn you, not in the least. You as are all of us, we are all beloved by God and live by grace.
I applaude you zeal. I disagree with much of what you say, almost all of it. Blast at me as you will. I stand before my God convinced by Scriptures and here I am, I can do no other. And for me, confessionally, the Scriptures are the source for the faith and life of the Church. Sola Scriptura.
I have often been wrong in my life and I will often wrong in the future. Big deal. I am human. I take very seriously the mandate laid down by paul Peter Waldenstrom of the Mission Covenant Church in Sweden, "where is it written." So much of what people believe the Bible says, the Bible never says at all. Here is a story that gripped me my first year in seminary and motivates me now to always go back to what the Scriptures actuaklly say rather than someone says they say:
source of story
The great theology in the church is done in people bringing their differing views to the table. It has always been something I am pleased with that my closest clergy friend, at synods, we always voted opposite of each other. I deeply respect those who can present from strength what they believe because I may then see that something I have been given to see is wrong or in need of correction or adaptation. But I will press again and again, where is it written.
Jugs, you made a factual assertion and sniped at me and you are wrong on your facts, not only there but many places elsewhere in your threads. That in and of itself means nothing. God's house has many rooms and we are all there.
I might suggest that if you leave of the direct attacks on others, your presentation would be enhanced. I also fail to see who you are convincing here with anything. As I understand it, as has been given to me by the Spirit, God is not a God of cultural wars. God stands above culture, and culture is precisely that, historically, ethnically, geographically, chronologically, economically determined. God transcends culture. So must our witness to the Gospel.
Trying to make a culture fit the precepts of a particular religious doctrine is inherently wrong. Jesus and those in Scripture who came before and after never tried to change the culture. They called us to a covennantal life with God within the culture we live (the old in but not of thing). Therein lay a huge difference in understanding by which the whole concept of "culture wars" does disturb me as a Christian of a deep and abiding faith. Differ with me. I differ with you. I can also call you "brother" in Christ. I pray you may return the favor.
We shall indeed all continue to differ and thank God that diversity within the Realm of God exists and that in God's house are many, many rooms. And when we dwell there all the days of our lives in the eschatological event to come, we shall all be surprised how wrong we all were on so much, how right others were, and how little difference it makes in the Gospel of the One who is Love Incarnate.
