southsideirish

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What does it matter if the Marlins wouldn't even be willing to make that deal? I don't see why they'd want those players in exchange for Cabrera when they could probably get some elite talent from a team on the west coast. You just said neither team would. I told you why the Sox are clueless if they wouldn't. QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Around $96M. At the most I see the Sox spending $100M next year, that's their pattern. Their pattern is to spend 4 million more than the previous year? Really? QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He made $7.4M in his first year of arbitration, he's looking at $12M+ next year and even more in '09. The Sox can't afford it. You know this how? How do you know the White Sox's finances? If they are willing to go after AROD on multiple occassions why do you think they couldn't affor 12M?

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The only way would be to deal Dye and Buehrle, and trade all the players received as well as some of our better prospects. Florida desperately needs OFs. They currently are playing the likes of Joe Borchard, Reggie Abercrombie, and Alfredo Almazega (sp?) in the OF. They have a lot of quality pitching, but would undoubtedly take more. They also could use a young 1b. If you could get Loney from the Dodgers, give them Fields and Sweeney, and then whatever pitching and OF prospects you've received for Buehrle, you might be able to interest them. However, I think they'd like to keep him at all costs- he's what makes that offense go along with HanRam and Uggla. There you go - see now your talking - find a way to get him. However, I wouldn't give up Buehrle. I would rather see what I could get for Contreras. This team needs Buehrle. They can't give up both Danks and Buehrle. Try to overwhelm the Marlins. Do what you gotta do to get this guy.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> the problem is that two years ago i wouldnt have doubted if KW would have traded 4 of his best prospects for him (i dont even think those 4 would get it done) but the organization is simply goign in a different direction to try to stockpile youth, specifically young arms, and to trade so many pieces that will probably play big parts of 08 and 09 isnt what we are gonna do, at least not with so many current holes that will need to be filled.....though who wouldnt love cabrera Maybe he is stockpiling arms for a huge trade. I am just saying - prospects are just that - prospects. An unproven commodity. I want proven over unproven any day of the week - so if I have to give up 4 or 5 prospects for a proven top 3-5 MLB hitter then hell yes - where do I sign up? QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That payroll is well over $100M a year, that's not going to happen. Where does the payroll stand now? QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're offering 1 top 50 prospect in baseball and a clusterf*** of ok young talent. No one in that group is anywhere near a top talent. I don't think either of the Sox or Marlins would make that deal to be honest. Then the Sox are clueless. A top 50 prospect? WHO THE HELL CARES! I am getting Miguel Cabrera in return. And the "clusterf***" of ok young talent? WHO THE HELL CARES! I am getting Miguel Cabrera!

QUOTE(TheOcho @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So then who's the 4th and 5th starter for the Sox next season since Mark is likely gone? That is your problem - you think Buehrle is gone. I don't see it that way. I think they can re-sign Buehrle. Then they just need a 5th starter. Go get a mediocre veteran for the 5th spot like they did in 2005 with El Duque. Bring up a rookie - that tall drink of water - Russell or even Floyd. With a lineup of Ichiro, Thome, Konerko, Cabrera, Crede, AJ, Rowand they should be able to score more runs and they should be a better fielding team.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Sox don't have the young talent required to deal for him. He's one of the 5 best hitters in the game and is what 24 years old? Not happening. Because Miguel Cabrera is out of the Sox price (talent) range where as Melky Cabrera would be fairly easy to acquire. No s*** Melky is easy to acquire. The question is - why do I want mediocre talent? We have that. We don't need to accumulate more of it.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Sox don't have the young talent required to deal for him. He's one of the 5 best hitters in the game and is what 24 years old? Not happening. I would try it. I would give Fields up for him - Danks - Massett - Sweeney. I would throw them all in the deal. I would trade Dye for Billingsley and whatever and throw them in them deal as well. Billingsley, Fields, Danks, Masset, and Sweeney won't get it done?

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He's not available. Willis is the guy they're looking to move. This article makes it seem like he could be: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/mlb_exper...o?urn=mlb,36247 I would at least try to go after players like this - instead of prospects that we may have to wait a year or 2 for and that may not be crap after waiting. Is there a percentage as to the deals that work out for prospects as opposed to the ones that don't? I am really not a big fan of trading away a known quantity for an unknown. QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh, MIGUEL Cabrera? I figured this thread was about Melky Cabrera, someone who we might have a shot at. I think the Marlins might trade you their Cabrera if you could go back in time and give them that 2005 World Series win. And you threw in Danks. The freakin' thread reads "MIGUEL." However, you're right. I definitely want to try to get a guy that is almost 24 and is hitting .253 and has a career 10 ML home runs instead of trying to get someone that is 24 and has a career 118 ML HRs and is considered one of the best hitters in baseball. I want to settle for someone that is striving to be mediocre. Of course that is the one I am talking about. Why try to go out and get something that is actually worth anything?

What would it take to get this guy? He is availble - but at what price? This would solve LF, then we could get Ichiro for RF and Aaron Rowand for CF. Cabrera will not be a free agent until after 2009 I believe. That is one hell of an OF and you replace Pods with Ichiro and Dye with Cabrera just at different corners. Just a dream I know - but Ichiro basically pays for his own salary with all of the merchandise he sells and the fans he brings to the park. You could even put Cabrera at 3B and move Fields to LF. Plus he is Venezuelan. Get em Oz.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 02:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Terraro is not really a prospect. Why? Because he is almost 27? I would say he is a prospect and I would say he is a better prospect than either Owens or Anderson.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 11:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'd do that Dodgers deal in a god damn heartbeat but Ned Colletti would hang up half way through the word Contreras. That is what I basically said. I said - why do the Dodgers want another SP? Sounds the same to me.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 08:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 4 letter words are not resturant appropriate, especially if able to be heard by other patrons. Common sense. I totally agree. You are supposed to be more respectful of women and children as well. That language is not appropriate and it should be common sense. Also, if they were asked politely not to use such language then I don't know why they would berate the man and keep on acting so clueless. Plus - why are they that loud and obnoxious? Act like children then you get treated like children. It's a damn shame.

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was thinking of what I would try to do to reload this organization with some talent, and with what should be an upcoming firesale I wanted to take a stab before KW screws it up. Trade Contreras and cash to the Dodgers for James Loney and Ivan DeJesus Jr. - Dodgers are trying to make a push and have Loney blocked in the OF and at 1B for a while. Trade Thome to the Yankees for Melky Cabrera and Delin Betances - Yeah I know he has a no trade - he has waived it before, and would do it again. Trade Dye, McDougal and Broadway to the D-backs for Eric Byrnes, Alberto Callaspo, Emilio Bonifacio and Carlos Gonzales - Trade Buerhle and Mackowiak to the Braves for Saltamacchia and Devine - Trade Konerko and Anderson to the Red Sox for Ellsbury and Jon Lester - Konerko wont be much good on a team that has been blown up, Trade Jenks and Podsednik to the Cubs for Samardzija, Chris Huseby, and Ryan Theriot Trade Pierzynski at the end of the season for whatever bullpen help you can get for him and get building. I'm sorry but this sucks. I would hate KW if he did anything close to this. Why do the Dodgers want another SP in Contreras? Why do the Yanks want another LH hitter in Thome? Why are we trading Konerko and why do the Red Sox want him to replace Youkilis when Youkilis is doing so much better? Why the hell are we trading Jenks - especially to the Cubs? I am sooooo glad you are not the GM of my favorite team. It seems like you love prospects waaaaaay too much.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Again, I have no disagreement with this argument. My concern is forming of the perception of "Fast Kenny" dumping tired and broken pitchers on teams. So if KW tries to shop Jose this winter, I suspect he need not even call Philly. Even though Philly should have ordered the physical, the Philly GM can try and go to the press make KW look bad/get sympathy because he got a broken Freddy Garcia. If the networks like say ...ESPN, run with it, it could damage our ability to trade in the future. I don't get your logic. Anyone trading with Kenny or any other GM should have the player take a physical. If he is shopping Jose Contreras and the Phillies want him I am sure they will have him do a physical this time before the trade is completed. If this GM or any other GM goes to the press about something like this he will look just as dumb and incompetent as the Blue Jays GM did. This does not fall on KWs shoulders - this is totally on the shoulders of the Phill's GM. If the tables were turned you would be asking for KW's head because he was so damn stupid to not have a physical done. You and Big Dick Allen have strange ways of thinking.

we gave up this pile of crap and still got Gavin Floyd and Gio? Freaking amazing! What a deal!

So where is this deal? I went to ESPN.com and googled it and came up with nothing. Has it happened yet? When will it happen?

QUOTE(GreenSox @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 08:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh, yea, Ozzie's a big believer in plate patience and taking walks and waiting for a ball that you can hit. What a howler that is. And you call my post BS? The "evidence" you provide is walker saying he wants players that can hit up the middle. There's a big difference between not swinging for the fences and plate patience. On the other hand, this staff has: drooled over free-swinging Erstad and labelling Erstad a .400 quality hitter when he was hitting below .200. When he uses Alex Cintron as a pinch-hitter. When he loads the team up with free swingers. If they believed in patience wouldn't at least ONE of the slap hitters take walks. You'd think, but none do under this staff. Do you see hitters taking walks when Guillen and Walker coach them? Do you ever see Guillen criticiizing a player (which he loves to do in general) for swinging at everything. The Sox aren't alone. The Angels aren't an OBP team either and they've had success. The Sox won a WS with free swingers. You can do it if you get good hitting free swingers. Right now, we feature Rob M., two rookies, and Alex Cintron as pinch hitter (and a cold rest of the team). THAT is the problem. He's not? What manager/coach isn't a fan of patience or taking walks or waiting for a ball that you can hit? What coach or manager tells a player to swing at anything and everything? You must be kidding me. Right? These last 2 posts of yours have to be jokes. Who are these slap hitters you are talking about? Jerry Owens is the only slap hitter on the team as far as I can tell. Maybe - possibly - Erstad. Guillen is aggressive by nature - but I can't imagine he or anyone else does not like patience and taking walks as opposed to free swinging and striking out. I can't imagine Ozzie critizicing his team for taking too many walks or seeing too many pitches. How ridiculous is that? These last 2 posts by you are amazing. How don't know what you could possibly be thinking. The last part of your post - we had good free swingers in 2005 and bad free swingers now? In our everyday lineup - what changes have been made? Jim Thome and Darin Erstad for Frank Thomas/Carl Everett and Aaron Rowand? So you think Jim Thome is a worse hitter than the combination of Frank Thomas and Carl Everett and Darin Erstad is a worse hitter than Aaron Rowand? You have wierd opinions.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Where the hell is SSI71 when I need him? I know he'd have my back on this one. I agree with the other poster who mentions most of the callers are reactionary ignorant people that the Ranger has to put up with night in and night out. I also don't understand what these callers are thinking when they call in.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In regards to Tadahito, when Shingo left, Tadahito's # decreased slowly. He can still get the job done. He'll get the runner over or slap the hit to go 1st and 3rd. Shingo made the transition process a lot easier for Tadahito, and it showed. Do you just make S-H-I-T up as you go? Shingo was released in August of 2005. Tadahito had a better year in 2006 than he did in 2005. Come on man.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What's wrong with Jeff Cirillo? He plays great D at 3B, has a little speed left in him, and while he doesn't blow you away with the bat, his veteran presence makes up for that. He is complete garbage. He is hitting .216 with 1 HR and 10 RBI. He has no bat speed and play average defense. I would would much rather use Mackowiak as a sub at 3B. Hell, even Pablo.

QUOTE(GreenSox @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 05:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think it's more Ozzie - Ozzie likes free swingers, including, if not especially, those with no power. Ozzie was a free swinger with no power and Ozzie considers Ozzie to have been a good hitter (he was a well below-average hitter). Ozzie doesn't like the walkers, he likes the slap hitters. That's what we've got a team full of - hitters that swing at everything. And I see no evidence that Ozzie or Walker is interested in more OBP or plate patience. That said, I think this roster, when healthy, is not championship quality. So, there's only so much Ozzie can do. BUT I think Kenny gets the players that fit Ozzie's philosophy. This post is the biggest bunch of B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T I have read today. When did Ozzie make it seem like he likes the players you suggested? Walker always talks about players hitting it back up the middle and not worry about homeruns because they will come. Everyone likes high OBP guys and hitters with patience. This may be the most moronic post of the century. Either that or it is a bunch of sarcasm that can not be detected.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Also, we shouldn't make the same mistake that we did with BA, and not have a bona fide backup. We should have someone who is older and can shed some light for Fields, and when Fields is slumping or having an off day, you can put this vet at 3B. Jeff Cirillo immediately pops into my head. But I don't know how long the Twins have him signed for. Please no. This can't be serious. Not Jeff Cirillo. They had Tony Batista last year, should we go after him. AHHHH!! QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wouldn't just say political reasons...if Konerko's bat ever wakes up like it did in 05 after that horrendous start, then having him around for $12 mil a year is actually a pretty darn good deal in this market, and I think he's an excellent guy to keep around in terms of being able to deal with the kids as well. If nothing else, supposedly Anderson spent a bunch of the offseason working with PK on his swing. So that's what happened to Paulie. It all makes sense now.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 10:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I can't be the only one who thinks that Mr. Uribe's talents would simply be wasted @ 2nd base, can I? If we're tolerating his struggling bat in the lineup, then we might as well maximize his defense, and the things he's pretty good at are covering a lot of area and having a cannon for an arm. Putting him at 2nd makes both of those less useful. I completely agree. QUOTE(forrestg @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If we want to acquire AROD we won't be able to pay full price for him. We'll have to trade a proven product to get him now in the middle of the season. I'd say either a SP or a proven hitter and we have only one hitting around or barely over 300. If we trade a big enough talent we may get some cash back. Next year JR will not allow KW to spend 25 million a year to have him. Oh there are 2 players that may get us a rebate on AROD. One question - How do you know? One answer - you don't, neither do I, and neither does anyone else on this board. You can have an opinion - but to state something as if it were fact is obnoxious and ridiculous. A player like AROD pays for himself through the people he would bring in and the merchandise his name sells. The same with Ichiro. QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I love ARod(he might just be my non favorite member of the White Sox, besides Aaron of course) but he wont sign here as a free agent. Kenny will definitely make an offer but he'll be out of our price range. I really think we'll have a good shot at Mr. Suzuki though. (1) How do you know his pricetag? (2) How do you know it is out of our price range? (3) What do you think it will take to get Suzuki? QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think I'd rather see Anderson in CF, Sweeney in LF, and Ichiro in RF. If not BA, then I really wouldn't mind the Sox picking up Erstad's option and letting him bat 9th. Ichiro in CF, Erstad in LF, and Sweeney in RF. Anderson will not get a shot to be back here nor does he deserve one. That is my opinion. Sweeney, Erstad, and Ichiro is one light hitting OF. You better get some power somewhere else and I don't know where that somewhere else is.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 08:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Simple, measuring times to 1B from the batter's box, first to third, second to home....triples would be another category. We are a slow, station-to-station team. It's incredible the difference when you watch someone like Owens out there compared to the rest, or Ray Durham, or even Willie Harris (in the past). Of course, those times indicate speed and quickness/explosiveness, there are lots of other indications, such as stolen bases or fewest times grounding in a DP per plate appearance. Nobody will dispute the fact that we're one of the slowest teams in the majors, if not THE slowest, without either Pods or Owens in the line-up. There are no positions that we are above major league average in terms of athletic ability for that particular position, just think of it like that. Athleticism and speed are completely differnt things. I never said we weren't slow. But to equate athleticism with speed is not correct. I will state again that you have no idea how athletic or unathletic a person is on this team. By seeing some of the plays that are made I would say Dye, Erstad, Uribe, Iguchi, Crede, Pods, and even A.J. have above athletic ability. Speed is a whole different category. QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 10:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> When you are relying on Alex Cintron, Rob Mackowiak, Jerry Owens as starters and a host of aging, slow-footed slumping power hitters, very little ability to run the bases and manufacture runs, combined with a bullpen that is in serious meltdown mode it's amazing to me this team isn't 15 below .500 Without some pretty good starting pitching we'd be well out of this thing. I don't think Whitey Herzog could get much more out of this team. It's laborious to watch and the talent is very one-dimensional. Our minors looks depleted (although Gio, Egg, Cunningham, Russell and maybe Getz hold some promise) and we are playing in a division with 3 wrecking crew teams. When you say depleted are you suggesting that the team would have been better off without trading away a lot of the minor league players that they did? If not then I don't think you are using the correct verbage. If you are then I would like to know how you can suggest something like that when much of the "talent" that was traded sucks ass and is nowhere to be found.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 08:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well obviously the Padres can have more success because it's easier for their pitchers to do well in their ballpark. But I do think for the Sox it's something they should consider more in the future. Pitchers like Sisco and MacDougal have often fallen behind early in the count because of their control problems, and it puts more pressure on them in that situation then if you're ahead in the count. I don't mind acquiring hard throwers IF they can throw strikes. Unfortunately, many of our bullpen pitchers can't. Whether it's KW fault or Don Cooper's, I don't know, probably both are to blame. So then you would not have acquired Thorton? McDougal seemed to be able to throw strikes last year. I think Sisco and Aardsma could be very good with some time in the minors. Massett could be outstanding with a little more time. If anything - that could be KW's biggest downfall - he was counting on too many younger arms producing in the bullpen. I think he may have needed a little more experience there and allow these young guys to develop a bit more. However, he should have been able to count on Jenks, Thorton, and McDougal. Plus - I would not blame a coach or GM for a lack of production from a player that usually produces. That is on the player. Counting on too many young players to come through in the same position - that may be on KW. However, 3 bullpen arms that you can count on is - in many situations - common and enough.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 08:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It doesn't mean much, besides the fact that doubles in many parks turn into homers at Comiskey and that a majority of our hitters are (or have morphed into) homer-oriented sluggers, even Uribe and Iguchi (until this last hot streak). Uribe has always swung for the fences. This is is M.O. He is known for this. He always was. QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you look at the Angels, they have Willits, Murphy, Matthews, Cabrera, Figgins, Aybar, Wood, Kendrick...Anderson is breaking down, but Vladdy is still a decent athlete, although his body is breaking down a little. Even from what I've seen of Kotchmann, Morales and McPherson, they're much more athletic than say Thome, Konerko and Crede. Come on - how do you know who is more athletic? You are opening up a big can of worms there that is impossible to tell. Plus just because someone appears to be more athletic does not mean anything as to how a body will break down or how they will produce. I really have no idea where you are going with this.