greg775

s*** I'd take Hudson in the lineup every day as a hitter over Rios, Juan and Dunn. The man can hit.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 09:44 PM) They know the expectations and what they are capable of. There are rewards for A's and less so for B's. But like was stated before there are times in life when excellence is expected and other where it's fun. Excelling in school (or not) is a life changer. Whether the Sox have a good team and miss the playoffs is not. At least you are not one of those parents who goes to the teacher to b**** when their precious youngster gets a B. No wonder anybody with a brain refuses to be a teacher with overzealous parents of today. I still think a B can be a decent grade. I'd give anything for the Sox to deserve a B right now. I still think our team should be quicker with the trigger - fire Ozzie and KW now! Our team has totally underacheved with this payroll. Hudson kicking our ass tonight is another huge embarrassment since we gave him away.

How predictable was tonight? Hudson kicks our ass, minus our one true hitting pro, Paulie.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 05:56 PM) Ouch. Yeah I hope you don't give the kiddies too much grief for getting a B. A 'B' is not so bad.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 07:07 PM) You're seriously using a nickname as a reason? And now you're changing from "decent" to "good". With Dayan's offensive potential, if he provides decent defense with a cannon arm that will be sufficient I'll just shut up now and wait and see when he comes up, but I do picture Dayan being lost out in the green outfield pastures. CQ has proven you can learn to play the outfield. I was in favor of leaving him at third.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 07:05 PM) Can you imagine a speedy outfielder having no range and not knowing how to catch a ball? Pierre stinks obviously, but KW doesn't have the balls to make the move apparently. A good GM would make the move and fire Ozzie if Ozzie b****es about it.

QUOTE (kapzk @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 07:02 PM) Sigh. only if every1 were a glimpse of their former selves. Imagine if we had Rios putting up Matt Kemp-like #s, every1 would be rolling on the ground. What would have been. Didn't Rios have a couple decent seasons, then finally got paid and has been s*** since? Rios is vastly overrated.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 07:01 PM) Have you personally seen him play? If not you're just making a complete guess. I am guessing, but can you envision a guy named "Tank" being a good defender? I'm still all for bringing him up now.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 03:01 PM) I wonder how many fans on this board were alive during the 70s and 80s when the White Sox won 1 division title in 20 years and usually finished in 3rd or 4th place with 70 something wins. Of the ones that were alive, I wonder if they can really get back in touch with what it felt like to be a fan of this team during that era, and put it in context. Do people realize the same White Sox organization has averaged 84 wins per season over the past 21 years, and 86 wins under the KW/OG regime? We're basically tied fourth in total wins since 1990 in the AL, behind New York, Boston and Oakland (Cleveland is about even with us, slightly ahead for now). During the OG era, I think we're 5th overall. During the past three "disappointing" years, we've averaged a "disappointing" 85 wins. Yes, our payroll has increased. Yes, the expectations have been higher recently. Yes, there have been some depressing results at times, particularly in our own division. Is it because we are agonizingly close? I hope that's the conclusion. Because if it's not, I have news for you: this is not a s*** organization. This organization is one of the best in the American League, year in and year out. You'd never know it from reading this board, though. It is astounding to me that there is absolutely no faith and no patience in this organization, this coach and this general manager. We've won 88+ games in 4 of the past six seasons. How many other teams have won 88+ games in four of the past six seasons? Four: Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Phillies. That's it. Not your precious Twins, not the big-spending, bumbling big-market Mets, not the Dodgers of lore, not the Cubs. 25 of 30 teams haven't done it. The White Sox have. And yet, everyone is seemingly as frustrated as if they have waited 20 years for a divisional title. This team has won a World Series recently, under this management's watch, and yet you would never know it from the faithlessness around here. Really, what gives? Sure, you can blather on about Guillen's lack of in-game managerial skills while conveniently overlooking his other intangibles (his ability to deflect media heat from his players, his ability to keep his team motivated (even allegedly cantankerous ones like AJP and Jurassic Carl), his ability to be hands-off when nobody would dare notice it. You can talk about KW's missed opportunities and poor trades and acquisitions, and ignore the stability, identity and pride he has provided. I wonder if people even recall how controversial the Konerko re-signing was around here. You need to look no further than 12 miles north if you want to know how difficult it is to win in this game consistently, even with a large payroll. Whether or not you believe in curses, that team has fielded young talent, experienced managers, veteran leaders. They can't win s*** to save their damned lives. I can cite 5 more examples of teams who spent it all seemingly correctly and can't win s*** anyway (The Mets come to mind, among others). The 2011 White Sox may have been disappointing thus far, but I can't really see them playing much worse, and I can't pin this on the organization, nor have I lost faith or patience. I will not blame OG/KW for Adam Dunn and Alex Rios having the WORST slumps of their respective careers, for Peavy's unforeseen injury problems, for Beckham turning from can't miss to Crede-lite, for Juan Pierre forgetting how to field. I will not blame this organization for a host of veteran relievers blowing the f*** up. I will not blame this organization for John Danks' uncharacteristic, bewildering numbers. Nearly everything has gone wrong at times, and we are 33-37 and 5.5 out. This is still a very talented team that's representative of a very good organization. I really wish other people believed that too. I think your post is excellent. I just think this season there's a lot of frustration for me because the team started so poorly after playing similarly miserable baseball after the all-star break last year. The team has pissed away so many games in heartwrenching fashion the past two seasons, probably starting with the Bobby failures, that it's been tough to see the big picture. I know all teams get shutout and blow games and a lot of teams are dead if they are behind in the seventh inning, but it seems like the Sox lead the majors in all these bad categories. But you make a good 'big picture' point that the organization has done OK.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 07:41 PM) It's difficult to go from minor league stats or anything like that, but he's not, as far as I know, known to be slow. He also definitely has a shotgun for an arm, which is a nice thing to have on a guy if his range isn't the best. If he has a Bo Jackson-type arm, that would be helpful. It might even add some excitement to the Cell.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 07:35 PM) what kills me is that the starting pitching is so damn solid. IMO it can compete with anyone. The offensive ineptitude is mind-blowing and staggering. Ozzie is the only manager I've ever heard say something like "shuffling the lineup makes people think you're panicking and losing confidence." I can't think of another manager who wouldn't do everything in their power to spark a lineup. I would agree with Ozzie if this were April or even mid-May, but good lord...he's cutting off his nose to spite his face. Excellent post IMO.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 07:39 PM) Why not? Cause he's huge. Is he known for having any range at all? if he is OK, I'll eat my words.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 07:36 PM) Is Hudson even cleared to play tonight? I figured he would be a little sore from all the dick riding that he has gotten from people at Soxtalk. Is Jackson ready to pitch tonight? For the same reason? Many people on here still love him as well.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 04:22 PM) Oh, please. I pointed out the oppo hits because there's a huge % of folks here who think he's the all-or-nothing, pull-happy, strikeout-king type. He isn't. He's a high-average, line drive machine with a great approach. And he's quickly learning that a lot of pitchers would rather deal with the next guy in the lineup and taking his walks. Kid'll have growing pains and plenty of bad days. And that will still be WORLDS better than what we're getting from our LF today. Yeah but also get ready for some butcher work in the outfield, similar to Juan, maybe even worse. You can't convince me the Tank is going to be a decent defender.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 07:33 PM) greg775 has spoken And I also gave a reason. You think Chicago baseball has a history of excellence? Ozzie is the guy who brought us a title. Those who think the Sox won in spite of him are nuts.

What a storybook matchup (for fans). If Hudson throws a no hitter, or one hitter or even a shutout ... my god I perish the thought. Somehow we had no problem with Gio, however. And didn't we also rock Garland?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 05:10 PM) He's almost definitely not going to be back next year. I honestly think Ozzie will be their 2012 manager, and he'll do very well there. Glad you recognize this. This indeed will happen and he'll win more WS the rest of his career than we will in the same span. And he'll have way more playoff appearances. Why? This is Chicago baseball. It was a miracle he and the Sox won the WS, a miracle that I'll take, obviously.

QUOTE (since56 @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 01:52 PM) Ozzie will probably leave Pierre in and have an outfield of Pierre,Rios and Dunn. OUCH! Adam Dunn in the outfield is a laughable thought. You just know he's going to cost us a game or two at first or in the outfield. KW, what's so difficult about realizing we've been shut out 10 times and the lineup needs more punch? If Oz won't go along, fire him. Juan is the odd man out so Viciedo should be up and fast. If Rios ever got his head out of his ass, it'd be a decent offensive outfield of Dayan, Rios and CQ, thought I'd rather see it be Dayan, Lilly/Rios splitting time, and CQ.

QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 07:46 AM) You know that sinking feeling every time Juan Pierre steps to the plate, and you know the absolute best outcome is a bloop single? Now close your eyes and imagine that instead of Juan Pierre, it's Dayan stepping into the box with his quietly dangerous stance. He gets a fastball, and it looks like he's taking the pitch. Then all of a sudden you see lighting fast bat speed knock a line drive double to RF. This could and should be a common reality in our lives, and the fact it isn't is utterly disturbing. I also want Dayan, but he'll make his share of outs.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 16, 2011 -> 08:50 PM) 8 hits, 10 baserunners, and no runs. That's pretty f***ing impressive. This team isn't going to win a thing until it can beat every team in the division with some sort of consistency. You can look at the bright side all you want to, but that's pretty much the fact of the matter. They have some mental roadblock when playing the Twins, and they can't beat them. I don't normally condone it, but I think they need to start a brawl with the Twins and kick the ever loving s*** out of them to prove that they are actually superior and stronger. As of right now, it's all a mentality, and that starts with the manager. Cmon. Do you really believe this? A brawl? They'll laugh after getting their own punches in and beat us anyway. This is baseball. Beat them on the field (which we can't do) or go to the bar and get drunk after the game. The Twins own us. I fully expect us to lose every series to them this year and win 4 games total if we're lucky. At this point, I can't imagine how we're going to beat them even once.

And oh yes. Adam Dunn, you f***ing suck. Oh, he got a hit and a walk, he's coming around. Rios you suck. Gordon, get your head out of your ass. Pierre you suck. Nick Blackburn is just such a good pitcher.

1-0 loss? What a joke this team is against the Central. Break.It.Up. Now. At least fire Ozzie and Kenny. This team is not a division title contender. s*** we might lose all 19 to Minnie this year. It's that bad right now.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 16, 2011 -> 05:36 AM) Kazmir's FB tops out at like 87. This is worse than '06 Freddy Garcia who lost 4-5 MPH off his FB in one offseason. You don't want this. Cooper ain't that good. He's only 27. We need pitching depth in our organization since we have nobody in the minors who can pitch. If he's free, pick him up.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jun 16, 2011 -> 03:50 AM) Greg, you run away too much when people make legit arguments against your statements. Seriously, Steve called you out in the gamethread and I was not shocked at all to see that you never replied to it. Once someone makes a legit reason for why you're wrong you just run to another thread and post the exact same thing. QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 16, 2011 -> 03:57 AM) Not to mention both of those guys actually have legitimate skills when they're right. Therefore you can foresee some upside. Juan had one baseball skill prior to this year. Speed. And that's all but gone. 1.) I'll go back up there and try to see what Steve said and respond. 2.) See, Fathom, this is what I mean. These are the kind of statements I read about Rios/Dunn. For the record, I never wanted Juan. I hate the slappy hitters with no pop and guys with weak arms. For KW to not bring up Viciedo is a crime, especially with our team still going nowhere at this time. They obviously are not going to DFA Pierre and that means not bringing up Dayan because they obviously think they owe it to Pierre to play him. They don't want Dayan to sit n rot.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 16, 2011 -> 04:43 AM) I worry about you They boo Dunn at the Cell, but you really think Dunn is that unpopular on here? I don't. People still like him. And when Rios gets criticized, somebody always comes back with how he should be hitting leadoff which is a non sequitir if I ever saw one considering his production.