SI1020

This is an interesting post, although I don't quite agree with it. When George Wallace ran for President as an Independent in 1968 he said "There's not a dimes worth of difference" between the two parties. Pat Buchanan said similar things when he bolted the GOP to be the Reform Party Candidate in 2000. Remember Pat? He's the one that many of those dumb old farts in Florida voted for by mistake in 2000. Hey, I want to be governed by people who can't even read a damn ballot! Anyway, before I stray, you are right that money plays too big a part in politics. Money in the sense that there are quid pro quos. You are also right if you think that too many politicians are gutless pukes. As the resident old timer on this board let me say that despite this I truly believe that issues play more important a part in election campaigns than they ever did. I grew up in Chicago under Mayor Daley I and I now live in an area with a powerful Democratic party. The area is also dying. I hardly, if ever vote for any Democrats, I've seen their handiwork and it repels me. Just like I said in another thread that when I was young I saw the college left in action and said screw that. If I can't stand the Republican Party candidate then I go third party, usually Liberterian. As far as your prediction for 2004 goes, anything can happen with the economy the war on terror or who knows what. If I was a Dem big shot I'd be plenty worried because right now GWB looks like he'll be tough to beat under any circumstances.

They didn't do well in Illinois because of the s***head in the statehouse named George Ryan. Also, the northern tier "Rust Belt" states have been trending more Democratic since 1992. If you want something positive to look at the Republicans have a slight 10-9 edge in US House members from Illinois. The newly elected governor Rod B is a not so slick machine pol from Chicago and he will more likely than not screw things up big time.

I was going to tell him about Whitney Young but I didn't think he'd listen because he's not changing his mind about anything no matter what.

As a secondary mathematics education major, I thought I'd pipe in here. A major source for the paucity of truly competent teachers is that many universities allow students studying to be teachers to follow the easy route to graduation by providing them with very low expectations. The first thing we can do to improve the educational system here in this country is to improve the manner of which teachers are educated. I attend Illinois State University, which ranks #2 on the list of Teacher Education programs in the entire nation, and I even see flaws here. I have taken several teaching methods courses, and they are too basic! THIS is a problem! One of the problems with teacher education today is that the schools spend most of their time teaching BS politically correct "methods" classes at the expense of real content. I wish you luck in your math program. This country needs effective math teachers badly. American kids rank among the worlds best in the grammar and middle school years on math tests. By the end of High School they rank among the worlds worst. I know that is case with me. I was an A math student in grammar school but have always had difficulty with understanding the "language" of higher math. Algebra and Geometry were a disaster for me in high school and college. When I went back to school as an adult I put off math to the very end and with the help of a very good tutor (my wife) was able to pull off two fairly complicated math classes including a Masters level statistics class. Numbers were always a snap for me. When I was a little kid I could compute batting averages in my head but you know as well as I that Algebra, Geometry and Trig are altogether different. Many people have trouble "deciphering" the language of higher math. It's like looking at a foreign language you've never read or spoken. The math teacher that can accomplish this is worth his or her weight in gold IMO. Also, most math books and math teachers have the personality of a table top. Your internet personality is great, also your sense of humor. I'm sure you're just as dynamic in real life. So I wish you luck, you have no idea what a noble service you will provide if you can effectively teach math.

In my youth I was a college dropout. My coming of age was in the days of student protests and the "Days of Rage". It was at that time I got totally turned off by left wing politics, having seen it first hand. When I was in my thirties I decided to give college another try, to make up for my misspent youth. I got one, then two, then three degrees and a teaching certificate. However I aborted my teaching career because of garbage attitudes like the ones I see on this board. I was going to teach history, but discovered that today's youth know's diddly squat about any kind of history let alone their own. Teacher's unions like that just fine, so the whole situation was and is just not for me. If you think Rockefeller is a "right wing Republican" then your knowledge is superficial at best. Both political parties are multifacted and defy easy ready made descriptions. Nobody ever told you "politics makes strange bedfellows?" Do you really think that the original John D Rockefeller has much in common with ex Governor Nelson Rockefeller or ex Governor Winthrop Rockefeller or the current WV senator Jay Rockefeller who is as liberal as liberal can be? God what kind of garbage are young people ingesting. No critical thought whatsoever, just knee jerk visceral reaction. I have 3 twenty something kids so I'm not against young people. The fact is you are the worst educated group of youth in the 20th/21st century. It's not your fault, the educational establishment is to blame. If you want to be liberal fine. I read and refer to many liberals like EJ Dionne, Thomas L Friedman, David Broder among others. None of them demonizes the opposition and they all have a much deeper understanding of history and politics than to say "kill the Rockefellers" and think they are saying something bright and well informed.

What's up with Hawk attendance? It looks like it's sinking into the sunset.

I thought it had something to do with the "new" math.

Yes they are and as they say in Brooklyn, it hoits, it really hoits. Thankfully they don't play the Steelers this year, you've no idea what grief that would bring me.

You know I study many things and it has come to my attention that there is an undiscovered tribe deep deep in the Amazon jungle that plays a game that is very similar to baseball. KW go find them!

You know they have to paying attention to this. You know they have to wonder what it all means for them. You know they have to be thinking about playing for a REAL organization. Come on people. When the great KW is finished putting his "stamp" on this team what in the world is going to be left?

Williams is an idiot. Even worse than that he's an arrogant idiot who thinks he's smart. Williams does not want any players who have "character" or any of his other assorted bulls*** lines. He wants bland vanilla "yes" men who will be his toadies. People who call him a "control" freak have no idea how right they are. This franchise is looking more like a train wreck about to happen and no amount of sugarcoating or pretending will make it go away.

I am one of the few that never liked Reinsdorf dating back to before he officially bought the Sox. I've been scanning the message boards and when I see real tried and true diehards like you, Ncorgbl and GUG up in arms and I must say I am alarmed. KW is nuts and unless JR is taking leave of his senses he HAS to know what is going on. Which leads me to ask the question is this all planned? I mean even the most mentally challenged can see that they are driving this bus not into a ditch but right off the cliff.

It's a real s***ty list without Maz and Bobby Thomson. It's just another popularity contest. Most of those voting don't know jack about the history of the game.

Computers don't do justice sometimes. Just let me say LMAO and leave it go at that. Great sense of humor. Even more impressed because you're young.

For those of you who think some of us are wrong for not liking JR. He has a history dating back to before he owned the Sox. Take the time to look things up and then come to your own conclusions. Nobody wants him to spend money like a boob ( see Hicks in Texas). Just act like he really wants to win and don't patronize Sox fans. We're not Cubs fans and won't be so easily fooled by owners who want to play us like a violin.

Rooting for the Sox is an experience hard to describe. I mean look at the history of the team. It takes really loyal, knowledgeable folk to stay in it for the long run. Quitting the Sox is like quitting your religion. OK, if you're not religious it's like quitting your family or something else important. Besides that, if you live in Chicago or you grew up there like I did, who the hell wants to root for that other team? JR is an SOB, arrogant and vindictive. Chicago has had several owners in several sports like him. The Sox just have to find a way to win in spite of him and the great KW. I'm a Sox fan, but right now I'm hanging on the edge of a cliff with this team.

Yunz need some lessons in Pittsburghese. Stillers= Football team Parts= Baseball team Dahntahn= Central Business District Sammich= What you had for lunch Tawmmy Maddox= Stillers starting QB Bill Kahr= Stillers head coach, likes Tawmmy a lawt Heinz Filled= Where Stillers play. Don't yunz go there an root against the Stillers. It ain't healthy.

You've only been at it for five years. I've been a Sox fan since 1957 (age six), the Bears 1958, the Hawks 1959, and the Bulls since they came into the league. You take out the 90's Bulls and it is truly lean times. It's just tough being a Chicago sports fan. It's one of the world's great cities with better fans than most towns. Unfortunately Chicago sports teams have a history of being run by stubborn short sighted owners in every sport. The Bears collapse was forseeable and I said so, got smacked down on some boards so I shut up. It's a messy situation because I don't think Angelo really wanted to keep Jauron but felt he had to because of last year. They've lost too much on defense and they are greatly handicapped at the QB position. Anyway, hang in there and be prepared for lots of character building if you are going to root for Chicago teams. Thanks for having the good sense to pick the Sox in baseball, we have a much better class of baseball fan. Maybe younger newer fans like you can in someway provide the spark of energy to get things off dead center.

This sounds like a showdown at the OK Corral to me. KW is really turning out to be a control freak in the mold of Captain Queeg. If he has JR's complete blessing then God help this franchise. It is obvious that KW wants it all his way. He wants that more than he wants to win. As far as dissing Frank, he has tried my patience at times, but he is the greatest hitter in the teams history and deserves more respect than to be left at the curb with the weekly trash. He also has an introspective personality that doesn't always play well with the blow dried "media". When they stick it to him he reacts predictably which makes the problem worse. I'd rather have a beer with Frank than share the same airspace for one second with a certain cub.

You should ask baseball fans here in Pgh (what few of them are left) what they think of Bonds. About 5 or six years ago Bonds made the cover of SI. The cover photo had him standing on second base with his hands on his hips and that smug sneer on his face. The caption read "I'm Barry Bonds and you're not." That about sums it up, he's the most selfish self absorbed athlete I've ever seen. Oh, all right that flub in rf gives him a run for his money. Ask Jim Leyland what he REALLY thinks of Bonds. Not his nicey nice comments for the press. Bonds made his life hell when he was a Pirate. Remember that great throw Barry made to nail Bream in 92 sending the Pirates to the WS for the first time in 13 years? Oops, I'm hallucinating again.

The Pittsburgh Tribune Review has a message board. The last I looked, there were 17 topics and 83 posts on College sports, 35 topics and 153 posts on the Pirates, 293 topics and 2727 posts on the Penguins and 2587 topics and 31950 posts on the Steelers.

I'll try not to make this too long winded. Pittsburgh is a very quirky area. People here are friendly in an informal way that Chicago folks would find mystifying. Maybe this is a strange analogy, but think of the geography of Chicago and most of the midwest. Mostly flat. People are pretty straight forward and down to earth. Here you have all these hills and valleys and cliffs, people are maddeningly inconsistent. Friendly, but not always loyal or consistent. As far as sports goes, for 40 years the Steelers stunk. In the 70's they took the town and the sports world by storm and this became a Steelers town. This is a football area, many great football players come from SW Pa and they still play the best brand of HS football in the north in Pa and Ohio. People live and die football here and the Pirates, Penguins, and University of Pgh Panthers are poor stepchildren. It is true that the economy sucks big time here. I'd say that of the 50 largest metro areas in the US only Buffalo and New Orleans have weaker economies, and yes I have done some research on the subject. If you ever do come here, visit PNC Park, it's a great place to see a ball game, even if the Pirates aren't a great team to watch. If you go to a Penguins game you'll notice that the fans arrive late and leave early like in LA. You'll also notice that the fans aren't nearly as knowledgeable as in Chi or any of the other original 6 NHL cities. If you go to a Steelers game on the other game, ROOT FOR THE OTHER TEAM AT YOUR OWN RISK! Like I said they take football real seriously here.

I'm with you on the comment about ultra liberals and ultra conservatives. The thing is most liberals place all of us who oppose them in the same "trick bag" ( how's that for dated 60's language?) and they will never debate you honestly and fairly, always resorting to name calling and stereotyping. And folks like me are supposed to be bigoted. Anyway if MM and friends win the debate prepare to learn Arabic and grow a beard. If you are a woman then prepare to disappear. MM and many of his friends are in college and eveyone knows that college students are the smartest people in the world. I suggest you get a history book and look up Neville Chamberlain, because you guys make Neville Chamberlain look like Ghengis Khan.

There's lots I wanted to say here, but who wants to read an essay. MM should feel more comfortable at WSI where liberals pretty much have the run of things at the Parking Lot Forum with only occasionally counterpoint mainly from me. People should give more weight to HSC if for no other reason than she was there and went face to face with our "friends" in that part of the world. The fact is the West is on a collision course with the Islamic world. They want to turn the world into a 14th Century paradise and I don't know about the rest of you, but even though I'm "older" I ain't going along for that ride. If you are a woman, then God really help you, they really do treat their women like crap. I never understood why the Women's libbers who reside on the far left in America were not up in arms agains Osama, Hussein and co. Anyway the West and Islam are on a collision course and there is nothing to be done except to fight and win because losing this one would make the worst nightmare in the history of the world come true. "The Dark Ages" would be mild compared to what these folks have in store for me and you.

I live in the grand metropolis of Pgh and I'll tell you anything you want to know (if you care) about Pgh sports or anything Pgh for that matter. As far as that game goes, the crowd was silent mainly because the Penguins were getting their asses kicked. If you are insinuating that this is not a great sports town (it's pronounced tahn here) then Bingo!! You're absolutely right. This is a Steelers town first and foremost. God help you (it's pronounced Gawd here) if you go to Heinz Field and wear the other teams colors.