Conan's Late Start (NY Times)
April 4, 2004
By BILL CARTER
In February, Conan O'Brien brought his hit NBC late-night
show from New York to Toronto, of all places, as a favor to
a city still reeling from the SARS crisis, and for a week
twentysomething Canadians went a little crazy, lining up
for hours and filling the elegant 1300-seat Elgin Theater
with the energy of a rock concert.
Last September, a similarly frenzied New York crowd packed
the Beacon Theater on the Upper West Side for the taping of
a prime-time special to celebrate Mr. O'Brien's 10th
anniversary as host of "Late Night." The audience was
treated to the Conan specialties: outrageous characters,
wicked, self-deprecating wit and a roster of performers
from Jack Black to Will Ferrell.
Then there was the night 18 months ago when Mr. O'Brien
scored a critical triumph as host of the Emmy Awards -
displaying his highly energized surreal silliness with a
brief acoustic version of Jethro Tull's "Aqualung."
But lately things have gone quiet. Conan is back in his
office in Rockefeller Center, sitting at his old familiar
desk, getting ready to put on another edition of "Late
Night" in the 200-seat Studio 6A that has been his home for
the last decade. And he can't help feeling, well, a little
bummed.
"It was hard to experience something like that in Toronto
and go back to 6A," Mr. O'Brien says, with a sort of shrug
in his voice. "It's like when you go back to third grade
and suddenly you notice the water fountain is like 4 inches
off the ground." It's plain that Conan O'Brien, who has
always been exceedingly tall but has lately become
indisputably big in the world of late-night television, is
aching to stretch. "A big question is looming," he
acknowledges. "It's the elephant in the room that no one is
talking about." He utters the question somewhat
reluctantly, knowing that even that could be enough to stir
up a lot of unwanted attention. But utter it he does:
"What's next?"
The most obvious next step is to be host of a show earlier
in the evening - in the coveted 11:30 period, made famous
by Jack Paar and Johnny Carson. At NBC, that job is
currently held by Jay Leno, who consistently trounces all
competition. Until recently, it was possible for Mr.
O'Brien and his team to imagine a time in the
not-too-distant future when Jay might step down from his
throne, and Conan might step up. But last week, NBC
announced it was extending Mr. Leno's contract to the end
of the decade. The decision has inescapable implications
for Mr. O'Brien's career, as everyone around him knows.
Gavin Polone, Mr. O'Brien's manager and long-time friend,
puts it in the plainest terms. "There's just no question
that he's going to be on earlier than 12:30," he says.
"He's going to 11:30. It's going to happen."
There it is: the late-night star at 12:30 is pondering a
move to 11:30 (it's really 12:35 and 11:35, rounded off for
convenience). If it sounds at all familiar, it's because
we've been here before - same time, and yes, same channel.
David Letterman starred in the original; after more than a
decade as host of the later show, he was blocked from
advancing to the main room, the 11:35 show, the franchise,
NBC's "Tonight" Show, because NBC decided to give Johnny
Carson's chair to a guy its executives believed was a more
mainstream - and cooperative - star.
Now Conan O'Brien is getting set for the remake. And Jay
Leno is being cast yet again as the man in possession of
the prize. Mr. O'Brien has a little over a year and half
left on his NBC deal, which means in only a matter of
months he's likely to find himself in the precise position
that David Letterman did in 1993: choosing between staying
in his comfortable 12:35 home on NBC and chasing that
hour-earlier dream on other networks.
Mr. O'Brien takes pains to point out the distinctions. "The
difference with Dave, which even NBC will admit, is that
there was no way Dave could continue to do the job at 12:30
with Jay as the `Tonight' show host, because they were
peers. I'm 15 years younger. With me at 12:30, you can
still feel there's order in the heavens somewhat."
Still, he is aware of the permutations. "By the end of my
contract I will have done the show 13 years, 2 more than
Dave did it," he says. "No one at NBC has said: `Here's
what we're going to do. Here's the offer.' It's hard to
figure these things out in a vacuum. I know I have a great
job now. I think it's natural to at some point want to move
earlier. I think I've proved I can do a show that I don't
think has to exist at 12:30."
Mr. O'Brien and his NBC bosses are heading unavoidably
toward a relationship dilemma. After the announcement that
he had signed Mr. Leno to a new long-term deal, Jeff
Zucker, the president of NBC Entertainment and the man into
whose hands this exploding cigar has fallen, said, "Conan
is a huge star, and I believe he's going to have a long
future with NBC with a lot of tremendous opportunities."
The network has so far courted Mr. O'Brien as best it can.
Nobody on either side will confirm, but neither will they
deny, that in the event of some misfortune befalling Mr.
Leno, Mr. O'Brien has a Prince of Wales clause. Mr. O'Brien
wants to create comedy shows through his production company
and NBC is already steering business his way - particularly
one promising comedy pilot starring Macaulay Culkin. And
Mr. O'Brien had only to ask once to do a prime-time
Christmas special this year.
But these are side dishes, and everybody knows it. "The
production company is fun," he says. "But it's never going
to be the passion that the show is. I've got the bit in my
teeth with this show and I'm very determined to take it as
far as it will go."
When and where he will take it are the questions of the
moment. Mr. O'Brien turns 41 this year. By the time the new
Leno contract runs out, Mr. O'Brien will be almost 47 -
about the same age that Mr. Letterman was when he decided
he was too old for post-midnight. If he stays at NBC, he
will have done a 12:35 show for a television eternity: 17
years.
In their fondest dreams, Mr. O'Brien and his team, which
also includes his executive producer, Jeff Ross, and his
agents from the Endeavor talent agency, would have liked
NBC to draw up a formal plan of succession: say, three or
four more years and then Conan gets the "Tonight" job. But
that scenario would essentially have involved NBC's asking
Mr. Leno, whose show is bringing in more profits than any
show except "Today," to set himself up as a lame duck.
"It's hard for me emotionally to say: how can Leno deserve
to be there, when I deserve to be there? I don't feel that
in my bones," Mr. O'Brien says. "My agents can say that -
and they do. But I have no control over them. They're
Rottweilers that I bought. Their job is to attack. My job
is to say: dear me. But I don't expect things that are
unrealistic."
Mr. Leno said last week that he thinks very highly of Mr.
O'Brien: "I know he's really good. What he does he does
great." He also said that there shouldn't be much
distinction between 11:35 and 12:35 now that viewers can
easily record shows and play them when they like. Given his
reputation for a work ethic to shame a boatload of galley
slaves, it is not surprising that NBC doesn't seem to be
contemplating Mr. Leno's retirement - ever. As Mr. O'Brien
jokes: "Jay may decide he wants to do the show until 2025.
Jay could say: my brain will be in a jar and we'll wheel it
out and I'll do the monologue."
But Mr. O'Brien's team has no intention of waiting around
to see, especially after last week's news. "I was a little
surprised by what NBC did with Jay," Gavin Polone says,
referring to both the length of NBC's commitment and the
fact that it was made without first locking Mr. O'Brien in.
But, Mr. Polone says: "Conan has a lot of great choices
ahead of him. NBC has probably only a lot of anxiety ahead
of them."
He sees late-night opportunities everywhere. "I think Fox
has to offer," Mr. Polone says, an easy prediction since
the Fox network made a serious run at Mr. O'Brien two years
ago. "I believe CBS might have to offer," he continues,
speculating that Mr. Letterman might be ready to step aside
by early 2006 - a prospect Mr. Letterman's close associates
discount as extremely unlikely. "And ABC obviously has to
offer," he says. Just two years ago, ABC's executives were
so eager to land a successful 11:35 entertainment show that
they were willing to dump the much honored "Nightline" if
Mr. Letterman would take its place. "Nightline" eventually
won a reprieve, but ABC's guarantee to continue the news
program runs out just around the same time that Mr.
O'Brien's contract comes up for renewal.
"You might have three companies that need new jetliners at
the same time, and we'll be the only company actually
building a jet," Mr. Polone concludes. "Other people may be
building washing machines. But why go to a company offering
washing machines when you need a jet?"
Some late-night fans can already hear jet-like noises
coming from the direction of Comedy Central, where Jon
Stewart has burnished a reputation for smart, topical
comedy on "The Daily Show." If the network late-night wheel
swings again, Mr. Stewart, who is 41, would seem to be
positioned alongside Mr. O'Brien in the line for the next
11:35 ride.
Mr. Stewart re-upped last month for four more years at "The
Daily Show." The president of Comedy Central, Larry Divney,
asserted that no network can steal Mr. Stewart away until
2008. But: Comedy Central is owned by Viacom, which also
happens to own CBS. Presumably if Mr. Letterman surprised
the world and decided to step down, the CBS chairman,
Leslie Moonves, could dial some familiar numbers. "If Les
called could he get Jon away?" Mr. Divney said. "That's a
good question."
None of the outside options seem all that clear-cut to Mr.
O'Brien - at least at the moment. "There may be
possibilities, but are they viable?" he says. "NBC at 12:30
is still better than a lot of things. Following the
`Tonight' show is still better than a poke in the eye with
a sharp stick. There is the curiosity to take the show
earlier. But if going to another network for more money
still means being seen by fewer people, what are you doing?
Then it's just an ego thing."
In the last contract season, Fox came at Mr. O'Brien with a
deal he acknowledges would have "put me financially in the
same league as the other guys." The round, fat number of
$25 million a year has been mentioned. Mr. O'Brien settled
for about a third as much to stay at NBC. "I'd like to make
more money, like everybody else," he says. "But it's more
important to do this well and be in a situation where I can
do it well. So if the Pax network offers me $60 million
next year to do a Christian talk show, and the $60 million
is guaranteed, a lot of people would say: `Look, go take
the 60 million and if the show goes under, you're fine.' I
would say I'm not fine. I'm a really rich guy who doesn't
get to do the thing he really loves, cause it got canceled
after four weeks."
Far more important to him is the fear that he might be on
the shoulder waiting for the road to clear when a member of
his own generation zooms by. "If NBC said, `Listen, Conan,
Jamie Kennedy is going to do the `Tonight' show and we
really want you to continue at 12:30.' Or `Carrot Top is
going to get the 'Tonight' show'; well, I'd be out the
door. No offense to Carrot Top."
Mr. O'Brien means no offense to any parties - particularly
the guy whose job he really wants. "I like Jay and I
wouldn't want to do anything with NBC that I wouldn't be
able to tell Jay I was doing," he says. "I do not want to
manipulate my way into this job. I do not want to do
anything that I couldn't comfortably say to Jay Leno I was
doing."
Statements like this are made all the time in show
business. What makes it a bit different with Mr. O'Brien is
that he is, his show's staff members and his NBC bosses
acknowledge, an almost shockingly nice and normal human
being to be caught up in the ego-and neurosis-driven
business of late-night. This is true even though he, more
than any of the others who have dispensed humor into
American bedrooms past midnight, has every right to be
bitter, twisted and full of bile.
There was a night, after all, just as he was finishing up
his first year, when Mr. O'Brien sat on the floor of Jeff
Ross's office listening to Gavin Polone on the speaker
phone delivering the gut-wrenching news that the network,
reneging on a previous oral promise of a one-year contract
extension, was instead offering a "week-to-week" renewal.
Nothing like that had ever been done to a television star
before - not even Lassie.
At that point the NBC hierarchy was disposed to write off
Conan as a loony failed experiment. A comedy writer for
"The Simpsons," he had been plucked from obscurity, like
Lana Turner at a soda fountain, by Lorne Michaels, the man
who created "Saturday Night Live." Mr. Michaels had the
novel idea that a new face might be able to make it in late
night.
John Agoglia, then NBC's chief deal-maker, made little
secret of his doubts about Mr. O'Brien - and especially his
then-sidekick, Andy Richter, whom nobody at NBC got in the
least. NBC later relented, though only to the point of
giving Mr. O'Brien 13-week renewals. One night, NBC
actually ordered Mr. O'Brien canceled, only to rescind the
order the next morning, a night he didn't know of until
years later.
"I swear I've made my peace with all of it," he says,
taking the high road. "I got an unprecedented break, and I
went for it. It wasn't easy. I took my lumps. I have no
problems with any of it." But Mr. O'Brien has been studying
carefully recent events in late-night - and all the while
he's been fingering the scar.
"I have watched a lot of people launch late-night shows
since I launched mine and I don't think any of them have
been as good." (Hello, Craig Kilborn; that means you, Jimmy
Kimmel.) "And they got harsh criticism. But their networks
stood behind them steadfastly. I feel my first week of
shows are still better than a lot of these other shows that
have come along since, and they've had 10 times the network
support I had.
"I don't have any complaint with anybody finding fault with
me as a performer in the first two years of the show
because there was fault there and I'll take it." Here Mr.
O'Brien's affable demeanor takes a turn. "But NBC made it
more difficult than it had to be. That 13-week renewal
stuff is unprecedented in the history of show business. I'm
a forgiving person. I tend to let things go and move on.
But if John Agoglia somehow fell to the bottom of a coal
mine and I was the only one who knew about it, I'm not
saying I wouldn't alert the authorities, but I might take
my time about it, maybe wait a week or two - provided he
had plenty of fresh water."
Outburst finished, Mr. O'Brien stresses that this
apparently weighty psychic baggage will not be a factor in
future decisions. "I really am past all that. It's all
good. They treat me really well." By they he means Mr.
Zucker - and especially the NBC chairman, Bob Wright, who
supported Mr. O'Brien earlier than most others, and with
whom he has forged an unusually close personal
relationship. "I would walk across broken glass for Bob
Wright," Mr. O'Brien says. "He did the right thing with me
and it worked out. I'm very happy to do anything Bob Wright
asks me to do."
Surely the biggest request Mr. Wright is likely to come up
with is: Conan, will you stay?
On the couch in Jeff Ross's office, where he first heard
about NBC's one-week contract offer, Mr. O'Brien flops
down, his stilt-size legs draped over one armrest. Toronto,
the prime-time special, those are now dimming memories: the
adoring crowds, the booming high-ceilinged laughs, the guy
who held up a sign that read: "I took Conan for my
Confirmation name."
Mr. O'Brien knows he could have been at Fox for more than a
year already. Possibly, he could even have been at CBS.
ABC's run at Mr. Letterman coincided almost precisely with
the final days of Mr. O'Brien's last negotiation with NBC.
"At the last second, CBS called: `We'd like to talk to
Conan.' Of course my agents started howling, yipping, and
flipping." CBS was looking for protection if Mr. Letterman
bolted. But Mr. O'Brien had none of it. "I told my guys he
wasn't going, and I don't want to be the stick for CBS to
hit David Letterman with. I have undying respect and
admiration for the man."
The connection with Dave goes well beyond the fact that
Conan is host of the show that Mr. Letterman created. "I
started watching Dave's morning show and was really
interested in comedy," Mr. O'Brien says. "Then it's like:
Yup, that's my guy. He got to me at that age when you can
really affect people. When they're between 15 and 22. You
make an emotional connection, sort of the way Led Zeppelin
made an emotional connection with people at a certain age,
and for the rest of their lives all they want to do is put
on a Led Zepplin record. It's the same thing in late night.
I think I've grown a generation of people who think our
show is their show."
We are entering the prime of Conan O'Brien - and he knows
it. "It sounds smug, but I just know time is on our side.
When I went in front of that Emmy crowd it was like they
had marked my height when I was about 4 years old. Then
it's 10 years later and 6-foot-4 Conan walks in, and
they're shocked. Because their frame of reference is always
Letterman or Leno. I don't think young people were shocked
at all."
The onstage Conan, once geeky, often trying too hard,
needing support from Andy Richter, has been replaced by the
confident performer who does it all alone, who saves bad
material with physical shtick, who can use his intellectual
gifts to elicit both humor and information from an
interview segment. The offstage Conan brims with the same
élan. "I have infinite confidence that I'm good at this. If
you cut my legs and arms off, I'd go out there and put on a
good show."
Jack Paar, the first host to make the "Tonight" show a
phenomenon, befriended Mr. O'Brien several years before his
death. "He wrote me a letter and he just told me he liked
my style," Mr. O'Brien says. "He told me to marry a nice
girl, get a nice dog, and a lot of blue shirts. All of
which I have since done. And he said: `Just think what I
could have done if I had your hair.'
"And he was right. I think aside from John Davidson, I have
the best hair on television. So if I keep doing good shows
and the hair stays, it will all work out."
Conan pauses, then adds, "Let's just hope it gets ugly and
then we'll all have fun."