Chisoxfn

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 3, 2017 -> 08:05 AM) I don't see how a deal gets done, but I would love to have him. The Bulls front line is just awful. Taj & Lopez are not what is wrong with the Bulls. The backups yes, but Taj / Lopez are not anywhere close to the Bulls biggest problems. That said, I'd be interested in Okafor. Our biggest area of need is point guard. After that, it would be great to upgrade elsewhere, getting another big, especially one you think can develop into something above average, would be huge too. How freaking bad is Okafor defensively? He's pretty smooth offensively so I'm curious just how bad he is at everything else that is causing him to get such little play. Philly is just killing his trade value. Obviously, Embiid, Noel, and Iliasyova are all taking up his minutes.

QUOTE (Brian @ Feb 3, 2017 -> 04:43 AM) I'd rather take Noel. Isn't he a free agent at the end of the year (presuming restricted but not sure).

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 01:30 PM) People have compared Allen to Aaron Donald. I don't think I've seen any comparisons to Donald. Donald is a disruptive force who relies on quickness and is largely undersized. Allen has three inches on Donald so I don't know that I see the comparison. By the way, I'm open to Allen and I'm not a scout, my view is he's going to be a good to very good player, but I don't view him as being a disruptive player on defense.

QUOTE (shipps @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 01:12 PM) I want Allen. Fangio can move that guy around and he will be a game changer on day one. I like the idea of obtaining more picks, dont get me wrong but this dude is a cant miss IMO. Without a pass rush you leave any safety you have back there out to dry even if he is good. Either way I think they make out pretty well in this draft and off season though. Allen isn't known as a pass rusher and he has had 2, possibly three surgeries on his shoulder. I am scared to death of Allen (maybe it is the White syndrome) but I pretty much am only interested in pass rushers, perenial all pro LT's, or QB's with a top 3 pick. Allen doesn't seem to fit the make-up of a guy who will be a total elite difference maker while I think the safeties can address some huge needs and have that talent, that said, I think I grade them more similarly and thus would prefer to move down to get them, cause I don't really see a team taking those guys @ 3 (and figure at least one will still be there if we were down at 7, 8 or 9.

QUOTE (shipps @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 12:58 PM) I would still want that for sure game changer with the third pick instead of a really good safety + two dice rolls. I think the game changers available at #3 are safeties and I view the top two relatively interchangeably and not being worthy of the #3 pick, so if a team had another player, say an offensive player they wanted/needed to move up a few slots to get, I'd prefer to make that move and accumulate picks. I have always believed in the Jimmy Johnson (and really to some extent Belicheck) view of moving down and accumulating picks...gives you the opportunity to be aggressive when you need to move up. Pace has also shown he is not afraid to move picks (which I like).

QUOTE (shipps @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 12:55 PM) If we can get him for our second and a third next year I would be pretty damn excited. You could still draft a defensive beast with the third pick and add Jimmy G? Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiit. My ideal scenario would be to trade down and grab the best safety available, get some more picks, use a 2nd and 3rd (following year) on Jimmy G and then obviously use some FA money. Could all be a disaster, but I'd be okay swinging for it.

By the way, I still think Jimmy G should be plan A (presuming we could get him for less than a 1st round pick).

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 12:42 PM) I'm kidding man. Just frustrated with the entire org. No worries. I enjoy this type of debate, just figured you might not have caught my edit, as I didn't want anyone to imply that I was saying, our plan should be to get Steph Curry.

QUOTE (shipps @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 12:38 PM) I always thought he was legit. Me too.

Not that it is a huge sample size, but the Bears also practiced with the Pats last year and through that, presumably got some additional insight in terms of how Jimmy works with his teammates, etc. We know I'm a supporter, albiet, there is obviously risk when the best team in the league is trading a guy.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 12:20 PM) Gage in your hypothetical you're talking about adding the reigning 2 time MVP, that's not just adding a good pg. If we had Steph or Russ or Harden or Durant or LeBron then nobody is having this disccusion but that's not happening. And if we had a good to very good pg then yes, we're still having this conversation. No No no...I was saying what would we look like if we just added the reigning MVP. More from the perspective of, with Steph are we a contender. It would appear the answer is yes. So my follow-up was, if we didn't get Steph, but instead got a good to very good point guard (which I absolutely view as obtainable given the FA class and the depth of the position in this league), then what sort of team are we? My answer is we are a top 4 team in the East with a good PG (I'll call that an 18-22 PER player). If we had that PG already on our roster, would we all be talking about tanking or would be looking at this team and saying, how do we go from the 3/4 seed to the 1 seed? Basically just stating, are we all wanting to blow this team up because we are an 8 seed with the worst starting PG in the NBA and a bench that has largely sucked (or at least underperformed vs. its talent) vs. having a more realistic view of being basically an off-season away from being a top 4 seed again (this assumes you buy into my argument that we can get a PG and with a PG, even in the class of a Jrue Holiday / Jeff Teague, that we would be a top 4 seed in the East). I'm not saying in the off-season we can get Teague plus another player (who knows...probably not), but it does mean we are that much closer to truly being a piece away in a star driven league (clearly somewhere in this equation we'd need to get better results out of guys staying around, better coaching, and draft well and actually get benefits of those players..so there are assumptions) but s***, that sounds a lot better then throwing this in the tube when we've never given Butler, a top 10 player in this league (right now) a legit PG to play with (Rose hasn't been legit in some time and even a year ago, Butler wasn't the same player he is today...he was great last year, but he's that much better this year).

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 12:09 PM) Well that settles it. The Bulls should keep Jimmy Butler and get Steph Curry. Problem solved. Read my edited post...I think it shows where I was going with my initial question.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 11:56 AM) Honestly, sat back, thought about how those Warriors teams worked, the scoring punch that would bring countered by the defense on the other side, couple legit big men... They'd need one more consistent 3 point shooter at the deadline somewhere, and I have no confidence in the coaching staff so that would also need changed, but yes I think that team is a contender for the top seed in the east and could hang with either of those teams in a 7 game series. I agree with you (ignoring coaching staff). I think we are the right superstar away from being in the picture of the best teams in the league (Curry would fit that bill) and a really good point guard away from being a top 3 seed in the East. I also agree that it doesn't mean we don't have other flaws that would have to get addressed though (and by no means is that like a "lock"). By the way, I'm not saying we could Steph in FA (even though he is a free agent) because I can't see him leaving let alone to come to the Bulls, but I guess my main point was, if we had a good to really good PG (and I really can't fathom a scenario where we couldn't get one this off-season), would we all be talking about "blowing up the Bulls" or would be be talking about how do we add one more big piece to help (again not saying this next step is easy)? I tend to think we would be talking about adding vs. selling at that point.

Let me ask what is probably a worthless question, but what does this team look like if you replaced Jerian Grant with Steph Curry? Does this team compete with Boston / Cleveland for being the best team in the East? Clearly the bench is flawed / inconsistent and I'm throwing out an unrealistic scenario since we can't get Curry now..but just asking.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 11:44 AM) I agree with this. If Wade goes, you aren't getting CP3. However, Kyle Lowry is a free agent as well. Goran Dragic is on the block. There are point guards available. I don't presume we will get either of those guys, but we don't know. Clearly we'd have to do some moving and shaking if you are going to get those players though, but Lowry would be a very good addition who makes the team better (both guards are on the older side, so maybe teams will be less interested in giving huge money...although I see no reason Toronto wouldn't give Lowry max money). You might work a deal with the Lakers for Russell (part of this depends on whether you think Russell can develop) and then spend FA money on other parts. To get Russell, I presume we'd have acquired picks in trades of other vets though (or a 3 team deal where a contender gets Taj and something, we get Russell and Lakers get picks). Probably not realistic, but if you listened to people talk out here, they are so fed up with Russell (and maybe I don't watch enough Laker basketball but it seems too premature). He's on my list of guys who shouldn't be on the block but are and I'd be all over getting him if we could (again probably not realistic, but there are all kinds of trades that get made where you go, huh, never saw that coming). Jrue Holliday wouldn't be a bad sign either (to address PG), albeit, I'd think with all the guard play out there, PG would not be a hard spot to get right in the draft (although it does take time for a player to develop). Jeff Teague too. There are a lot of PG's that will be UFA's who would be major upgrades for the Bulls (if they went that route) and I wouldn't be shocked if there aren't a couple of those PG's who don't get near as much as they expect (because the league is chop full of quality point guards, unless you play for the Bulls). Doesn't mean Wade walks either and maybe you can figure out other ways to be creative. It doesn't get you your title yet, but to me, it does bring you another step closer, so that you get to the point where you could be the opportune move away. If we had a legit 18-22 PER point guard, who could help spread the floor / space, we'd be a much different team, imo. I could say the same thing if our bench players played with consistency (and some of them have the talent)...but benches can be enhanced by good GM's without breaking the bank.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 11:23 AM) So you are going to tell Wade to GTFO and then tell Butler to recruit one of the guys Wade is really close to to come play for a team that has less talent than the one he is currently playing for? Brilliant. I agree with this. If Wade goes, you aren't getting CP3. However, Kyle Lowry is a free agent as well. Goran Dragic is on the block. There are point guards available. I don't presume we will get either of those guys, but we don't know. Clearly we'd have to do some moving and shaking if you are going to get those players though, but Lowry would be a very good addition who makes the team better (both guards are on the older side, so maybe teams will be less interested in giving huge money...although I see no reason Toronto wouldn't give Lowry max money). You might work a deal with the Lakers for Russell (part of this depends on whether you think Russell can develop) and then spend FA money on other parts. To get Russell, I presume we'd have acquired picks in trades of other vets though (or a 3 team deal where a contender gets Taj and something, we get Russell and Lakers get picks). Probably not realistic, but if you listened to people talk out here, they are so fed up with Russell (and maybe I don't watch enough Laker basketball but it seems too premature). He's on my list of guys who shouldn't be on the block but are and I'd be all over getting him if we could (again probably not realistic, but there are all kinds of trades that get made where you go, huh, never saw that coming). Jrue Holliday wouldn't be a bad sign either (to address PG), albeit, I'd think with all the guard play out there, PG would not be a hard spot to get right in the draft (although it does take time for a player to develop).

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 11:17 AM) I would take a a 21pt, 6rb, 3 asst guy, yeah. Blake Griffin and Chris Paul are two guys I could see leaving. The Clippers keep trotting out the same line-up and it's not working. Which is why they are making a huge effort to land Melo. If they don't, I absolutely could see some, if not all of those guys leaving.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 10:47 AM) Do you know who could help make his defense not matter as much? Jimmy Butler A third tier free agent who emerged into a superstar point guard (4 yr 27M deal...a total an utter bargain). A guy who even after playing great in Phoenix, traded for almost nothing to Boston. Going back to my point, I can't specify who we will get, but I certainly think we could lure / land players to make us better. Hell, we have had hot garbage at point guard and are a .500 team. I can't imagine how much better this team looks like with a real, quality point guard and there are a heck of a lot of them in this league, so I don't find it unrealistic that we could find one.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 09:13 AM) There is the obvious that it is much easier to draft a star in the top 5 then it is at #20. If you look back over the past three years, no player drafted is anywhere close to Jimmy's stratesphere today. So if we tanked in that period, where exactly would we be? Joel Embiid is the closest thing and he's done it for a few months and has an injury riddled past. Players take time, but Towns / Wiggins / Embiid (going back to the last three years worth of drafts) are probably the three best players taken the past three years (thus far). I expect Ben Simmons to be in that conversation soon. Devin Booker (13th overall) is probably the next best player (as well as Porzingis) and obviously the three names mentioned above were high picks, but when you look at 14/15/16, you'll see a lot of really really awful players drafted very early on. So no, I don't really think just burning it all down is that great of a plan. I think having good draft picks helps, but there is so much luck...you need to be the team sitting @ 1 when LBJ is there or Anthony Davis. I think everyone should take a look at the list of draft picks the last few years and just realize that getting top picks is no guarantee of anything. If we are lucky we end up with one superstar and even then, like I said, I don't find it that likely. By the way, I didn't even mention the 2013 draft where you are talking about almost every pick in the top 10 being an absolute nobody in the league at this point (with the exception of Oladipo, who is a solid starter, and the 10th overall selection CJ McCollum who is really good and of course the greek freek drafted 15th overall). I think it is more likely we can sign someone in free agency, make the right trade, etc (not to mention Jimmy takes another step forward), then the alternative. You all keep throwing out 30, yes it is getting older, but I figure Jimmy has at least 4-6 years left of prime basketball (and he works hard), so why blow something up when we literally are in the first year of ever having this "prime" Jimmy around. I don't quite know if people realize how f***ing good he has been this year and also if you look at our bench plays, etc, if people realize how bad they have been. I at least give this one, if not two more years of trying to build around Jimmy. We also forget that Wade loves Jimmy, Kyrie love Jimmy....lots of star players like Jimmy and he's going to recruit like a mofo because he wants to win like nobodies business (it is so evident in how hard he has worked to make his game better). We have a bunch of weak bench players, with no mental fortitude led by a weak handed head coach. Gar is a joke too by the way and Pax is the one overseeing it all so he clearly deserves fall in this too. Oh and the Bulls can figure out how to get a max player under their cap while keeping Wade. PS: Mike, most of these comments aren't direct at you.

This Pat Macafee retirement story was kind of interesting (given he was a pretty good punter or at least I thought he was). http://sports.yahoo.com/news/pat-mcafee-re...-055517794.html

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 08:49 AM) What is your path to a championship with Butler on the roster? Find other players to build around him. You start with 1 superstar so easier to find a 2nd. When you have none, it is hard to even get to one, let alone two or three. I've given plenty of examples of teams with one star who waited out and then finally got the right piece. It could be via free agency, it could be via trade. I'm not dealing Butler today unless we get a massive haul. I also really haven't yet seen a team succeed through a "tank" strategy, but I've seen a lot of teams suck for a really long time because they can never get the good players in the draft.

So I have a question for those pro-tankers...or maybe it is more a random thought. But why has the East sucked compared to the West (basically since Jordan retired)? I would think with all of the draft picks the East would be collecting over that run, you'd have seen dominate teams in the East pop up and in general a shift in power, but that hasn't ever even come close to happening? Now I'm not saying all of those teams in the "East" were tanking and the "West" teams weren't, just saying, that if the logic is to get good you need to get bad, then how has the same conference been so much worse for basically 20 years?

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 02:44 PM) Be there from the 23-27th. Flights to Arizona are expensive. Lot of us are going to be there during that time frame. Rabbit, Shipps, you, and I.

Great start to the road trip. That was a total beat down of the Thunder (who are really struggling since Kanter went down).

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 1, 2017 -> 07:01 AM) Malik Hooker has to have labrum and hernia surgeries. Maybe he will fall a bit in the draft. I still can't see him falling to the second round. If we don't take QB, I'm all over one of the top safeties (although would prefer trading down).