FoxForce2

We're way OT on this, but just to finish my angle on this point... I do see what you're saying and have for quite some time. The sheer volume of non-American players competing for openings in professional American baseball alone would improve the talent base in MLB; not to mention a dramatic upswing in interest in baseball playing internationally. I asserted that projecting Koufax into the 21st Century would likely result in something like a peak Kershaw level of performance. A study of applied demographics doesn't do anything to change my mind. Obviously the talent level that SK faced is not that of what Kershaw has seen - but that fact alone does nothing to mitigate the valuation of SK's projected performance based on talent, aptitude and ability - i.e. a realized ceiling of performance. If Koufax was a 10 (ability) vs 5 (level of competition) and Kershaw were a 10 vs 8, there is no reason to assume that Koufax's 10 would decrease strictly due to the higher competition level. Mt Everest has not become shorter mountain due to the fact that it is now a tourist climb and while the massive influx of climbers and support staff has made the mountain a somewhat safer challenge, attempting Everest remains an extremely dangerous proposition. I left Secretariat off because of the Belmont run. Regardless of the current state of horse racing, American Pharoah is still a first class horse and is something of a reverse example of the talent level faced by an individual. Citation was running among a population, at least an order of magnitude, re: volume, greater than that of even Secretariat. You may have already seen this on Koufax (from Bill James 2017): https://www.billjamesonline.com/koufax_and_wes_ferrell/

Maybe you missed the part in my post that postulated that you'd bring a 1958 Koufax forward to 2010 and then commence his development from there. But then according to your reasoning, that Ted Williams guy (21st Century updated), wouldn't make much of an impact in today's game either. Or a Willie Mays... or Hank Aaron... So how well would Man O' War or Citation run against American Pharoah? How well would Sugar Ray Robinson do against today's middleweights? My point still stands - you can't judge/gauge a player outside of his era with much validity. But then there's always MLB The Show 21... p.s. Just taking size into account, I'd say Pedro Martinez at 5' 11' 170 lbs would do alright against today's lineups.

Maybe Keuchel could get a knuckler going? Couldn't hurt.

His IP and CG were highest end even in his time. And then there was his longevity - at 42 he was deep in the running for a Cy Young.

To go very far at all in trying to compare players from different eras isn't much more than spitballing. An interesting comparison might be that of 1963-1966 Koufax and peak Kershaw (whom Koufax worked with and at least somewhat mentored.) Koufax only had two pitches, granted they were immaculate pitches, but still only two which wouldn't cut it in today's game. But if you were to put SK into a hot tub time machine in 1958 and tub-port him into the year 2010, develop a 3rd and 4th pitch, get him all the advantages of modern medicine and training, 5th day starts etc. and you'd likely have something like peak Kershaw -with a hotter 4-seam and deeper curve... and that with a superior talent in big game/high pressure situations. On a point like this I like to refer to Ty Cobb's gapped bat grip - LOL! And what am I doing going OT on this thread anyway? "You've heard the one about the guy that could throw a ball through a car-wash and not get the ball wet? Well, Koufax was actually that guy." Pete Rose (para) ...and no, I'm not Jewish.

Obviously a different time with different dynamics in the game but still: https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/spahnwa01.shtml

At this point, even if Keuch gets it together, he's looking more and more like a glorified opener. i.e. I don't know how regularly he can go through a good lineup twice.

Doesn't Kimbrel have some form of no-trade or selective-trade clause in the contract to be optioned?

Where's Al Lopez when you need him?

...and has a grand total of 2/3 season in American pro baseball under his belt. IMO he does have the high ceiling that has been touted. Obviously, counting on him to be a difference maker in 2022 is an absurd proposition - but I still see him as making appearances mid-late season.

I'm thinking Cespedes gets Sheets like looks in the second half next year.

The only angle that would work on picking up Kimbrel's option would be eating $7-8 mil in a trade and getting 1-2 very good prospects in the deal. But I don't know that even works. Not many American League teams are going to be interested and then there is the MLB-Players negotiations and you're still eating $7-8 mil for prospects.

That's what I see. He does have the AS naming and Boras going for him - but I don't see anyone going beyond the 2nd year option on his shoulder. alone. Geez I hate the Tomahawk chop/chant at Atlanta, Fine for FSU and CFB - but this is baseball damnit.

For me it's Boomer! Sooner!, the NFL playoffs (the only time I'm interested in the NFL) and the Hot Stove League.

IOW go back into the tank.

What? You mean you think pitching two fast-ball throwing rookies against a talented and deep fastball hitting lineup in an elimination game is a bad idea?

Maybe Hernandez is Cleveland's spy to sabotage the Sox.

Combine high #1-#2 starter like Morton and a real ACE like Glasnow and you've really got something. Obviously, you can't see Glasnow going down, but if they'd had a Morton they could have at least mitigated the long season drop off in starter quality.

Tampa Bay screwed up in letting Morton go. He wanted to stay with them and was willing to edge his contact perks and angles to make deal work. As often as TB front office gets things right - on this one they blew it.

Sat through the end credits of a movie lately? "This is a work of fiction. Any similarities to persons living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental." ...is there for a reason.

Well, you're a Global Moderator here so i guess you can say what you want. However, the use of quotes strongly implies a verbatim statement attributed to an individual,even if qualified by an 'IF' clause in a preceding sentence. Has Kimbrel made any verifiable, actual statements that would reasonably be considered to resemble the fictitious 'quote' you've manufactured? Satire and lampoon of public figures, within reasonable limits is fair game - i.e. bringing the principle of unpopular speech into the issue (the movie The People vs Larry Flynt actually depicts this process fairly well.) Is your projection to be considered satire? When you then posit the projection as fact: "You’d be ok with that? You’re on Kimbrel’s side?" You're giving up the idea of a lampoon altogether. You're treating the fictitious quote as representative of Kimbrel's attitude where there is no evidence that this is a fact. My point being that, even on a fan based message board, using quotes in this way doesn't simply violate the mechanics of Grammar, it might very well border on Libel. FWIW - I thought bringing in Kimbrel was a questionable decision, especially considering the other needs of the club. Have a great Sox day!

3 up - 3 down. This was the script as I recall.

I hate it. when Eloy starts playing like Willie Mays he can do that stuff. Until then - just make the catch.

Two Viennas - steamed buns - ketchup on one - mustard the other - onions. I literally lived on these for school lunches along Madison Street in the mid 1960's. Oh and greasy fries too.

Tepera is a no-brainer of a signee. Need an entire pen of his clones.