Chisoxfn

Awesome. I'm hoping somehow it gets picked up yet again. For a while I thought last season was gonna be it.

Kart = amazing (I play the super nintendo version from time to time). A great dreamcast game was that tennis game. That thing rocked.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 29, 2006 -> 09:27 AM) Gload has been with the Sox for 3 years now, makes dirt, and really has no spot on the team. If he really was that good, why wouldn't he have been traded? I like Gload, an happy to see him back, but I think the role he is in now is the right one. If Gload was a starter for the Sox next year, you would have alot of unhappy White Sox fans by July, just a hunch. I have very little doubt that if I ran a team one of the first things I'd do would be to pick up Gload for pennies on the dollar because the guy would come in and hit .280 with 15 HR and a decent amount of runs driven in from left field (and yes I think he can play out there just fine if you let him play there). I wouldn't even be shocked to see him hit .300 over the course of a full season. Yes, I think Gload is that good and have thought so from the first time I saw him down in Charlotte. QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 29, 2006 -> 09:57 AM) It's very possible Rock. I just would think if thats the case with Ross, he would have been given that shot already, with the Sox or with someone else. You guys got to remember. He was dubbed as a first baseman for a long time and has since expanded his arsenal. We already know he's a good defensive first baseman (when he plays it consistently) and in the field he isn't bad. He's also got decent wheels and is a smart base runner. Oh and did I mention the only other two places he was in the minors he hammered the ball but was stuck behind legends like Todd Helton and Mark Grace.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 29, 2006 -> 05:22 PM) Balta, I think that could change this year. I think that for a few reasons. 1. Mark/Count/Vaz/Jon all have logged a TON of innings, and I think we saw some of the effects down the stretch last season. 2.Brandon in the rotation. We all know that he really got jacked around last season, and it could hurt us this season. Ain't a chance he pitches 200 innings this year, at least not a chance he doesnt get hurt. His body just isn't used to that yet. Ozzie and Kenny know this, so I think your going to see the pen more this year,as we should. 3. The importance Ozzie and Kenny have put on the bullpen this off-season. Whenever asked about this off-season, that seems to be one of the 1st things to come up. Ozzie has made some awful moves, but I really do believe he has learned alot, especially in 2006, and you will see a little change in philosophy with the staff this year. Plus while Ozzie may not use his relievers a lot, he's the type of manager that tends to put all of his relievers into key situations so that final guys isn't just going to get mop up duties, he's more than likely to see action with the bases loaded in the 6th inning of a game.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 29, 2006 -> 08:06 AM) I know Quinn will go #1, because the hype machine has been moving on him for almost two years now. Even though he has shown no real ability to lead a team to success, the physical aspects of him as a player will continue to draw praise, ESPECIALLY playing at the "great" Notre Dame. Troy Smith isn't even going in the first round huh? I want to know where you people are getting this. Does everyone think he is an Eric Crouch rerun or something? As the person who orginally stated Quinn is better than Smith and will be the higher NFL pick and the better NFL player, I also want to mention I fully expect Smith to go in the first round and likely in the top half of it as well. I just don't think he's as good as Quinn (as a pro QB) but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the tools to be a damn good QB (they just aren't as good as Quinn's, imo).

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 29, 2006 -> 05:09 PM) I for one agree that this sort of deal makes a ton of sense, but personally, I think a better option than Donnely is to look at one of the former prospects the Angels have soured on, specifically Dallas McPherson. He is at least a 3rd baseman by trade, he's a lefty batter (which means if necessary he could platoon with Fields), he has a little more ML experience, he's not going to be playing anywhere for the Angels this year as far as I can tell, and he does still have a high ceiling if he can ever stay healthy. Furthermore, I for one am still happy sticking with the knuckleballer out of the bullpen as the 4th righty and 6th guy out. As we all know, Ozzie hardly ever uses his bullpen, so it's going to be difficult for Haegs to be exposed anyway, but I think we wind up better off with this setup than the other way. Haeger gave me some confidence that he could perform out of the bullpen as a long-man by doing exactly that in September, and I would like to see him at least be slotted into that role next year. If he fails...well, that's why he's the 6th guy out. And I for one also would vastly prefer an outfield of Figgins/Anderson/Dye to one of Podsednik/Figgins/Dye. Defensively the former is much, much better, it's several million dollars cheaper, and it has a much higher ceiling. With MacDougall as one of our key relievers, we need to be extra careful that we have depth because its just a matter of time before he goes down and someone else gets a bigger role. Don't get me wrong, I love McPherson, he's a superior prospect to that of Fields (he's just not healthy) and that would be a sick platoon (especially because from time to time you could probably trot Fields out in left, although that may not be great for his development defensively but it would give him AB's). However, I don't know if the Angels give up McPherson without getting a pretty darn good prospect from us (not that I'm opposed to it). I'm probably the only one here that would include Broadway or Anderson in the deal even if we got nothing else in return (because I think it makes that much sense in the long run). I'd hate to give up Broadway (nor do I think it will take that) but if that ended up being what it took to get the deal done (with us getting McPherson or Donnelly or some other arm we like) than so be it. The downside is that Mac isn't that good and his trade value gets killed. If I made that Crawford deal it would be contingent on what else the Rays want. It would probably be too much, but if it were a straight up deal (and I'd be shocked if it was) I would do it. The rotation will be strong anyway (Vaz/Buehrle/Garland/Santana/Count) with a prospect as plan B. The deal would also be contingent upon my discussions with Ozzie and his feelings about Brandon. IF he likes Brandon and is willing to use him as a starter fine, but if he's not (and Ozzie's not going anywhere) than I'd be more likely to deal him. I'd personally prefer moving one of our other starters and sticking with Brandon (cause I think we'd get a top flight starting pitching prospect and than some for one of our other starters...plus all the financial flexibility to start resigning a couple key guys, such as Buehrle if he starts the season strong).

Both of these trade proposals would be absolutely brutal. We get worse in the immediate future with the possible chance of maybe breaking even (if that) cause I don't think either of these guys are superstar prospects nor do they fill any major needs. We shouldn't just be trading for prospects, now if we get prospects fine, but we better be upgrading our major league roster as well because there are deals out there that make us better now and in the future and this sure isn't one of them. In fact this is the type of deal that could completely blow up in our face. Not that Gonzalez doesn't seem good, he is, but I'm not giving up a front line pitcher for him (and yes Freddy is that, whether us Sox fans think that I don't care cause the rest of MLB still considers him that especially when you factor in today's market).

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 29, 2006 -> 05:03 PM) Like it, and I'm sure the Knights are going to LOVE having Vazquez start for them. I agree with pretty much everything you said, and I would like to add a little bit -Because your trading starter for starter, you still are able to deal ANOTHER starter. Garcia is gone, but with Ervin on the roster, Garland/Count/Vaz/Mark can still be shipped for whatever you need. Santana>Garcia(numbers and $$$ wise) and you can STILL do what you want to do by trading another starter for prospects, or whatever. Like you said, it just makes too much sense. Ya, I meant to add a portion in there on Vaz or one of our other starters getting dealt. I'd say Buehrle, but obviously he's our only lefty and a leader and of course you have Count and his no trade clause (who is actually who I'd prefer to deal because I think he has injury concerns). But ya, we could still acquire a guy like Pelfrey for Vaz or fill some other need Kenny has identified (whether its LF/CF, depending on whether Figgins plays) or even getting us a top notch 3rd baseman. I really like it cause it keeps the team relatively similar while at the same time making a bit of a shakeup that will make us a bit better now and a lot better later (which is something Ken Williams has stated are mandatory for any deal he makes).

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 29, 2006 -> 05:01 PM) This would mean that our defense is worse than last year, and any offensive upgrade made from Anderson to Figgins is negated big time by going from Crede to Josh Fields. But you see I don't think its that much of a difference. More specifically I think people undervalue Figgins who is a far better player than he was last year. Heck, even Pods (as much as I hate him) is a better player than he was last year. I'm not a big Fields fan, but we'd also have Mack's production and obviously there is no guarantee we get the same production out of Joe. Defensively we definately lose at 3rd, gain in CF (Figgins is better than the two headed monster we saw last year) and probably gain a bit in LF (just cause I think with a bit less pressure he won't play quite as brutal and will instead be the 3rd or 4th worse left fielder in all of baseball, LOL).

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 29, 2006 -> 04:57 PM) I'd like to quickly add that if we go with Figgins in CF, Pods in LF, and Fields at 3B, we might as well reserve our 4th place finish in the division. Lol, just as I made my post thinking its actually a good idea. I'd still prefer Durham, but Pods will be very affordable and I could see him bouncing back a bit. Plus with the pressure to be the only speed guy off his back I could see him doing a bit better (both defensively and on the base paths). I should also note that one of my main goals this off-season is to provide Ozzie with speed at the top of the order because I Think having that will prevent him from doing something ungodly stupid with our slower guys. Plus I think having a little speed will ensure Ozzie doesn't get super comfortable cause last year I think he was afraid to make changes because he really didn't know what to do and when he did they were just awful. With some speed he'll feel more involved and our team will fit his style of play a bit more (which I don't think is a bad thing, as long as we continue to stock our rotation). I fully think a team with those guys is capable of a world series run, especially knowing that if any of those guys play sub-par Williams would have the financial resources (and prospects) to replace them with a quality player via trade.

The more I think about it the more I make this deal even if we had to throw in someone and got nothing else in return. This deal just makes sense on so many levels. 1. Figgins - Gives Ozzie speed at the top of the order and a guy that can play CF. While he may not be the sexiest hitter ever alive, he still does a nice job getting xtra base hits and has surprising pop from time to time. More importantly he's a legit 50 base stealer year in year out. Plus he's signed to a very affordable deal. 2. Santana - Duh, we have an older rotation with a few guys due to become FA's (Buehrle/Garica). We give up Garcia and get younger but get a guy whose proven to be at least a #3 starter with the upside of being a #1 or #2 who we'd have the rights to for a lot longer (plus a lot less payroll). While Garcia may very well bounce back and be better than Santana next year, no one can tell me that the odds don't favor Earvin to be better for the next 4 years than Freddy (not to mention we probably wouldn't have Freddy those next 4 years). In addition this gives the Sox the money to sign Buehrle (if we want to) while also giving us a pretty well mixed rotation. Garland/Buehrle (if we sign him to an extension)/Santana/McCarthy are all on the right side of 30 with our lone older guy probably being 50 years old in Jose (who if healthy is still as good as anyone in the game). 3. We could get Donelly. While Donelly isn't what he once was, he still gives the Sox the final arm in the pen that they are looking for. Not only is he the final arm but he's a guy who has pitched in big time situations while being a setup man and even a closer on rare ocassions so in a worse case scenario (injuries, etc) we could use him in a crunch. Above all, we would be able to keep Pods (I never thought I'd say this) and hit him in the 2nd spot with Figgins to give us arguably as fast a 1-2 in baseball (this side of LA). I realize I slam Pods a lot, but I think having Figgins with him would take a lot of pressure off Scott and with that I think he's still a 25-35 stolen base guy (at a better success rate when he's stealing a little less as well) which would give Ozzie all the speed he needs. Iguchi drops down in the lineup replacing Crede in a sense, while Josh Fields steps in replacin Brian Anderson's rookie bat. We also have Anderson fill in as a 4th outfielder (or we could move him for a young arm) plus Sweeney/Mack who can roam around (mack filling in at 3rd from time to time). I got to admit I'd really like it: Figgy Pods Dye Thome Konerko AJP Iguchi Fields Uribe I know its not quite as good of a lineup power wise (but we have tons of power anyway) but it definately is one capable of manufacturing runs. And if Pods struggles, we would have more than enough prospects to be able to acquire an outfielder at some point in time. Rotation (obviously an additional trade could made and you could see that trade netting us a different left fielder or something else for all I know since we'd have 6 starters): Buehrle Count Garland Santana Bmac Vaz (Broadway waits in wings) Pen: Jenks MacDougall Thorty Logan Donnelly Aardsma

QUOTE(VAfan @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 01:25 PM) Chone Figgins is not worth squat, IMHO. He did nothing against us in the ALCS in 2005, has a poor OBP, and almost no power. He has speed, but so does Pods. If that's what we want, I'd rather keep Pods. Baldelli. Well, these were his numbers his first two seasons: 2003 TB 156 637 89 184 32 8 11 78 30 128 27 10 .289 .326 .416 .742 2004 TB 136 518 79 145 27 3 16 74 30 88 17 4 .280 .326 .436 .762 30 walks per year. Last year, in 92 games, he walked 14 times. No thanks. Crawford?? Sure, he'd be a much better answer, but at what price?? McCarthy plus Fields?? Would that even get it done?? Too pricey. I'll take Ray, though $8 million/year for 3 years is steep. Maybe he can be had for less, or for 2 years and an option. I'd just like to point out that you obviously have a negative bias against guys like Figgins. For you to even compare Pods and Figgins is ludicrious. Pods is not a speed guy, that was more than proven over the past season and a half by looking at his helpless steal %'s. Figgins is the premiere base stealer in baseball (yes, even more so than Pierre, imo) and he does it all while playing premium defense if you stick him at one position (whether its LF or CF). In addition to that he can also do an above avg job at 2nd, a decent job at SS and an admirable job at 3rd (although his error totals are a bit higher, he's still not brutal by all means, but he's definately no Crede). And this is coming from someone who has watched him play a ton over the past few seasons. If you think Figgins is garbage than I dont' even want to know what Pods is (nuclear waste???).

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 03:48 PM) Jason,on Aybar, how do you think he projects as a future SS at the major league level, and if he was traded for now, could he contribute now at SS, with Uribe sliding over to 3B in 2007 (or vice versa)? If we trade Crede, Mack and Fields would be getting the Ab's at 3rd. I see absolutely no reason to move Uribe to 3rd, not only would we be hurting our defense but we'd be stunting the development of one of our better prospects. As far as Aybar goes, I haven't seen enough of him to make any definitive statement. I just know what I've read and thats that he's supposed to be pretty good. But I'd like Figgins and than find a way to get someone else. Regardless I think we need a new 1-2 with Iguchi moving down in the lineup and Josh Fields/Mack getting Anderon's Ab's (but from 3rd base). Mack/Sweeney would also backup all the OF spots. Basically you get Figgins for CF, but still find yourself a LF'er (whether thats Guillen or a guy we pick up or Durham...preferably another guy that can give Ozzie more speed to work with). If we do that we should have enough speed so that Ozzie doesn't pigeon hole or force other guys to be non speed guys. Plus I think that would give us a good enough 1-2 to find a way to score when our big bats go silent (one of our major problems last season was our inability to find other ways to score when those bats went south).

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 03:41 PM) That's why many times I feel like Ozzie is the wrong manager for the personnel we have on the team now. Fact is we have him and if we don't get him a couple speed guys for him to play around with we'll be making a major mistake. You got to give your manager some personsell that matches his desire, imo.

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 02:00 PM) I agree, thats why Anaheim needs to include prospects that will update our sytem. Adenhart may be the best pitcher in A ball, but that is a ways from the bigs. They will be more likely to give him up then a major league ready player in Saunders. A lot of us are down on Tracey, but he is still a decent prospect. The way this deal breaks down for me is that the Sox are dealing one of the best big game pitchers in baseball and the best 3rd basemen in the AL last season for a young pitcher with potential to be very good and a utility player. That does not bring enough back for me regardless of contract length. I can assure you of one thing. The Angels will not be dealing Adenhart and Santana in the same package, nor would they chose Saunders over Adenhart when it comes to deciding which player they would rather trade. Either way, I wouldn't anticipate any deal that makes sense that would involve either of those two players coming to the Sox. Figgings/Santana for Crede/Garcia plus some combination of prospects makes sense for the most part, but those won't be super upper echelon guys. Like I said, maybe we get Donnelly back as well or something along those lines. Maybe they get a prospect as well. The deal is relatively close to being fair, especially when you factor in all things. Talent wise the Angels may do a bit better, but that doesn't take into account contracts and all that jazz. Maybe we do a Crede/Garcia/One of our better pitching prospects for Figgins/Santana/Aybar, who knows.

Ya, finally got that set. Still have to fix the subscription.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 01:40 PM) I've heard GG-caliber in LF, while above-average in CF And at this point, I am pretty much for any deal that brings Santana in. That would be solid. I'd say thats accurate. Whats important is that we give him a fixed position. Although obviously he has no problem playing all over the place, which is nice if for some reason we have an injury somewhere down the road.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 11:21 AM) Are people seriously convinced that he'll manage to stay healthy for the next 3 years? Maybe he won't, but if he does 2 of those years its a worth while move. Plus he's the type of guy, that barrin ga career ending injury, teams will be willing to trade him. I see this as a bargain considering the other deals being bantered around for starting pitching.

GLOADIE!!!!!!!!!!!

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 09:54 AM) Then he ought to sit down, preferably under oath, and answer questions about it. And not just about him, about his teammates as well. These guys want to be rewarded for possibly tainted performances, then they ought to help MLB and the US construct a complete picture of exactly what happened, who was tainted, what they knew, what they did, and when they did it. Otherwise, I hope the HOF voters use their best judgement on who was dirty and who was clean and vote that way. I wouldn't rat out teammates or discuss things like that either. Baseball is a fraternity and as much as some players probably hate guys that do roids, they aren't going to go around calling tons of people out over it. I know i wouldn't if i were in the locker room. Yes, he's a 1st ballot HOFer.

Santo One question...wouldn't the White Sox tell Buehrle no? Yes we would. Any smart team would be very careful with a young arm whose having inning progressions. I know I wouldn't want any of our starters throwing in Winter Ball and I'm pretty convined none of them will be throwing in winterball. Typically the only guys that pitch in winterball are guys that sat out a chunk of the year or that just show up to work on one specific pitch while barely throwing. And I'm very thankful you aren't a Sox scout, considering Santana is widely regarded as one of the best young pitchers in all of baseball. We are talking about a guy with one of the best BAA in all of baseball who has top notch stuff and would be under control for the next few years. QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 08:25 PM) When has McCarthy battled with tendinitis in the elbow and shoulder? I thought my post was clearly tongue in cheek, but if people are going to throw out some of Garcia's starts to try and make a point on how much he sucked, why can't I do the same with Santana? If Santana came to the Sox, those particular ballpark numbers mean much more than a "day of the week" stat. McCarthy was hurt at one point this year with some shoulder stiffness. Every pitcher suffers it. I'm not saying Santana can't get hurt, but I'm not going to hold a team being careful with him (rightfully so) against him. Nor would I hold some stiffness in 04 against him.

Mario and Jason are back. We quickly recap the Sox season before bantering about the entire free agent market. After drawing conclusions about the type of free agent market that is going on, Jason and Mario both offer up some ideas on how to improve the White Sox for the 07 season and beyond. We also give tons of predictions in what is a longer show than usual. Our podcast feature is down, but I should hopefully have that problem solved tomorrow. However, you can still listen to our show via this link (streaming or downloadable) Listen Here

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 04:24 PM) That's crazy. I'd take Saunders for Garcia straight up, and Santana is definitely more valuable than Garcia right now. Crede is better than Figgins, but there's no way you're getting 2 very good young pitchers (who you would control for 4-6 seasons) and a potential versatile stud leadoff hitter (if he rebounds), for a veteran SP with 1 year left on his deal, and a 3B with an iffy back. Saunders for Garcia would be an absolutely brutal move by the Sox.

The Angels are not going to give up Shields, so you all can get over that idea. Aybar in addition would be a possibility or maybe Kendry Morales (if we were insanely lucky). I could even see McPherson as a possibility, but his trade value isn't that great right now (Aybar is more valuable) even though McPherson is super talented (just super injury prone as well).

I'm a big fan of this deal. I hate giving up Joe but we have Fields waiting in the wings (and even though I'm not his biggest fan I could live with him at 3rd, especially with Mack available as a backup). That said straight up we lose on this deal, but I'd imagine the Angels could sweeten things with a 3rd player (possibly a prospect). Santana (long term) >>> Garcia Crede >>>> Figgins However, Figgins would fit in very nicely atop our order. Plus financially speaking this is a very solid move since Garica and Crede are due major raises (or in Garcia's case will be a FA unless we give him big bucks) while both Santana and Figgins are very affordable for the next couple of years.