Chisoxfn

Don't stop now boys!!! I'll take it. Another good game for Denzel and obviously Jimmy and Wade. Niko too.

Ugly start, strong finish. Butler & Wade were strong at the end...Denzel does what he does when he plays...burries a s*** ton of threes. I hope he finally gets a consistent burn (and doesn't get hurt or randomly gets a bunch of DNP's). Niko played a good game too (flashed some of that good D I've been talking about). Butler is f***ing absurd in the 4th quarter of games. So many times this year where he is meh for 3 quarters only to go beast mode in the 4th. Back to .500...which means we are due for another losing streak. Really was surprised to see MCW in the starting lineup...he went on to wet the bad with horrid shots early and often and some bad turnovers. Only played 8 minutes despite starting.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Feb 24, 2017 -> 11:28 AM) oh my god. kaplan just asked forman about his vision for "what kind of team are you going forward?" Forman mentioned how they want guys who are going to work hard and specifically mentioned Felicio, Portis, Zipser and Payne ! Pretty damning indictment on Denzel if he didn't mention him.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2017 -> 12:09 PM) So, hurt your chances this year, then decide? If they were going to wait until the offseason to decide, they may as well have tried to win some games the next couple of months. Maybe I am way off, but I don't think Payne is a game changer. He isn't a good shooter, he isn't really a good passer. He does play decent defense, but if you are a point guard who can't shoot or pass, and rely on defense to stay in the league, you are a 10-15 minute a night guy at best, and will probably go 2 week stretches of not playing at all under Hoiberg. Payne has played so little that it is hard to say and statistically, most young point guards tend to take a bit of time before they start to emerge. Payne might suck, but he could be good. In terms of his shot, based upon the college stuff I saw from him, it looked like he had some potential to shoot, and his 3 point percentage this year isn't bad. The big thing with him is he's pretty small (needs to add muscle) and he has had major durability issues (if you can't get on the court, you certainly can't develop).

Zipers's ankle injury must be pretty bad. He will remain out. Valentine will reportedly be part of the rotation and obviously Bobby P will be starting in place of Taj (I would have figured it would have been Niko). Rondo will continue to come off the bench with Grant starting.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2017 -> 10:58 AM) Weren't Niko and McDermott the guys who were supposed to thrive under Hoiberg? Is there really a player that fits whatever his system is besides guys that are great no matter what? You would have thought both would have been good fits and quite frankly, Rondo is running Fred's system in the bench role (and actually playing pretty solid off the bench).

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 24, 2017 -> 10:40 AM) I stayed fairly positive about the on the court play, it was bad but still competitive. But February it just got to be a slog. Same mistakes. It's crazy to think about those first 3 games of the season. The ball being whipped around, 3s falling. If it's not Jimmy vs. Toronto it's just not that fun to watch. Was February really that bad? They struggled in those games without Wade / Butler, but they continued to beat some quality opponents. They have continued to be a terribly inconsistent team under Fred (and that has been the case for pretty much this year too). They have been 9-8 in the month of February and that included wins against Boston, Toronto, OKC, Memphis, and New Orleans. They did have those two horrific games against Phoenix and Minnesota (where Butler played in one prematurely and the other without him...but they were just awful in those games). They are who they are...which is a roughly .500 team who can beat some good teams but will fail to show up against other teams. Note: I don't know what they are without Taj.

If Bulls trade Jimmy...it will be this off-season and I predict Lakers will make a major push.

All this complaining...but I look forward to watching the Bulls play tonight. I enjoy basketball and Jimmy Butler always entertains me. It helps that my daughter always asks me where is Jimmity Buckets anytime a basketball game is on. When it is a Hawkeye game...she can't find him and asks if he is sick...when its the Bulls she always finds him and then gives me play by play of what he is doing, haha.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 24, 2017 -> 09:10 AM) I messed with the dates to show that we were all pretty jacked about Niko being rookie of the month two years ago and he has been either stuck in neutral or rolling backwards ever since. Zipser had a nice little run, but we can not count on him yet, nor can we be sure that he is going to be even a solid player at this point You are probably right...I can't be certain, but I've seen enough out of him to think there is a chance he becomes a quality rotational player. Mainly because he looks to hold the part defensively, has enough athleticism, and seems to be able to handle pressure and make the right cuts, etc. Great player...hell no...good player...no...I think his upside is a potentially solid starter, but more likely as a quality role player. We'll know more by the end of the season because I expect he'll get a lot of Doug's minutes. If Niko's shot was falling at a more normal clip, I think we'd be much more pleased with the results. He drives me nuts (I think I dislike Niko more then almost anyone on the board), but I'll at least give credit to his defensive improvements. And as row alluded, since I always rip Fred, I should give Fred and the team credit there. That said, Niko had so much hype around him...obviously what we've seen is far worse then anyone expected.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 24, 2017 -> 05:39 AM) I see zero argument for Ozzies number being retired. I'm with you. Had he not totally flamed out and had a longer run as manager, I could have gotten behind it.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 24, 2017 -> 08:48 AM) Just sayin Is that actually an exact quote or are you messing with the dates, etc. I still think Niko can become a good player...he drives me nuts with his stupid shot selection, but his defense has improved significantly (not saying he's great, but he's solid). He needs to let the three point shots come to him, cause he is too good of a shooter to be shooting as poor as he is from beyond the arch. I expect he'll finish the year strong (he's always been streaky so he's due for a hot streak). Zipser can play D and has shown a knack for making solid moves. Given where we got him, I'm very pleased with the value of that pick as of today's date.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 24, 2017 -> 06:15 AM) Zipser is tied for the lowest PER in the league.......with Cameron Payne. I've seen enough of Zipser play to know that he has some upside and a solid future. He's been hurt recently, but guy is going to be able to play.

Payne vs. Kris Dunn (who we would have gotten had we dealt Butler to the Twolves in the off-season): Dunn | Payne Age: 22 | 22 NBA minutes: 882 | 1018 PER: 7.4 | 10.8 TS: .420 | .463 PTs/36: 7.8 | 13.8 AST/36: 5.5 | 5.2

One thing to point out...I look forward to seeing how Zipser emerges this year. It will also be interesting to see what happens to Doug in OKC. Will he be better, worse or the same. I'll at least give the Bulls credit for not holding on to him any longer and cutting the chord when they did. Different then how they have handled things in the past (where they'd have waited one more year before they dumped him).

One thing about Cameron Payne is that he really hasn't played that many minutes in the league to give him much of an evaluation. He missed most of last year with an injury and then reinjured himself this year and got back in January. Supposedly he is stoked about coming to the Bulls. Now it could be that he is just injury prone, it could be something different as well. If there is one thing I look forward to, it is I can at least get some kicks watching a few new guys for at least a couple games. I hope that as we see some of these young guys get burn, we feel a bit better vs. worse, but that is me...I always want to find an optimistic outlet because I don't follow sports to be bitter or dislike the product...I follow cause it gives me entertainment. PS: I watch almost every Bulls game (and Bear) game. I went from being a regular watching the Sox to someone who could barely stand watching them. Not sure how much that will change this year until I see the product. I'm hoping I'll be more engaged with watching actual games this year, but who knows. Part of this is because my kids take a greater priority, but also, with limited time, I'm going to focus my energy on things that give me joy. IT is why I always say...I'd rather be the Indians of the 90's then the Marlins. Indians were damn enjoyable to watch...yes they never won the series, but they had a damn good run for a number of years vs. the Marlins who had two runs and garbage all around. When I look at the Bulls under Pax, in general, they have brought me lots of enjoyment and entertainment. PS#2: That press conference. Why do I get the feeling that Pax is just out there taking one for the team and is mad because of it and thus throwing out the wrong things.

Geeze...the more time goes..the more it sits in on how much I'll miss Taj and how he went about his business. I hope he goes to a contender for the next couple of years (and gets paid) and wins some rings. Easily the type of guy you want to round out a team with championship aspirations. One of my all time favorite Bulls. Its sad how fast and how far the Bulls have fallen from the Thibs era. Funny since Rose was the "star" and I never even shed a tear when he left. Noah, I missed, but knew the time was right...Taj I miss even more, because I envision him having a few more good years (not that I would have endorsed paying him). I think one of the biggest mistakes the Bulls could make this offseason is giving out long-term deals to mediocre players. If you are going to do that, do short-term deals (to buy time while you do other things) or blow it all on a player you think is really good. Don't get caught in between or be the idiots that the Lakers were.

By the way, both the Celtics and Bulls beat writers are saying Woj's report of the Celtics offering both Nets picks is false. I think my own report is more accurate...which is that the Bulls barely even talked to the Celtics about Butler and all conversations were driven by Ainge wanting Butler and not the Bulls wanting to move Jimmy. Lots of Bulls people (and even other legit NBA reports (and Woj is the best...just not at covering the Bulls)) indicated the Bulls had made it very clear over the past couple days that Jimmy was not on the market. If teams wanted to call, they were welcome to do so, but the Bulls were not actively shopping him.

QUOTE (Tony @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 03:37 PM) Taj get his numbered retired eventually? Did someone suggest that?

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 02:58 PM) Hahn seems to have done it. It took a while to get there, but eventually it did. This is almost the reverse Hahn though as in that case, it was the rumors of KW having too much authority and RH being handcuffed where as in this scenario it is the GM having more authority then the president.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 02:52 PM) Part of being a good front office guy is being able to handle the organization politics and get the org moving as one. I can't give him partial credit. What if you have said you want Gar out but the overall boss has said no or asked that you give him another year? One could argue that Pax would just walk, but none of us know for sure what the real situation is.

Had to make a separate post, but if anyone read Taj's quotes following the trade...it was true Taj fashion. He did say some very nice things about Fred. Maybe it really is s***ty personal that doesn't fit Fred's style that is making Fred look so god awful. Paxson evidently broke down when he was saying good bye to Taj.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 02:33 PM) The most annoying part is if he trades Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall and doesn't let those guys win the Bulls some extra games in 2002-2003 you are looking at maybe getting LeBron, Bosh , Anthony or Wade in the 2003 draft instead of f***ing Kirk Hinrich. Just think of how different things would be if the Bulls were able to move up and get Wade. I mean we never know cause Rose clearly doesn't end up on the Bulls, but still. Some interesting reports today(no idea if they are true) about Gar having more clout with Michael Reinsdorf then Paxson and that Paxson is driving the blow it up movement but can't get any traction. One of the radio guys said that he doesn't even know if Paxson would be aware of the Celtics offering 2 1st round picks (which seems ridiculous). I still generally believe that Paxson is a very good front office guy, although, I clearly can't ignore the fact that this chaos has happened under his watch.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 02:29 PM) Bulls had the misfortune of picking high in some historically awful drafts, but overall as you look back, Krause did about as good a job as you can of collecting valuable assets, he just could not swing them for a star. Ended up with jalen rose. Look over the past few years...not many teams have just blown up because they were bad/tanked.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 02:08 PM) You guys are delusional if you think 2 top 5 picks is some kind of guarantee. Next year's draft is supposed to be pretty good, but what about 2018? What if you get stuck choosing between Anthony Bennett and Victor Oladipo? If it's 2 picks plus Brown and some scrap, I would consider that. Just picks? Hellllllllllllll no. I am with you...I want three things. Bust rate is too high for me to do it for anything less. Brown and the two picks and I'm leery but willing. Two picks alone...for all we know you could be talking about the 5th and the 5th pick...if that were to happen and we didn't get anything special, it could go down as a total trash trade. Now if Boston has the #1 pick post-lottery, then I think you'll see the Bulls willing to talk.