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South Side Hit Men

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Posts posted by South Side Hit Men

    Can you fool yourself into positivity?

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

    In case you haven’t noticed, they just lost 10 straight, are 13 games under, haven’t won a single series in the first month, and are a laughingstock.  I’m not trying to tell anyone how to be a fan, but anyone here “waving a white flag” or “screaming the sky is falling” is doing so with ample evidence to suggest this team is dead, dysfunctional, and going nowhere fast.  If you’d like to ignore the last 10 months or so of baseball this team has played, by all means.  But maybe don’t drag fans who see the big picture and have endured enough of this team’s bullshit. 

    It’s hard, because if you are attending or listening to / watching you naturally want the players and team to play well and win. While I feel it’s better long term for the team to collapse now for long term good, it’s still hard to root against the team during games.

    I stayed away from Soxtalk and following / listening to games once the off-season netted a mediocre LFer and scumbag pitcher.

    Came back last week due to the car wreck /record breaking futility of a start, a morbid curiosity of how bad this organization has become. Once they win a series, I’m backing away again until Hahn and or Jerry are gone and I can regain hope and pleasure from following the team on a regular basis.

    I created the “Sox Greatness thread” today to celebrate the great teams and players throughout the years. It’s how I’m coping with this season and beyond, watching old games and remembering the good times over the decades I’ve followed and cheered for the Sox.

     

    Fire Rick Hahn

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:

     

    Apparently finishing in 4th place doesn't mean you had a bad year according to Jerry. 

     


    Fourth place carrot is the new second place carrot with the new 14 playoff team scam.

     

    No, playoff births with no realistic chance at a championship are not what “fans want”. Selling tickets to another failed season, 10th place pod / 14th wild card spot births is what YOU want.
     

     

    You should have bit your tongue before shoving Tony La Russa down everyone’s throat. Also, you have the wrong GM and you know it, and Hahn knows it and the entire world knows it.

     

     

    Cubs Thread 2023

    in The Diamond Club

    Posted

    Jed Hoyer and Carter Hawkins the Cubs have put together a solid team, and it has paid dividends.

    Was impressed when Hoyer answered questions honestly the past few years and the FO looked at where they were weak and stepped up accordingly.

    Sox backloaded both 2023 FA acquisitions Benintendi ($8.6M on $15M AAV deal) and Clevinger ($4.0M 2024 mutual option).

    March/April bWAR and Payroll

    Team Totals:

    • Cubs 9.5 (4th) $184.2M (11th)
    • Sox -0.7 (29th) $181.1M (13th)

    Position Players:

    • Cubs 5.3 (7th) $92.0M
    • Sox -0.3 (29th) $85.0M

    Rotation:

    • Cubs 2.9 (5th) $62.3M
    • Sox 1.6 (15th) $46.0M

    Bullpen:

    • Cubs 1.3 (12th) $16.9M
    • Sox -1.9 (29th) $44.6M

    Net Buyouts / $ Transfers:

    • Cubs $13.0M (Primarily Hayward less Hosmer $ from SD)
    • Sox $5.5M (Leury)

    Celebration of White Sox Excellence - MLB Season Leaders

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    12 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

    Top 20 pitching seasons by WAR, post deadball era:

    #5 Gossage 1975 8.2

    What’s most amazing about your list is the fact Goose Gossage not only appeared on it but ranked 5th all time while solely pitching as a reliever.

    He pitched more innings than a large number of starters will in the current era.

    Rich Gossage 1975

    Age 23 - All Star Game

    Award Voting: 6th Cy Young & 17th MVP 

    • 8.2 bWAR
    • 62 Games
    • 0 Games Started
    • 141 2/3 Innings Pitched
    • 9-8 Decisions
    • 1.84 ERA
    • 1.193 Ratio
    • 26 Saves
    • 130 K / 70 BB (15 Intentional)

    Celebration of White Sox Excellence - MLB Season Leaders

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    3 hours ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

    Wasn’t Thomas still at 1B in 1991?

    2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

    Yes

    1991 Appearances by Frank Thomas:

    • 101 Designated Hitter
    • 56 First Base

    1991 White Sox Designated Hitter Appearances:

    • 101 Frank Thomas
    • 21 Bo Jackson
    • 19 Tim Raines
    • 13 Carlton Fisk
    • 8 Dan Pasqua
    • 6 Rodney McCray & Matt Merullo
    • 3 Warren Newson & Cory Snyder
    • 2 Joey Cora & Sammy Sosa
    • 1 Mike Huff

    bWAR team totals are for bWAR earned by the entire team in a season at the listed position. Frank Thomas had the most plate appearances at Designated Hitter for the Chicago White Sox in the years he is listed.

    The Chicago White Sox never accumulated the most bWAR at First Base during Frank’s tenure with the team. In fact no position for the eight defensive hitting positions are represented since the replacement stadium was opened in 1991.

    There are links provided for each year of people have questions or are curious.

    Celebration of White Sox Excellence - MLB Season Leaders

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    The Sox are known for their shortstops, and I was surprised the White Sox never led the league at SS bWAR during any of Luke Appling and Luis Aparicio seasons.

    Not as surprised the Chicago White Sox as a team never had the best bWAR at RF, and Joe Jackson is the lone representative in LF. 

    Wilbur Wood does not get enough credit in the media and other avenues for his excellence on behalf of the White Sox over his career, including the fourth highest bWAR in White Sox history. Sox pitchers behind him include Cicotte, Pierce, Buehrle and Sale.

    • Like 1

    Celebration of White Sox Excellence - MLB Season Leaders

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted · Edited by South Side Hit Men

    While trying to find a search function for win and series streaks, I came across team position performance leaders by bWAR. I thought it would be fun on this off day when we are basking in the sun of a White Sox victory to celebrate the times the Chicago White Sox lead the league either at a position, unit or entire team. This metric celebrates star players staying on the field and also quality backups.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/team_compare.cgi?request=1&year=2023&lg=MLB&stat=WAR

    Criteria for top individual listed: All Hitting Categories (Plate Appearances at position); Innings Pitched (All Pitchers), Starts (Starting Pitchers) or Relief Appearances (Relief Pitchers). and Team bWAR leader (Team, All Position Players, Entire Outfield).

    Chicago White Sox Individual Season Leaders:

    1. (4) 2B 2B 2B T/2B Eddie Collins; 2B 2B 2B 2B Nellie Fox; P P P RP Wilbur Wood
    2. (3) LH H T/H/LF Joe Jackson; P/SP P SP Thornton Lee
    3. (2) T T/P/SP Eddie Cicotte; SS SS George Davis; C C Carlton Fisk; 3B 3B Willie Kamm; DH DH Frank Thomas

    Chicago White Sox Team (Team bWAR leader listed)

    • 1919 41.7 (Eddie Cicotte 9.6)
    • 1917 50.9 (Eddie Cicotte 11.8)
    • 1916 43.8 (Joe Jackson 7.1)
    • 1915 53.1 (Eddie Collins 9.4)

    Pitching Staff - All Pitchers

    • 2010 24.6 (John Danks 213.0 IP 5.2)
    • 2005 26.0 (Mark Buehrle 236.7 IP 4.8)
    • 1975 24.2 (Jim Kaat 303.7 IP 7.7)
    • 1973 26.5 (Wilbur Wood 359.3 IP 7.6)
    • 1972 23.8 (Wilbur Wood 376.7 IP 10.7)
    • 1971 26.1 (Wilbur Wood 334.0 IP 11.7)
    • 1968 22.9 (Joe Horlen 223.7 IP 4.0)
    • 1963 22.1 (Gary Peters 243.0 IP 5.9)
    • 1952 21.5 (Billy Pierce 255.3 IP 7.3)
    • 1941 22.6 (Thornton Lee 300.3 IP 8.6)
    • 1939 22.0 (Thornton Lee 235.0 IP 4.1)
    • 1917 26.6 (Eddie Cicotte 346.7 IP 11.8)
    • 1910 22.7 (Ed Walsh 369.7 IP 11.1)

    Pitching Staff - Starting Pitchers

    • 2006 16.5 (Freddy Garcia 33 Starts 3.9)
    • 1941 20.8 (Thornton Lee 34 Starts 8.6)
    • 1938 19.1 (Thornton Lee 30 Starts 5.5)
    • 1917 23.4 (Eddie Cicotte 35 Starts 11.8)
    • 1913 23.3 (Jim Scott 38 Starts 7.6)

    Pitching Staff - Relief Pitchers

    • 1975 12.0 (Rich Gossage 62 Relief Appearances 8.2)
    • 1968 10.9 (Wilbur Wood 86 Relief Appearances 5.4)
    • 1959 5.3 (Gerry Staley 67 Relief Appearances 2.5)
    • 1917 4.0 (Dave Danforth 41 Relief Appearances 3.3)
    • 1916 3.3 (Reb Russell 31 Relief Appearances 4.0)
    • 1915 3.5 (Red Faber 18 Relief Appearances 4.3)
    • 1907 1.4 (Doc White 11 Relief Appearances 4.3)

    Team Position Players

    • 1919 27.6 (Joe Jackson 5.8)
    • 1916 28.4 (Joe Jackson 7.1)

    Team Outfield

    • 1904 11.7 (Danny Green 4.2)

    Catchers

    • 1990 5.7 (Carlton Fisk 457 PA 4.9)
    • 1989 4.0 (Carlton Fisk 357 PA 3.3)
    • 1958 4.5 (Sherm Lollar 476 PA 3.7)
    • 1917 3.3 (Ray Schalk 328 PA 3.7)
    • 1904 3.4 (Billy Sullivan 396 PA 2.1)

    First Basemen

    • 1972 8.3 (Dick Allen 593 PA 8.6)
    • 1914 4.9 (Jack Fournier 331 PA 3.8)

    Second Basemen

    • 1965 6.2 (Don Buford 579 PA 6.9)
    • 1960 4.1 (Nellie Fox 683 PA 4.1)
    • 1959 6.1 (Nellie Fox 717 PA 6.1)
    • 1957 8.0 (Nellie Fox 718 PA 7.9)
    • 1955 5.1 (Nellie Fox 709 PA 5.1)
    • 1918 3.4 (Eddie Collins 312 PA 3.1)
    • 1917 5.0 (Eddie Collins 462 PA 5.1)
    • 1916 7.0 (Eddie Collins 532 PA 7.0)
    • 1915 9.3 (Eddie Collins 543 PA 9.4)

    Third Basemen

    • 1926 5.2 (Willie Kamm 556 PA 5.1)
    • 1923 4.7 (Willie Kamm 587 PA 4.6)

    Shortstops

    • 1964 7.7 (Ron Hansen 665 PA 7.7)
    • 1904 7.2 (George Davis 627 PA 7.2)
    • 1902 5.8 (George Davis 556 PA 5.9)

    Leftfielders

    • 1920 7.2 (Joe Jackson 410 PA 7.5)
    • 1916 6.3 (Joe Jackson 439 PA 7.1)

    Centerfielders

    • 1977 5.8 (Chet Lemon 627 PA 5.9)
    • 1926 6.3 (Johnny Mostil 677 PA 6.4)
    • 1908 5.0 (Fielder Jones 656 4.7)

    Designated Hitters

    • 2003 3.6 (Frank Thomas 545 PA 4.3)
    • 1994 3.5 (Julio Franco 447 PA 3.0)
    • 1991 5.2 (Frank Thomas 460 PA 7.0)
    • 1989 3.3 (Harold Baines 301 PA 2.6)
    • 1981 2.7 (Greg Luzinski 440 PA 2.7)

    Pinch Hitters

    • 1996 1.7 (Lyle Mouton 19 PA 1.1)
    • 1995 1.6 (Warren Newson 21 PA 0.6)
    • 1991 2.0 (Matt Merullo 45 PA -0.1)
    • 1965 2.0 (Smoky Burgess 77 PA 0.8)
    • 1957 1.9 (Ron Northey 39 PA  -)
    • Thanks 2

    Updated: Losing Streak Watch - Historical

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted · Edited by South Side Hit Men

    The First Streak ends at twenty-nine with a White Sox win on Tuesday (7-22), or will continue to thirty-one games with a loss (8-23). The remaining two series streaks depend on results of the scheduled three game series with Minnesota.

    All three streaks have been updated to include all games and series played by the Chicago White Sox since the advent of Divisional Play. If someone can provide a source and link to automatically years prior to 1969, I will included these seasons as well.

    Tony La Russa was involved in six of the eighteen streaks noted below, the most of any manager. Also of note, the 1970 White Sox played a half a season without winning a series. Would love to know if that is the longest streak in the history of MLB.

    White Sox Active Losing Streaks for Tuesday, May 2, 2023. Current streak tied for third all time.

    1. Most consecutive games without a winning streak (2+ wins) in Chicago White Sox History (1969-Current):

    • (Thirty-eight 11-27) August 7 - September 16, 1984 (74-88 Tony La Russa): [8/1 vs. Boston; 8/3-6 at Milwaukee & 8/7 at New York] 11-27 [9/17-19 at Minnesota].
    • (Thirty-eight 11-27) July 10 - August 20, 1980 (70-90 Tony La Russa): [7/6 vs. Oakland DH] 11-27 [8/21-23 vs. Toronto].
    • (Thirty 7-23) September 8 - 30, 1973 (77-85 Chuck Tanner) + April 5 - 16, 1974 (80-80 Chuck Tanner): [8/31-9/2 vs. California; 9/3-4 vs. Texas & 9/6-7 at Minnesota] 7-23 [4/17 at Oakland & 4/19 vs. Kansas City].
    • (Thirty 8-22) October 5, 2022 (81-81 Tony La Russa) + March 30 - April 29, 2023 (8-21 Pedro Grifol): [10/2 at San Diego & 10/3-4 vs. Minnesota] 8-22 [TBD].
    • (Thirty 8-22) May 17 - June 16, 1970 (56-106 Don Gutteridge): [5/11-12 at Detroit & 5/15-16 & vs. Kansas City] 8-22 [6/17 vs. New York & 6/19 at Oakland].
    • (Twenty-nine 6-23) May 23, 2007 - June 26, 2007 (72-90 Ozzie Guillen): [5/20 at Chicago & 5/21-22 vs. Oakland] 6-23 [6/25-6/28 at Tampa Bay].

    2. Most consecutive series losses in Chicago White Sox History (1969-Current): Current streak tied for first all time.

    • (Eight 6-19) April 3 - 30, 2023 (8-21 Pedro Grifol): vs. San Francisco 1-2; at Pittsburgh 1-2; at Minnesota 1-2; vs. Baltimore 1-2; vs. Philadelphia 1-2; at Tampa Bay 0-3; at Toronto 0-3; vs. Tampa Bay 1-3.
    • (Eight 5-21) May 28 - June 24, 2007 (72-90 Ozzie Guillen): at Minnesota 0-3; at Toronto 1-3; vs. New York A. L. 1-3; vs. Houston 1-2; at Philadelphia 0-3; at Pittsburgh 1-2; vs. Florida 1-2; vs. Chicago N.L. 0-3.
    • (Eight 5-21) June 1 - 28, 1987 (77-85 Jim Fregosi): at Texas 1-2; at California 1-3; at Oakland 0-3; vs. Minnesota 1-3; at Seattle 0-3; at Minnesota 1-2; vs. Seattle 1-2; vs. California 0-3.

    3. Most consecutive winless series in Chicago White Sox History (1969-Current): Current streak tied for seventh all time.

    • (Twenty-five 26-54) May 15 - August 4, 1970  (56-106 Don Gutteridge) 0-17-8: vs. Kansas City 2-2; vs. California 1-2; vs. Oakland 0-4; at Kansas City 1-2; at Boston 1-2; at Washington 1-2; at New York 1-2; at Milwaukee 0-1; vs. Boston 1-1; vs. Washington 1-3; vs. New York 1-1; at Oakland 1-3; at California 1-3; vs. Minnesota 2-2; vs. Oakland 0-3; at Minnesota 1-2; at Milwaukee 2-3; at Kansas City 1-3; vs. Detroit 0-3; vs. Baltimore 1-2; at Cleveland 1-2; at Detroit 2-2; at Baltimore 1-1; vs. Cleveland 2-2; vs. Kansas City 1-1.
    • (Fifteen 14-32) June 30 - August 20, 1980 (70-90 Tony La Russa) 0-11-4: vs. California 1-3; vs. Oakland 2-2; vs. Baltimore 1-1; vs. New York 0-3; at Texas 1-2; at Milwaukee 1-2; at Kansas City 1-3; vs. Texas 2-2; vs. Milwaukee 1-1; vs. Kansas City 1-2; at Baltimore 0-3; at Boston 1-2; at New York 1-2; vs. Boston 0-1; vs. Cleveland 1-3.
    • (Thirteen 12-27) August 7 - September 16, 1984 (74-88 Tony La Russa) 0-10-3: at New York 2-2; vs. Milwaukee 0-3; vs. Texas 1-2; vs. Toronto 1-2; at Texas 1-2; at Kansas City 1-3; at Toronto 1-1; vs. Toronto 0-1; vs. Kansas City 1-2; vs. Oakland 2-2; vs. California 1-2; at Oakland 1-2; at California 0-3.
    • (Twelve 10-20) September 24 - 29, 1996 (85-77 Terry Bevington) + April 1 - 30, 1997 (80-81 Terry Bevington) 0-7-5: vs. Kansas City 1-1; at Minnesota 1-2; at Toronto 1-1; vs. Detroit 1-2; vs. Toronto 0-2; at Detroit 1-2; at Texas 0-2; vs. Baltimore 1-1; vs. New York A.L. 1-3; at Baltimore 1-1; at New York A.L. 1-2; vs. Texas 1-1.
    • (Ten 5-23) July 3 - August 6, 2017 (67-95 Ricky Renteria) 0-9-1: at Oakland 1-2; at Colorado 1-2; vs. Seattle 0-3; vs. Los Angeles N.L. 0-2; at Kansas City 0-3; at Chicago N.L. 1-1; vs. Chicago N.L. 0-2; vs. Cleveland 1-2; vs. Toronto 1-2; at Boston 0-4.
    • (Nine 8-21) March 30 - April 30, 2023 (8-21 Pedro Grifol) 0-8-1: at Houston 2-2; vs. San Francisco 1-2; at Pittsburgh 1-2; at Minnesota 1-2; vs. Baltimore 1-2; vs. Philadelphia 1-2; at Tampa Bay 0-3; at Toronto 0-3; vs. Tampa Bay 1-3.
    • (Nine 6-22) May 25 - June 24, 2007 (72-90 Ozzie Guillen) 0-8-1: vs. Tampa Bay 1-1; at Minnesota 0-3; at Toronto 1-3; vs. New York A. L. 1-3; vs. Houston 1-2; at Philadelphia 0-3; at Pittsburgh 1-2; vs. Florida 1-2; vs. Chicago N.L. 0-3.
    • (Nine 11-20) August 11 - September 9, 1979 (73-87 Tony La Russa) 0-5-4: vs. Toronto 2-2; at Baltimore 1-2; at Boston 2-2; at Milwaukee 1-3; vs. Baltimore 0-2; vs. Boston 1-1; vs. Milwaukee 2-2; at California 1-3; at Oakland 1-3.
    • (Nine 6-14) April 20 - May 18, 1976 (64-97 Paul Richards) 0-5-4: at New York 0-2; vs. Boston 0-1; vs. Milwaukee 0-2; vs. Detroit 1-1; at Baltimore 1-1; at Detroit 1-2; at Texas 1-1; at Kansas City 1-3; vs. California 1-1.

    Robert benched mid game for not hustling and/or tweaked hammy

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    2 hours ago, hankchifan said:

    I believe his last name is Montoyo not Montoya.  He was Blue Jays manager for a while. This bench coach has been as invisible as Cairo las year.

    A survey conducted at the stadium today found 69% of White Sox players, but only 13% of Front Office Baseball Personnel knew and could name White Sox Bench Coach Charlie Montoyo.

    The same survey found 88% of White Sox players, and 59% of Front Office Baseball Personnel remembered the  fictional lead character of Scarface, Tony Montana played by Al Pacino. 100% of correct respondents also imitated Tony Montana after answering this question.

    Updated: Losing Streak Watch - Historical

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted · Edited by South Side Hit Men

    This losing streak is OVAH!

    Most games between winning streaks and two series streaks (consecutive series lost and consecutive series without a win) remain intact. I will provide an update on these three streaks before the game on Tuesday.

    Savor the next two days White Sox Fans.

    Longest losing streaks in Chicago White Sox History (1901-Current):

    • (Fifteen) September 27 - October 1, 1967 + April 10 - 25, 1968:
      • 1967 (89-73 Eddie Stanky) (5 Games): at Kansas City (2); vs. Washington (3).
      • 1968 (67-95 Eddie Stanky) (10 Games): vs. Cleveland (1); at Detroit (2); at Cleveland (1); at Boston (2); vs. Detroit (3); at Minnesota (1).
    • (Thirteen) August 9 - 26, 1924 (66-87 Johnny Evers): vs. Washington (2); at Boston (4); at New York (3); at Washington (3); at Philadelphia (1).
    • (Twelve) September 10 - 22, 1927 (70-83 Ray Schalk): at Washington (2); at Philadelphia (3); at New York; (5); at Boston (2).
    • (Eleven)  - Three
      • July 7 - 18, 1956 (85-69 Marty Marion): vs. Detroit (3); at Boston (3); at New York (2); at Baltimore (3).
      • September 14 - 24, 1921 (62-92 Kid Gleason): at New York (1); at Boston (4); at Washington (3); at Philadelphia (3).
      • July 9 - 20, 1910 (68-85 Hugh Duffy): at New York (3); at Boston (5); at Philadelphia (3).
    • (Ten) - Seven
      • April 19 - 29, 2023 (7-21 Pedro Grifol): vs. Philadelphia (1); at Tampa Bay (3); at Toronto (3); vs. Tampa Bay (3).
      • July 26 - August 4, 2013 (63-99 Robin Ventura): vs. Kansas City (3); at Cleveland (4); at Detroit (3).
      • June 11 - 20, 1976 (64-97 Paul Richards): at Cleveland (4); vs. Baltimore (2); vs. New York (4).
      • May 26 - June 4, 1938 (65-83 Jimmy Dykes): vs. Philadelphia (1); vs. Detroit (3); at Cleveland (2); at Washington (3); at Philadelphia (1).
      • September 17 - 26, 1934 (53-99 Jimmy Dykes): vs. Philadelphia (5); vs. Cleveland (3); at Detroit (2).
      • August 7 - 19, 1932 (49-102 Lew Fonseca): vs. Philadelphia (2); vs. Saint Louis (4); at Washington (4).
      • September 14 - 22, 1931 (56-97 Donie Bush): at Boston (3); at Philadelphia (3); at Washington (4).

    4/30- Rays vs Sox VII, 1:10

    in 2023 Season in Review

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, wegner said:

    The lack of talent is not his fault, but I'm leaning in to the fire Pedro camp.

    I'm fine with anything at some point, with the caveat that Hahn is the first to go and someone competent makes this decision and new hire.

    And Gonzalez drops a ball in the rain. The hits just keep on coming.

     

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