LDF

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 07:44 PM) Why saddle yourself to a guy that hasn't played a full season or looked All-Star caliber in about 4 years? Butler is a keeper. He's on a long term team friendly contract. He's an all-star quality player. What you get back has no guarantee of being on that level. And the Bulls don't need more "ok" players. They need all-star guys. Giving up on the only one you have would be dumb. I think Rose has some value, particularly to teams that need a marketable star. I wonder if you could "give" him away to the Lakers. let me ask this question, do you think butler will buy in for Fred and his way of coaching?? was butler one of those that talked to the press about fred?? the answer is, who knows, but he is signed into a contract. that being said, maybe, just maybe it will be better to build a team around the way fred coach with smart draft picks and let them grow together. the main uncertainty is, can fa's, good fa's sign and help???

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 04:51 PM) Realistically I think that's the window, maybe 3 years if they can get lucky. Next year they're still stuck with Rose and there are very few FA's out there that would significantly improve the team. I think the rebuild begins when/if Rose is traded or is allowed to walk. Problem is, after that, who's the big marquee FA? Westbrook maybe? But he could go anywhere, and there's the possibility he stays in OKC with Durant. Anyone else is just a slight upgrade, not a championship contender move. i do not know about this... the fa signing part. whether rose leaves or is traded or is still on the team, i do not know if the bulls will attract any notable Fa's. i think the players around the league is fully aware on the dysfunctional setup of the bulls FO and a rookie or less then experience coach. would any really sign on for that??

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 06:49 PM) Yes it does have to do with LaRoche. Garcia would be DHing vs LHP only if LaRoche didn't retire. also maybe sub with one of the corners OF'ers. i agree. but when laroche quit on the team, no one is going to convince me there were not options in the fa market. i am not talking about players who will be outstanding players, but player who can be a upgrade. even an upgrade for that 25th man spot. there were laboring on deciding on whom it was going to be.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 06:48 PM) That is because there are none, and you know it. ok, if you say so.... you are always right.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 06:43 PM) No. I do think you wait until maybe end of April, but at that point if he looks like Avi, he's Avi and it's time to make an improvement. Look outside and inside. I think outside isn't realistic until June or July though, and meanwhile I think you can do better. So you go with Coats or Ishikawa for May and June, then see what the outside world holds for options. Having some improvement for a couple months is not a small thing, and remember too that there may not BE any outside help available at the deadline. So you want internal options as, at least, a backup plan. yes and i agree, there will be no team willing to help, unless it is for a salary dump. but the options are internal. as many have mention.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 06:42 PM) Who are these fa's? you are trying to prove me wrong, look for them yourself.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 06:40 PM) This is 100% in direct contradiction to your statement that the White Sox weren't spending money because they wanted to keep it all for the ownership. They were absolutely willing to spend for a good player, and you are acknowledging this to be true right here by saying that you don't care about it. You finally admitting that is all I need to see. yeah they have a whole 123 +/- invested and then 111 +/- .... i am not talking about 150 mil and yes, they have the money.

lol, I didn't think you actually had a basis in reality for your rant. You just proved my point. You can be as bitter and angry as you like, but it would be nice if it at least some realism to it. bitter at the cheapness of the owners, yes as a fan i am pissed about that. No, in the middle of March, there was no magic player that the White Sox were going to find to replace Avi Garcia because there weren't any. The only players available were more Avi Garcia's who might be better, but were probably just going to be a different smell of garbage. you are creative in your slant or rant esp against me. you answered this whole thing with the bold. In reality, no one wanted to break camp with Garcia as a starter, including Jerry, Kenny, and Rick, and how do you know this, b/c you come up with a scenario.... pretty much as i did and you are saying i am wrong.... haha which is why they spent a good chunk of the winter trying to replace him. They made competitive to leading offers to at least Gordon, Cespedes, and Fowler as clear upgrades. Even after that they still went out and signed Austin Jackson and used him to push Garcia to the bench. It wasn't about being cheap and keeping money. All you have to do to know that is a lie is what the team did over the winter that directly contradicts that. you keep moving the goal line to fit your argument into a thought you are imagining. again, i am not talking about cespy or any other improvements, i am talking about finishing the job up to 2 weeks ago when players were avial. By the time that LaRoche walked out on his team, every single decent player was gone. Again, this is reality. If you can prove me wrong, please feel free to do so with some actual names. again, i care rats arse on laroche. this has nothing to do with him.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 06:37 PM) Oh, so they were supposed to go out and just BUY a DH in March with that 13 million dollars. i see now. ahhh you really can't see. there were other fa's who was out there in march, let alone 2 wks ago who will be an upgrade to avi.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 06:29 PM) Show me this player they didn't sign or trade for and show me that they didn't make any attempt to do either. All you do is make up scenarios to carry on your grudge against the front office Here are some facts, they made what is believed to be the highest bid for Alex Gordon which he turned down to stay with the Royals. They were in on Cespedes until his asking price got completely ridiculous and the Mets gave him 30 million for one season. But please, let me know how they made no attempt to improve the team at the DH/outfield position You can't even name one ok let me filp this, show me players outside the FA that they went out to try to trade for that person, outside the ones they traded for already. ref to cespy and that group, i still don't care about that, and i posted that several times. i still don't care. why?? b/c the money could have been in better use to fix the whole team, instead of having a 155 mil salary. btw, pls look up where i ever endorse spending money for cerp, gordon etc..... i never did. there is one person on this board who knows what i am talking about. lets see if he pops in looney, murph to put a name on a couple of minor upgrades than what avi is.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 06:28 PM) Who, and who were you willing to give up to get them? even players who were still fa's or became fa's.. you were the one who started on naming the names of the upgrades, go and do yourself your own homework. i was defending my post of ranting on the owners. and btw, do not try to chg the subject. i never said anything of a trade.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 05:26 PM) Who was out there they could have gotten in the middle of March that was actually a good hitter, and not a potential marginal upgrade that would have been worth trading something for? I didn't see anyone out there who didn't have their own gigantic flaws in their game. Who did you see that was available? there were players and even if they were marginal upgrades, they are still an upgrade of what the sox have as dh now

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 06:19 PM) dont let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory. and yes, you are wrong wite ok lets talk about those facts, a dh, who the sox tried to trade, a player who was suppose to be hurt. a player in avi, who was going to be a sub, if anything to backup a dh, who happens to quit. time to address the situation when this dh quit and they could have signed any other player, and to boot, they had an additional salary to use. another hitter who could have been the 25th man. so tell me, why wasn't any thing done???? show me where i am wrong!

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 05:11 PM) My god you are a broken record. am i wrong??? so deal with it, and if needed do not reply to my post. wite

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 04:51 PM) Realistically I think that's the window, maybe 3 years if they can get lucky. Next year they're still stuck with Rose and there are very few FA's out there that would significantly improve the team. I think the rebuild begins when/if Rose is traded or is allowed to walk. Problem is, after that, who's the big marquee FA? Westbrook maybe? But he could go anywhere, and there's the possibility he stays in OKC with Durant. Anyone else is just a slight upgrade, not a championship contender move. i think you are pretty close. understanding, the bull will still have rose on the season, next yr. trade what they can and for draft picks and/or young players. in other words, build a new core. regulate rose as a backup in the planning, if he is healthy he starts in not, have someone else who will be the bulls future. do not plan plays for rose. get and make smart draft pick, as in rebuilding. need a new young core, who will not be influence with the negativity of yrs past excuses. build or let the young group build around Fred H....

QUOTE (raBBit @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 06:05 PM) Uh... sorry, i meant that fans thru the yrs have always waited to see something improve during the season and the players on the field.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 05:55 PM) So, do we agree that there's nothing that can be done about Avi right now? And that maybe waiting until the trade deadline, when a replacement player might actually be available, is the better option? That's pretty much where I stand, though I'm apparently a little more optimistic about Avi getting over the .700 OPS hump by then. well for me, at least you have faith. remember all those yrs when the rally call was, - wait til next yr. well that next yr is now, and i have no faith in the owners.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 05:58 PM) That's what they were telling me last year. Now those same guys have switched their feelings on Garcia. In time, you will too. and how many yrs is the faithful fans will hear that ....

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 05:36 PM) lets not play devils advocate because this is nonsense and why not, they have history on their side to show how they never finished what they started. the sox owners always went to the cheapest route to finish the team. there times the sox could have won more than 1Ws if they would have invested. the same thing now, this season. they could have gotten that extra hitter. but they didn't they instead went with the reclamation or the other prospect who needed a chance. instead, the sox will need to roll the dice with this weak link to this team. and still all for the savings of money and lining their pockets. all the b/s the owners spouted about wanting a championship team is all b/s.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 04:20 PM) so how many more years will be the bulls be hot garbage? 5 minimum? too bad there is no way to ask this of the owners group.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 05:24 PM) If the Sox agreed with this, he wouldn't be in the lineup five days a week. Ishikawa or Davidson would be on the 25-man roster instead. I agree that Avi needs to take a big step forward this year, and that's what the Sox are giving him the opportunity to do. If he doesn't show them something this year, he'll probably be dealt for an inconsequential player in the offseason. But I have no problem with the Sox giving a 24-year-old more time to prove himself, particularly when their options are limited. but i am not advocating moving him now, b/c i assume they will not get anything viable to replace him. but going into june and he is still struggling, this FO really need to acknowlege that there is other interest that are at stack, higher priorities are in play.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 05:03 PM) Yeah I agree with this. He has no redeeming qualities. He's a horrible defender and he doesn't hit enough to DH. He's one of the 5 worst players in all of baseball. I don't expect the experiment to last long honestly. and i will play devil advocate, "and as long as the ownership decides to acknowledge it, nothing will ever get down,"

ok with the draft around the corner, i really do not follow any playoff, unless a chi team in it. so the draft picks i really like is - ~ Ben Simmons-pf or any other position. a real talent here ~ Jaylen Brown - sg/sf, i would like to see him at a sg, this is the last of the top 10. imo ~ Dejounte Murray sg/pg, i can see this player at pg. ~ this is the pick i like 2nd to simmons pick. - Diamond Stone, pf/c he is a monster with an attitude any one will help.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 03:25 PM) Gar basically hid behind Pax who had to give all the answers. The couple times Gar spoke it was weak. Paxson on the other hand, I continue to think he is a good and bright basketball mind and the tone was, I'm going to fix it which I presume means Gar takes a lesser role and Pax starts calling more shots. I still don't see how Gar sticks around based upon some of the leaks and the pure decision he made around axing Thibs in the first place. Pax had some quotes which essentially were slaps in the face for Hoiberg. Essentially saying, he needs to figure out how to actually coach and hold players accountable and be focused in the details, etc. He obviously had strong tones for Rose and Butler as well, with focus on Rose being he needs to play defense and for Jimmy the fact that leaders don't lead in the press and talk about leading, they just lead. Pax also blasted the team's conditioning, will, etc. ok with my ranting against gar, but the FO needs to accept the blame as well. esp with the draft coming.... they will need to make some hard sacrificing in the personnel they will put on the floor. there is no saving some, for a hope to make the playoff and more. a total rebuild is needed.

QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 14, 2016 -> 04:19 PM) I just don't get it. Basically their summary is that the team failed because of Jimmy/Rose... But their roster construction was insane. A logjam of 5 competent front court players with disparate styles that struggled to play together, and a paper thin backcourt with very little difference in style that struggled to execute pace. Remove the one element that held them together (defense) and "whoa, can't believe that didn't work!" this is not against your pov, but i like to further ask, What was last yr excuse