SI1020

A few years ago, the Sox won a game in which they were no-hit. we beat the Yankees in that game, didn't we ? In the mid 90s - final was 4-0 Sox and we didn't have a hit is what I recall. I believe it was 4-0 against the Yanks in 1990. Andy Hawkins pitched for them. Jim Leyritz and somebody else for them butchered fly balls helping the Sox win the game.

After the initial shock wears off don't allow your life to talespin. Relax, take a deep breath, go out and have an ass kicking good time and then plot your future moves. Do NOT let negativity, anger, self pity, etc set on. I can't impress this enough. Lastly remember, it happens at least once to just about everybody.

Amen.

Well shame on me. I liked the article and it gave me a little fire for the upcoming series which I had been dreading because of the way this year is turning out. I can relate to everything Cowley wrote. I even have some experience in the "stepchild" department.

I'm about to read this to a certain cub fan I know.

I still have my blue and white ribbons. I have absolutely no sentimentality or warm feelings toward the high school and two colleges I graduated from. I still get misty eyed when thinking about Haugan and our graduating class.

I know I'm not adding anything new here. Can't argue against BF here, point by point it's very accurate. It really is unbelievable, this team is its own worst enemy. Is there a psychiatrist in the house?

May they have long and successful careers. We need a talent infusion baaaaad.

If I'm remembering my Ken Burns baseball documentary correctly there were a surprising number of white stars including Lou Gehrig and Dizzy Dean who were perfectly willing to allow Negro League players in to MLB. Please, I'm not trying to "whitewash" anything, I'm sure that many if not most of the players of that era were not comfortable with the idea. However there was a lot of "barnstorming" in the 1930's and Gehrig, Dean and other stars of that era often faced off against the best of the Negro League. Dizzy Dean in his prime lost a game 7 of a big series to Satchel Paige and openly admitted that Paige was better then anybody pitching in MLB. Even further back Babe Ruth had been quoted by more than one source as declaring that John Henry Lloyd was the greatest baseball player in the world. Honus Wagner also heaped praise on Lloyd who was a great SS and prolific hitter. As CW pointed out Cap Anson had a lot to do with the color ban being firmly established in the 19th century. It's a historical tragedy, baseball could have been like boxing, which was not a perfectly color blind sport, but did have black champions like Jack Johnson (heavyweight) and Joe Gans (lightweight) early in the 20th century.

I labeled this guy a "can't miss" when I first saw him. Can't believe all the troubles he's had. I think he's worth another try.

Frazier Thomas was my after school buddy. I really liked Klutch Kargo. As for comics how about Bizarro and Gil Thorp?

The whole 1988 episode has caused some of the worst brawls on White Sox message boards. Some folks express thanks to JR for keeping the team in Chicago. I thank a lifelong cub fan ex gov Jim Thompson for saving them. By the way, MLB in Florida didn't turn out so hot did it?

Unless of course some idiot runs on to the field at the Cell. Then we get all the publicity we could ever want.

Haugan Elementary School, Albany Park Chicago June 1964. It was a great day for me and I hope yours was a great day for you. Congrats. Don't forget to graduate from high school too, and then college or technical school. Make lots of dough and save as much as you can. The economy always has its ups and downs.

This was truly one of the nicest guys ever in MLB. A real fine player too. He was on the team when I first started following baseball and the White Sox. In 1957 the Sox had a major brawl in a game with the Yanks. Enos Slaughter taunted Doby with racial slurs during the altercation and was promptly stomped by Walt "Moose" Dropo of the Sox. Sometimes there is true justice in life. A year earlier Doby, Sherm Lollar and Billy Pierce were featured in a Tribune article after the Sox swept the Yanks in Comiskey. Everyone talks about the ugliness Jackie Robinson had to face, but it happened to Doby too. Robinson was a fierce competitor with a combative nature, Doby did not seem to have that type of armor to protect himself. Bill Veeck liked and admired Doby and expressed some measure of guilt for hiring Doby to manage the Sox after firing Bob Lemon in mid season 1978. Doby was dismissed after the season and Veeck felt that this was the wrong team at the wrong time for Doby. RIP Larry Doby, wish there were more like him in the game today.

Woo Hoo! Against a good team too!

Have fun everybody. I'm going to try to stay out of this.

that is an amazingly common misperception - these are the same people who gave you the Patroit Act and believe in every type of law to legislate what you do in private in your bedroom and what medical procedures you can have and what the limits are you can be paid when your doctor commits malpractice Not surprizing the repubican chair of the Senate judicary committee would propose this That's why the traditional "crossfire" arguments on message boards frustrate the s*** out of me. Terms like "liberal" and "conservative" are often useless. Patrick Leahy is one of my most unfavorite senators. Guess what? On this issue he makes much more sense than Hatch. The problem is that the technology has badly overtaken the laws ability to enforce copyrights. Hatch has copyrights and obviously is mad. Remember on another thread I said everyone wants the government to be their hammer. This is a perfect example. As far as labeling people goes I think current events have made the labels obselete. I'm not a liberal, but a century or two ago I might qualify as a "classical liberal". I think on economic issues you can put people on the left or the right. On many other issues, people are either authoritarian or they're not. On this issue Hatch is.

Same from me to all. JimH thanks for jogging my memory on the Denver thing. May the White Sox always remain on the south side of Chicago.

Five winning seasons in the last 30. No consecutive winning seasons since 1967-1972.

Actually, I have read in a couple of sources that Veeck was secretly negotiating to sell to a buyer who was going to move the team to Denver after 1980. Marvin Davis, I believe it was. He and Veeck were going to be equal partners. The deal fell through, according to Davis, because the American League would not have approved any sale that would have moved the team out of Chicago. Heather look at the Hornets nest you stirred. I heard the Veeck Denver story but have never commented on it because my recollection is not as strong and I'm not sold on the stories credibility. I will say the AL was perfectly willing to see the White Sox moved. It came close to happening in the late 60's and mid 70's.

Going to try to get down to the nitty gritty on this one. It was the son who got into trouble IIRC. I'll get back to you on this one although it may be a day or two.

I'm going to have to disagree here. I remember there being a lot of controversy when DeBartolo was a front runner to buy the team. Much of it stemmed not from his alleged organized crime connections, but the fact that he had professed a desire in the past to buy a team and move it to New Orleans and play in the Superdome. Mike Royko wrote a scathing article denoucing EDB. Sometime later he completely recanted, and wrote an article supporting EDB. I never met Royko, but was told he was very close friends with an Italian American gentleman who convinced him that EDB was on the up and up. The DeBartolo family did well with the 49ers and Penguins. EDB was an up from the streets guy who loved to gamble and loved to win. He loved to go head to head with the WASP types in business and he dearly wanted all of his ventures to do well, especially his sports teams. He opened his pocketbook and the Penguins, the doormat of the NHL finally won a cup. His son EDB Jr is the one who made a hash of things. I don't believe he would have moved the White Sox. I believe he would have spent money out the wazoo to try to win, just like he did with the 49ers and Penguins. I once got into a discussion with a guy on another site about EDB Sr. I did some research and of course I don't have access to FBI files, but I did find out that some of EDB's construction sites were bombed in 1950's Youngstown.

Again I'm going by memory here. If I make an error or two somebody who knows better please correct me. Bill Veeck had chronic health problems, partly due to a serious injury suffered in WWII. In late 1980 he was ready to sell again. He wanted to sell the team to Edward DeBartolo Sr. EDB had made a fortune in construction, mainly building malls all over the country. He came from Youngstown, Ohio a place known as "bombtown USA" in the 50's and 60's. For those of you from Chicago, Cicero is Mayberry RFD compared to Youngstown. Bowie Kuhn who was commisioner of Baseball at the time conducted a quiet rumor campaign against EDB, you know the M word. EDB need 11 votes of approval from AL owners to buy the Sox. The first vote was 8-6 in favor. The second vote was 11-3 against, only Veeck, Oakland and Cleveland voting for EDB. The Reinsdorf-Einhorn group eventually bought the team. 1981 begins their era.

This is how I remember it. In 1975, the Sox were tanking again and the Allyn that owned the team ( I always get John and Arthur confused) was ready to sell. Once again there was talk of moving the team. Bill Veeck rode to the rescue and bought the team for the 1976 season. He hired Paul Richards and they wore those cute little shorts for some of the home games. The team stunk once again. I remember taking my wife to a game or two while she was pregnant with our first child. I converted her to rooting for the White Sox as long as they didn't play her beloved Pirates. I used to watch Sox games in that time period at Egans a nice little tavern in Edgewater and Bruno Rotis on Sheridan Road in Rogers Park near the Loyola campus. Both places catered to Sox fans then. I believe you are correct CW about the one Allyn brother getting majority control in 70 to save the team for Chicago. Seattle and Toronto entered the American League in 1977. MLB was keen to settle with the city of Seattle, so for a long while the AL had 14 teams to the NLs 12. Sometime in late 1975 or early 1976 Sports Illustrated I believe did a big story on Veeck reacquiring the White Sox. He expressed his contempt for the hierarchy of the AL and considered it a sacrilege that they were attempting to move the White Sox. He moved heaven and earth to get the necessary funds to buy the team. The AL paid him back by refusing to allow him to sell the team to Edward DeBartolo Sr when he was unloading the team in late 80, early 81. You're right CW the Jefferson Park L was a godsend to Sox fans in that part of town. I rode the Howard straight down to Comiskey. Day games, night games, never had a problem and I'm not the least bit intimidating, I look like the proverbial soft touch.