SI1020

When the PA announcer at the Penguins game last nite said Kordell would be the starter the fans broke into a loud chorus of boos. How did you come by your love for the Stillers way up north where you are?

The Hawks have won 3 Stanley Cups. In 1934,1938 and 1961. They lost in the finals in 1931,1944,1962,1965,1971,1973 and 1992. They were the hottest ticket in Chicago in the 60's and early 70's.

I forgot to add, screw the cubs. May they never win a WS!

Chisoxfn brought it up..... But the hatred and attitude doesn't come from messageboards. It comes from dealing with these nitwits everyday at work, school, media, bars, etc everyday during the summer. Sox fans see the second rate treatment we get from the media (remember 2000 baseball sportscasts and newpaper reports?), bars (go into any bar..... chances are the sCrUBS monopolize an 80% chunk of the baseball wall), and casual baseball fans who, in this city, care more about the ballpark the team plays in than who is more deserving of fan attention. Not that the Sox Organization is without fault. I've been following this team because of the way my dad brought me up for as long as I can remember. But this team is one or two more fan alienating moves away from me boycotting Comiskey until JR sells the team and KW resigns, goes to another bush league organization, or is fired. After following this team for 28 years, I've had about an ass full of this s***! Buy that man a drink! If we ever meet the first one's on me. You're preaching to the choir with me here CubKilla!

I'm 1/2. My maternal grandparents were born near Ascoli Piceno in the region called Marche in Central Italy. My grandmother spoke six languages including fluent Italian. There's not a day goes by that I don't think about her. She was quite the character! I'm a short squatty bodied 1/2 Italian who spends a lot of time in the weight room so big guys like Wells and cub fans don't mess with me LOL!

Don't underestimate us short little squatty body guys. Man, if I was 6 foot 4 and just got my ass kicked by a guy 9 inches shorter and 90 pounds lighter I'd lie and say I just wrestled a grizzly at the Bronx Zoo.

At least we know you want the Sox to win more than anything else. If I ever win that lottery in Spain (El Gordo) that is the world's richest, then I buy the Sox and hire you!

Yes, Manchester Hall is still standing and running well. I never lived there though, living in Haynie for the first two years (yes waaaaaaaaaay out in Tri Towers). Definitely the most rowdy dorm here on the lovely ISU campus (man is it quite the dorm of rape as well now a'days). Manchester is only 1 1/2 blocks away from my dorm, which happens to be the tallest college dorm in the world, Watterson Towers. How did you know about Manchester? I lived there for a semester a loooooong time ago.

A small handful, Nuke? Maybe you'd like to look at the numbers: * 2/3 of the Columbian military has been indicted for human rights violations (torture and murder of small children, labor activists, church workers) and they were SOA graduates. * Colonel Uribe of Columbia, an SOA grad, is one of the most notorious human rights abusers authorizing the fumagation to crops of people opposing military dictatorships along with numerous kidnappings and murders that have taken place in Columbia. * Hugo Banzer Suarez of Bolivia who privatized the water supply so over 70% of the people couldn't afford water. When they peacefully protested, he assigned snipers and the military to kill protesters. * 20 out of the 26 officers indicted for the EL Mazote massacre of 900 villagers (over 1/2 under age 12...tell me again how those are Marxist rebels Nuke...I'd like to hear your explanation) * the Jesuit massacre of 6 Jesuit priests, their housekeeper and the housekeeper's daughter (trained by the US...the Atacotl battallion was the responsible party and had just come back 24 hrs. fresh from US training when they did this)...tell me Nuke, was the housekeeper's daughter a communist fighter also? a teenage girl?! Nuke, if you actually believe that we're killing leftist guerrillas, for the most part you're absolutely incorrect. In Columbia, for example, the paramilitaries are responsible for over 90% of the human rights violations occuring there according to Amnesty International. Yes, groups like the FARQ are minority groups when coming to having any power in committing any sort of human rights abuses. They are nowhere near as prolific in the murder of innocents as SOA graduates are. The SOA has caused the death of thousands of victims throughout Central and South America. If you believe it is Marxist that the people be able to democratically elect their government, that they can live without fear of being "disappeared" for being a labor activist for shorter hours and higher wages, if they want enough money to feed their family and have a basic life...Peasants should be able to farm their land without corporations like United Fruit owning over 1/2 their country. They peacefully try to buy it back at the same price UF was buying. UF's response? Send in the Marine Corps to decimate the farmers. Nuke, people are dying. Churchwomen, lay people, farmers, innocent little f***ing kids! I could give two pieces of monkey s*** about their politics...nobody should have to worry about being murdered, kidnapped or disappeared for standing up against military oppression or fighting for basic human rights and dignity! YOU GET YOUR STATS FROM AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL. THERES A REALLY CREDIBLE f***ING SOURCE. THATS THE SAME BUNCH OF IDIOTS THAT YELL THE SKY IS FALLING EVERY TIME SOME CRIMINAL GETS EXECUTED. WHEN IT COMES TO THIS SORT OF THING THESE ASSHOLES MAKE CHICKEN LITTLE LOOK LEVEL HEADED. Wow, who would expect Nuke to use *data* or *facts* to back up his claims?? Show me the data that makes the US government not responsible for the training and usage of that training in Central and South America, Nuke. Since you brought up capital punishment, show me that cap. punishment is even a deterrant to crime. I'd really like to see that data, Nukey Nuke. I have tried real real real hard to stay out of this. As usual there are a bunch of historical inaccuracies here. Regarding capital punishment, I would suggest anyone who wants to educate themselves on this matter read Rodger Lane's great criminological book Murder in America. It is about far more than the title, it gives a history of crime dating back to the Middle Ages, which had a very high violent crime rate. In any case, it very effectively if subtly makes the case that capital punishment helped greatly reduce violent crime rates in Western Nations from the Renaissance to the late 19th Century. Capital punishment is a very touchy subject and there are many intelligent debaters on both sides of this issue. I would suggest to all of you though, if a close member of your family or someone close to you is murdered in cold blood it entirely changes your perspective on the matter. There is no "healing process" or "closure" in such matters. I hate those phony cliches!!! The pain lasts a lifetime and only thorugh a deep kind of faith is one able to "cope" with such a loss. Regarding the Latin American controversy on this thread. The US is in a difficult position here. These nations are our neighbors, and what happens to them greatly affects us. Unfortunately most of these countries have never risen above political and social barbarism. I know this is not politically correct but it is true nonetheless. There are very few "good guys" in that part of the world. The US has a right and a duty to look out for its own interests. Unfortunately this part of the world is very chaotic and unpristine. There have been many atrocities committed by the "right" in Central and South America. There is no getting around that fact. However, the left is not composed of "choir" boys and girls either. It is hard for me to imagine a more violent political group than the leftist "Shining Path" of Peru. Believe me, Osama Bin Laden is a "moderate" compared to these guys. Who tamed them? Alberto Fujimori who turned out to be as corrupt as the next Latin American leader. See what I mean? There are no "good guys" in that part of the world. Fujimori "saved" his nation from total chaos, but was unable due to his own personal weakness and the general decadent political climate in that part of the world to take his nation on to the next step. The best thing that could happen to Latin America is a sustained economic boom, the kind the US had from 1946-1973. Slowly, but surely then the political and social problems will take care of themselves.

Every who reads or posts here knows I'm not a bleeding heart anything. I'm trying really hard to avoid politics but I do want to say that we will definitely hearing from young Ligue again, and it won't be when he wins the Nobel Prize in Physics.

I'm wondering if Ncorgbl is a big fan of the Beach Boys. I see he's got his own "Surfer Girl".

Yes, yes, yes. I am still a virgin, and I will be 21 in 1 1/2 months. I have chosen to live a chaste life until married, and then if/when I get married, I will only share my love with the partner I have tied the vow to. When I was a young man just about every young lady I dated shared your sentiments exactly. At least they did when they dated me! On a more serious note I hope you stick to your plan. By the way is the dorm called Manchester still standing at ISU?

Seems interesting. All I was trying to do was to get people to read and research and not just be emotional about things. I've sworn off politics on baseball message boards. I'm pretty close to swearing off politics on all message boards.

I like Rose but understand he is having problems with Cartwright. Would hate to see him go. Man those glory days of the 90's seem so long ago.

I'm not doing any politics here anymore so I say to you give em hell.

See Baggio's post, he is very accurate in his assessment. Bulger has a quick release but he is more of a touch passer than a guy with the real great arm IMO. He went to Central Catholic here in Pittsburgh. The school is a sports powerhouse in SW PA and includes Jack Twyman a 1950's NBA star and Dan Marino among their alumni.

I've seen Bulger play since Grade School. His dad played briefly in the NFL and he has two sisters that are great basketball players, potential WNBA players. I ain't exagerrating. I always thought he'd do well if he got a real shot to QB in the NFL. It's gonna be another long afternoon for the Bears.

I was going to post something will Lenin Stalin and Co but Zach beat me to it. If you know him tell him I'm still laughing. Have to think of something else.

I'm so mad I can't see straight. This confirms my worst suspicions about KW and JR. I know a lot of people may not have liked Corg but many many more did. And like him or not this guy is just about the best most loyal White Sox fan in the history of the franchise. He loves the team and has followed them through thick and thin since the 1950's. Think about that!!! Those of you in Chi give Ncorgbl my best (I'm HoboKing on that forum). Now I'm going to do my best to get myself banned too. I should be more mature and set the good example for the young posters at Soxnet but f***KENNY!

I don't know why I keep trying, I guess I can't help myself. You can be a Democrat or a liberal. I live in a city that is 5-1 Democrat but if I showed some of these arguments that are made here people would laugh, even the Democrats. First of all taxes. Jason sometimes when you cut taxes you get more money, not less. Just like sometimes when a merchant cuts prices they end up with more sales, not less. Federal taxes were cut in the 1920's,1960's (under a Democrat President) and in the 1980's under Reagan. In each case federal revenues boomed and so did the economy. The timing of Bush's tax cuts were bad in that 9-11 has put the economy in a kind of suspended animation. When the economy revs up again revenues will increase just like it did the other 3 times. Jason I think you also mentioned something about Keynesian economics earlier in this long discussion. John Maynard Keynes was the premier economist of the day in the 30's and 40's. He believed in government spending to prime a slumping economy. He was a favorite of DEMOCRATS in the US. His policies were not used by Reagan and are seen as ineffective and out of date by most of today's economic experts, whether they are Democrats or Republicans. Sideshow the figures I quoted are from the US OMB (Office of Management and Budget) not something I made up. You may not like the military and you may think that too much money is spent on the military. That is your right as an American citizen. How many countries do you think allow you to do that? The fact is on a percentage basis much less is spent on the military than was spent previously. Even if Bush gets all the money he wants Defense will go from about 15% of the total to about 17 or 18%, which is still low by historical standards. Cerb you were very critical toward the south. For many years, the south lagged behind the rest of the country in almost every way. There are still large parts of the south that remain "backward" if you use measurements like educational levels and income per household. However, much of the south has changed. If you go to metropolitan areas like Atlanta, Dallas, Charlotte and Nashville to name a few they are booming and prospering. Didn't they teach you about the "sun belt" in school? The country has moved to the southern and western states since the end of WWII. It is the northern arc from Maine to Minnesota that is in decline, although some states are doing better than others. I grew up in Chicago and still love the place, but the fact is it just isn't as big or as important as it was say in 1950 or 1960. New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin all lost seats in the House because their populations are not growing as fast as some other states. The States that gained seats in Congress include Georgia, Texas, and North Carolina states in the old Confederacy. The "South" is actually not so backward anymore. It is the North that is fading. Cerb, Sideshow and other young people here who tilt to the left I don't "know" any of you any more than you "know" me. I wish you nothing but the best life has to offer. I would never tell you to march down to your local Board of Elections and register and vote Republican. Politics like religion is very personal and everyone has to make up their own mind. You know what? You actually get to do that in this country! What I would suggest that you guys not only "question" authority but question yourselves also. You're getting a lot of bad, incomplete, and incorrect information. You are proving my point that today's schools are pathetic when it comes to educating the young. It takes more than shouting down the opposing side and calling them "assholes", "right wingers" or whatever. You may decide after really reading and studying to be just as left wing as you are now. But at least you will be informed. I know Democrats and left wingers that are brilliant and really hard to debate. I will quit for now. I'll probably just get called some names, my main aim is to get you guys to think, not just shoot from the hip with a lot of anger and not much else. Good luck, if you were standing in front of me I'd offer a handshake.

Before they lock this out and maybe throw me out too just let me say: If you go to yahoo and type in "Federal Budget" it is amazing what you can come up with. The links are too numerous to mention. In 1800 55% of the Federal Budget was spent on defense. In 1850 it was 43%. In 1900 37%. In 1950 it was 32%. In 2000 it was 16%. In 1900 the Fed Gov spent 10 billion on social welfare programs in 1950 that number had risen to 130 billion by 1995 it was up to 1.01 trillion. In 1900 Domestic Federal Spending was 0.8% of the GDP (Gross Disposable Product) by 1999 it was up to 18.2% In 1900 Americans paid $1,900 per household in taxes. By 1999 it was $30,000. This number is adjusted for inflation. The figures for the federal budget in 2001 show 20% spent on Medicare, 14% on interest on the Debt, 30% on SS, 31% on "other" which is mostly domestic transfer payments and only 15% on defense. I know this won't change anybody's mind if it's already made up.

Actually the vast majority of the federal budget goes to various social programs and the percentage spent on the military is much lower than it was forty years ago. You aren't going to teach history or government are you? You appear to know very little about either. Also, are they teaching you in school to do research and to know how to make an argument for every side of an issue, even those you disagree with? By the way, in plain English, what does "no threat waiting for us to attack" mean?

REALITY WILL HIT THESE PEOPLE LIKE A FREIGHT TRAIN. THAT IS, UNLESS, THEIR RICH PARENTS CONTINUE TO SUBSIDIZE THEM & TAKE CARE OF THEIR EVERY NEED. I THINK THESE PEOPLE PROTEST & PURSUE ALL THESE SILLY CAUSES CAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO & NEED SOMETHING TO HELP MAKE THEM FEEL IMPORTANT. PATHETIC REALLY. NUKE, tell me when church workers and nuns are being killed for no reason in Central America thanks to the training WE gave the perps. Tell me when we carpet bomb the people of Iraq to get 1 dictator, how is that beneficial? Tell me, please, how we claimed we would get Osama at any cost...yet 1 year later, nothing has happened in apprehending him or any top members of Al Qaeda. You conservatives fail to address the liberal critiques to your policies and instead make attacks on our character as being 'rich'...but last time I checked, the Republicans were the party of the rich. =) Cubkilla, be afraid. I'm gonna be a teacher. I get to help mold the minds of numerous children for months on end. A mind molded with Socratic thought to question authority and to figure out things for themselves instead of becoming a conservative dittohead like yourself and Nuke. You don't want to question authority, you want to be the unquestioned authority. Guess what? Most students with a three digit IQ will see through your bulls*** and hit you with questions that you will feel most uncomfortable with. I would love to see how you handle it.

Tell me if I am wrong, but Saddam didn't have anything to do with the 9/11 attacks. Show me evidence where Saddam did. I agree with you that Saddam is a goddamn f***twit and needs to be taken care of. He needed to be taken care of 11 years ago, when we at least had a legitimate interest to strike him. article: http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020902&s=editors asks a lot of questions about why the US should invade Iraq and many of these questions need to be addressed. What happened to us going after Osama bin Laden after what he did to us on 9/11? Why is Bush now having us focus on Saddam who didn't do anything with 9/11? Simple fact...Bush and the Cold War Cronie Corp. can't find Osama and they don't wanna seem like they have egg all over their face for not capturing many high ranking members of Al Qaeda. Baggio, if you want to talk screaming for more money. The Republicans will need millions (over $40 million) to fight this war in Iraq. Are you willing to give them money to fight this? Are you willing to let them tax you for this, since we are already in a massive deficit budget. (Keynsian economics didn't work for Reagan in the 80s and it still doesn't work now...trickle down economics doesn't work). Thousands of Iraqi civilians die every day due to starvation because of US imposed embargos. We do have that blood on our hands. How can we in good conscience go in and bomb these same civilians who we murder every day? http://www.progressive.org/0901/anth0498.html is an article by a former member of the US state department, WIlliam Blum. He gives direct evidence of US corporations selling these weapons of mass destruction and biological weapons during the 1980s when he was our warm cuddly dictator in the war against Iran. We gladly took his money knowing he was a coldhearted bloodthirsty dictator, but that didn't stop us from selling him those weapons did it? And now, "The chickens have come home to roost." We sell him the weapons, then turn around and blame him for having them! How can we be justified in doing that? I'd rather see President Bush deal with our slumping economy, a society where we spend double our amount of money on fast food than higher education in the past few years, and the problems with factory farming. http://www.madcowboy.com Howard Lyman, a 4th gen. cattle rancher who is vegan because he knows from firsthand experience that our current status of factory animal farming cannot be sustained by our environment. I've tried to be civil to you but this post is bulls*** on top of bulls***. First of all there is good evidence that hijacker Mohammed Atta met with Iraqi intelligence in Prague the Czech Republic in the spring of 2000. Second of all Keynesian economic is not "trickle down" economics and Reagan was not a proponent of "Keynesian" economics anyway, he preferred "Supply Side" economics and was greatly influenced by economists Laffer and Friedman. How many Iraquis suffer or die each day is a matter of debate and liberals pull statistics out of a hat on a daily basis regarding this. In any case, remove Hussein and the suffering will stop. He is the cause, not Americans or George Bush. Your best point here concerns the aid given Iraq in the 1980's. They were at the time in a war with Iran who was considered the greater enemy. Remember the hostage crisis or weren't you born yet? Regarding money spent on education. There is more money spent per capita on education in this country than ever before. And guess what? American kids are dumber than ever at least if you pay attention to standardized test scores. In Pennsylvania where I live we are in the top ten states in spending and in the bottom ten in results. You want to learn? Do it the hard way. Read, read and read some more. When you are at school or at work or just socializing with friends or family be like a sponge and absorb everything. There are no shortcuts and you are going to make many mistakes, but in the end it will be worth it. Don't expect President Bush to pass a bill that spends billions more on education and all of a sudden everyone turns into Albert Einstein. Concerning the vegan farmer. Screw him. I'll eat a steak for him, with fries a tossed salad and maybe a nice cold beer. You posted all these links, now do a little research on the environmental movement. They have been consistently wrong on just about everything. About our food supply. We have the best in the world and you can get just about any kind of meat and produce made to your specifications at prices that people in other countries would die of jealousy for. I'm ususally the nicest of nice people on the net and in person but today I have seen more bulls*** posted on the web than ever before, and I have lost my customary good nature.

Me too. I've never been as worried about the franchise as I am now. I weathered the storm in 68-70, but this defies description. I was brutally criticized on other boards when I posted that I really believed JR wanted to move the team in 88, it was not just a ploy. I'm wondering if this is not all planned so that JR can say look I tried but I can't compete with the cubs, I have to move. The alternative is that total stupidity and incompetence has taken hold. Either way it's not good. In any case when folks like you, HSC, Ncorgbl, GUG and other long time Sox fanatics are ready to mutiny then something is terribly WRONG!