Chisoxfn

Three teams could probably offer something that would potentially entice me to move Butler. 76er's (built around Simmons, Noel/Okafor, and their top pick), Lakers (Ingram, Russell and/or Randle, and future 1st's, or Twolves (built around Wiggins, Dunn/Lavine, and their 1st pick). I'm not saying any of those teams would make that deal, but I could see the Lakers / Philly getting a bit desperate. I'm not sure if I'd do any of these three deals, but I'd probably like Philly's the most. Lakers could get pretty desperate and their pick obviously looks really good too (in what is supposed to be a pretty strong draft...problem is, it could just as easily belong to another team depending on where they fall in the lottery). Local LA radio was talking up the Lakers going after Butler so they could get their superstar and they had Woj on and he said the Bulls would be crazy to trade Butler and their best chance to win is to built around Butler. It isn't as if he is walking anytime soon nor has he peaked / on the wrong side of 30, so as Woj put it, even if the Bulls whiffed this offseason, you still have time to get it right with Butler vs. pressing the reset button. Said it would take a ridiculous trade offer for the Bulls to move him. Celtics couldn't pull deal off in off-season, when Bulls wanted a lot more, and now they have even less asset to make deal, so sees no way they could pull deal off, without third team getting involved. I personally think Ainge whiffed by not stepping up because had he met the Bulls offer, I think Boston would have been the ultimate winners of the deal (in the sense that Butler would be huge for them).

Per @BradBiggs, Bears OLBs coach Clint Hurtt declined a contract extension and will not return. With team since 2014"

QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 08:53 AM) Nebraska is fun to watch. Glynn Watson maybe the best PG in the Big10. That was a fun game yesterday (despite Iowa losing). Refs were calling way too many fouls (on both sides) though. Jok and Watson were fun to watch.

Kyle Korver has supposedly been traded to the Cavs.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 01:39 PM) First return for the all star ballot and Jimmy is only 6th, behind Lebron, Giannis, Embiid, Love and Melo. Are Giannis and Embiid getting a lot of votes from their home countries like Zaza? Giannis is 2nd in the leauge in PER, behind Westbrook. No idea how / where Westbrook is on this list? Giannis is totally deserving. Embiid is an all star, but probably shouldn't be that high. Jimmy 6th actually seems relatively reasonable to me, although I don't have Love & Melo ahead of him, but Durant/Westbrook/Harden should be ahead of Butler and Steph arguably could be as well. By the way, that is purely from an all star perspective and who is deserving based upon production (not at all going who is the better player).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 01:58 PM) If they can get a Carmelo to NYY type of return for Jimmy, I will drive him to the airport. Knicks did a horrible job building around him, but I don't see how the Nuggets did that great out of it. If anything, all I blame is the Knicks front office for being inept and wasting a guy who for a long time was one of the best players in the league and an elite scorer. The Nuggets were in a different position in the sense they could either get something for him or let him walk and get nothing though, where as the Bulls have Butler for another couple of years before he can opt out.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 01:36 PM) My reply to this is...ok...I'm willing to consider that you're right...but you also told me one thing specifically, that if we brought in D-Wade, Wade would be the guy who helped us get over the hump in recruiting FA. So, bringing in Rondo helped land Wade and bringing in Wade both could have helped butler a little bit and is supposed to help us get over that hump. Regardless of how poorly constructed this roster was, and that was obvious at the time - that would all be redeemed if we landed a strong enough FA class. So, your plan is on the clock next offseason. Bring it. I never said the roster constructed was good and I don't recall saying we should go after Wade, I believe I touted that since we got Wade, I hope it is a sign that we can recruit and he can help us recruit. My view for things to work is we do need to get one, if not two, good size free agent signings over the course of the next two years (ideally, another one next season). But I also said we couldn't be a total dumpster fire this year, as that could really hurt the odds of signing a free agent. I do think it will be interesting to see what the Bulls do with some of the guys who probably aren't back next year (most notably Niko and potentially Taj) as they'll need to ensure they have cap space. By the way, another way to think about things is this, with Butler here, my view is you are an option for big name Free agents. Without him here, you aren't an option until you develop a new star who free agents would want to play with. Exhibit A is the Lakers. They are probably one of the most desirable locations for any FA, yet the past couple off-seasons, when they had zero proven talent (outside of a retiring Kobe), yet tons of money, and all they have done is whiff. Instead they had to spend their money on Deng & Mosgov for pete sake. So remember, if you trade Butler and blow it up, you are going to be forced to build through the draft, because the free agent route (to find additional stars) isn't going to be available. Now if people don't want to play with Butler...I'll take it all back (and we should dump him), but Wade seems to be helping Butler and it certainly seems like Butler has grown tight with quite a few guys he played with on team USA. His personality is the anti-rose too...so I very much could see Jimmy's personality and dynamic being a very valuable asset when it comes to recruiting. Did anyone notice how many times he and Kryie were joking with each other during yesterday's game?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 01:36 PM) My reply to this is...ok...I'm willing to consider that you're right...but you also told me one thing specifically, that if we brought in D-Wade, Wade would be the guy who helped us get over the hump in recruiting FA. So, bringing in Rondo helped land Wade and bringing in Wade both could have helped butler a little bit and is supposed to help us get over that hump. Regardless of how poorly constructed this roster was, and that was obvious at the time - that would all be redeemed if we landed a strong enough FA class. So, your plan is on the clock next offseason. Bring it. I agree, next off-season we need to try and land a free agent. But It isn't like Jimmy Butler isn't under contract for a couple of years. Rondo clearly sucks. And I echo my sentiments that if we traded Butler for what was rumored to be on the table in the off-season, we would be in a much worse position. Having a guy who is a top 10 player in the association, signed to a below market deal, is a good thing to have, especially in a star driven league. I will caveat by saying, its pretty clear I don't think we have the right people running the show (as I think I've historically been about as anti-hoiberg as anyone on this board). I'm also very pro Jimmy Butler. I adore watching him, love his interviews, just a huge fan all the way around. I enjoy basketball and a lot of people wanting to blow things off, were talking about how great Hinkie was as GM of the 76ers, but man, I would go mad if we were the 76ers, who have won nothing over the past few years, and don't have a player on their roster even close to as good as Jimmy Butler (Embiid is very good, but big men with injury track records aren't a good bet for long-term success, imo). Heck, look at the eastern conference and how many teams have sucked for so long which just further shows how hard things can be. I'd take my chances on surrounding Butler with free agents before anything else. I'm not promising we'd be a title team a year from now (far from it), but I think we have a better chance of getting there in the next couple of years then we do if we just dumped everyone.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 01:21 PM) I agree with your "two star" argument, but Jimmy is the Pippen not the Jordan. It's harder to get that number 1 star on your team, and Jimmy is arguably too good to let the team really tank into a solid draft pick. Since we know Gar won't go out and draft a diamond in the rough (he can't even draft serviceable players), I feel like Jimmy needs to be traded to cause us to get younger and drop in the draft order. Jimmy has taken so many steps forward, that I think you can win a championship with him as your best player. Clearly, building a roster better then the Warriors / Cavs will be tough, as they are pretty clearly the two best teams in the association, imo. I think the key is finding your serviceable players via the draft (since you won't have the high end lotto pick) and landing your big fish via free agency. Reality is free agency is the equalizer in the NBA and with the way players buddy up, I think it is going to be hard just to draft yourself a championship team. Technically Jimmy Butler was a diamond in the rough drafted by Gar...although clearly we have struggled to get an impact player out of the draft over the past few years. Also, Pippen practically won a title on his own that one year without Jordan (different era), and if I had Pippen and no Jordan, instead of dumping Pippen and hitting reset, I'd have been trying hard to get the next pieces. Of course, I am different then others in the sense that I value very good teams and don't ultimately view a championship as the definition of a successful season. If we lost conference finals, in grand scheme, I'd be content...sure if we lost 5 years in a row I'd get frustrated, but I wouldn't want to go the inverse where I could end up being terrible for a long time. I think people quickly forget how bad the Bulls were post-Jordan and how long it took to even get back into the playoffs (and even then, it was a really really long time before we ever had any sort of shot at being a championship contender and that window was short thanks to Rose's injury). To me it is easier to get on the short list of contenders when you have a star and need to add a big fish or two via free agency, then it is when you just have some lottery picks and a no star. None of the routes are easy, but I view the first route as easier and also less likely to result in a total long term dumpster fire.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 2, 2017 -> 08:40 PM) It's telling not the even the real Republicans are bothering to "fight the good fight" to defend Trump...there have been a few, but the total of remaining defenders feels like 5 or less, for what has always been perceived as a slightly right/fiscal conservative and socially moderate board (especially the majority of mods, other than Balta and a couple others). I'd argue the board is pretty liberal...do agree there are a handful of mods that fit the bill you are describing, myself included.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 12:56 PM) Yes, but since there almost certainly would be draft picks involved, in season, its not clear where those picks are in the draft and who is available. There probably is very little chance he is dealt during the season. But might as well have your ducks in a row for next June. Realistically, he probably has to go. We know where I stand on this, I think we should build around him. Guy is a superstar and that is the hardest thing to find. We need to find more stars to put around him, but he's also signed to a cheap deal, works hard, etc. I do agree with you, if you are doing it for picks, you need to wait until you know what pick you are getting (you don't want to get robbed in the lottery). That said, what if the Twolves have decided they need Butler (a more proven player to help take them to the next level) and offered a package surrounded around Wiggins, Dunn (or Lavine), and a picks? I think if you trade Butler now, you are doing it for a team who is tired of not having a star and has a lot of young talented assets now + a high pick. I haven't paid attention to Dunn so I don't know how bad he has looked (obviously his numbers have been brutal). I think you need two stars to have a legitimate shot at winning a title (not two stars and garbage, but without two stars, I don't think you have a chance) and Butler is a star...if you get rid of him, we go back to the drawing board where we need a lot of stars. You also need quality players obviously around those stars, but it is easier to find quality players then stars. In Boston's case, I really don't know what they can offer that makes it worthwhile, especially in-season.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 12:44 PM) Ric Bucher is saying that the Bulls are shopping Jimmy Butler..... On the bright side, his value is only higher now then it was in the off-season.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 11:26 AM) They had an elite offense with him for the second half of 14 and all of 2015. Hell, you could even go back to Warner. Cards have had a few good rolls of the dice with end of career QBs providing suddenly competitive windows. I view the whole Warner thing, somewhat akin to the attempt of Romo (or also the Bronco's attempt at Peyton Manning). Not saying Romo is as good as either of them, but you are still talking about a guy that is a probowl QB when healthy.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 10:49 AM) If we do it well we could be in the same shape as the cards with their Palmer resurgence while we find a new QB. I probably watched less college football than any year of my life. So I can't claim to have a strong opinion, maybe I'll learn more, but it was just my impression there was not a can't miss prospect this year but it was deep. So that's why I've been fine with a stopgap qb plus a later round vs going after Jimmy G. One thing to remember is, Palmer was the #1 overall pick in the draft, so it isn't like he didn't have a lot of talent. He has always been turnover prone though, but the Cardinals certainly benefited from having an elite defense (for a while).

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 10:37 AM) I agree with this. I'm in the minority on this board but I'd absolutely take DeShone Kizer at 3. His Texas game was better than any QB in this class. He has obvious flaws but he has a big time arm, ran pro style stuff, makes ridiculous throws, stands in the pocket, can move around, and is said to be incredibly intelligent and will impress in workouts and on the whiteboard. His games against Texas and Virginia this year were great. I watched his game against Clemson from 2015 and there were a ton of dropped balls. He would be my guy. I agree with you, at his best Kizer, had moments where he looked like a #1 overall pick / franchise player. The thing is, I still don't see the Niners & Browns passing on a franchise QB, so if Kizer does all those things, I don't know if we will get our shot at him. Trubinsky is next on my list, but there are a lot more suspect things about him vs. Kizer, imo. I think Kizer is a safer pick. None of them are the safe pick, but outside of the every 4 or 5 year generational QB that is there, none of them are ever "that" safe. All I know is, last year it was a weak class and then next thing we know, there is a flurry of activity and Wentz/Goff go 1/2. I presume we'll see that happen this year, question is which QB's make the big move. I wonder if Josh Allen is going to go pro?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 10:19 AM) Hoyer's numbers this year are better than I remembered, but you can't be surprised if a QB who is turning 32 next year gets hurt during the year compared to 27 year old Tyrod Taylor, so basically what is your goal next year - to add a QB to win games or to mentor someone else? You also mentioned Romo a post or two ago, which makes me think your goal next year is to win games, not to get better for 2018. I think there are a couple directions you go. I think if your goal is to win games, you go with Romo and spend a ton on defensive free agents (probably targeting Eric Berry plus another FA corner) and then wait on QB (drafting someone in the 2nd or 3rd round...say a Josh Allen or the Texas QB or even a Watson if he falls). Part of the Romo situation probably is more tied to the fact that you don't see any QB's worth taking in the 1st round / being difference makers (and don't believe in Jimmy G / AJ McCarron). I think Romo is still a well above average QB (if you can protect him) and he can give you 2 years time to find someone else. If you think Kizer or one of the picks is the guy, then I think Hoyer makes a lot more sense as a bridge (probably doesn't change your free agent plans a ton, as I still think the Bears probably look at an Eric Berry / CB signing as those are major needs regardless) as you can still compete (in the sense that you don't want things to be a dumpster fire, especially if your defense comes around faster...although likelihood of it being totally dominant is less because you are no longer using the #3 pick on a guy you hope would be a high impact defender right away) before giving at least half a season to your young QB with a bigger eye on the following year (and most realistically, you are probably two years away if you got it right with your QB, because the reality is, it still takes time for the young QB, if he is the guy, to pan out). I presume we will end up taking a QB @ 3 overall and spend our FA money on DB's (potentially using our 2nd round pick on a DB as well or a tackle). To me, whether you go after Romo, hinges on how much you like the QB's that are available (long-term). If you think a guy in the pack is a franchise QB, you need to take them. If you don't, then I think Romo buys you time to do other things (better then say a Tyrod Taylor). Hoyer seems like the perfect groom guy.

Cavs evidently interested in Rondo. Not sure if that would be via trade (as I don't know how salaries would match) or if it would be if the Bulls released him.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 09:43 AM) My push for Taylor is if you want to be competitive next year you can be competitive with a Taylor and not lose financial flexibility. You aren't signing a brock osweiler to market prices in other words. I"m not saying drafting a qb is bad, I'm saying that just because we have the 3rd overall pick we don't need to draft a bad qb. What if the QBs go 1-2, should we draft the 3rd best QB on board just because? I guess I don't see how Hoyer is much different (and at least he has a year in the system and is probably more willing to work to groom another player then someone like Taylor).

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 10:06 AM) No, that is clearly what Fox thinks, but local media, national media, fans, their handling of so many injury situations has been bulls***. Correction, the media doesn't like it, so they make a big deal of it and it gets picked up by the fans. National media doesn't really play it up much at all, but local media hasn't liked Fox from day one because they didn't get the "access" they were used to so they always gripe and complain and thus the fans hear it enough they think it is a big deal. In reality, it means nothing, just another thing for the media to whine about (which has no real impact on the actual club performance).

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 10:01 AM) come on man, this is the NFL. they all do that s*** Just look at the Pats.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 09:55 AM) To me, the press conference is irrelevant. If they come out and hang their heads and dont say much, they are crucified. If they come out and beat their chests and say they expect to win and compete, they are crucified. if they come out and talk openly about their deficiencies and what they expect to do, they are crucified. The only thing they didnt do is hang their heads and refuse to talk. THey talked about addressing needs openly, DB, QB, health, skill players, it was all addressed. The only thing that will make these end of season press conferences palatable is winning. There isnt much to say anymore, we all know the drill. We are heading to year three(year 5, post Lovie), this is a big year for the front office and coaching staff. I thought McCaskey's press conference was the best. He basically said, Fox & Pace are 100% on the same page and aligned and that while he doesn't want to be patient, Pace had told him from the get go he needed him to be patient and trust the process. I haven't seen any reason to stop. Think about what would have happened with the Raiders if they didn't trust the process with Reggie McKenzie (or whatever their GM's name is). Early on, the Raiders still looked like the Raiders, but they stayed with the course and despite Carr's injury, look like they are just scratching the surface of their potential.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 10:14 PM) Facebook friends know, so my Soxtalk brothers and sisters may as well know too: I accepted the Executive Chef position at the Ramkota Hotel in Bismarck. So, if you are in Bismarck anytime in the near future, come find me. We serve good food. Also, unlike most promotions, I'm much less scared about this. I'm much more scared of more f***ing snow. Congrats Wite. Awesome news.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 08:44 AM) I've mentioned before, but Tyrod Taylor is likely available. Romo may be available. I'd rather draft a qb that we've rated appropriately then giving up a 3rd overall pick and a 4th for garoppolo. I don't see any reason to go after Taylor. We know what he is. I'm all for Romo and letting him bridge the gap. If you think Josh Allen or someone else that you can get in a later round is the guy, but needs time, you can bridge things that way. I'd rather have Hoyer then Taylor, to be honest. But you can't ignore QB, it is just such an important position. I suppose I could see some logic for Taylor, but I figure he's going to get too much guaranteed money.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 08:30 AM) If there was a really good qb at 3 i'd be happy to draft them, but just prioritizing "getting a QB" is not worth it. edit: for example - getting Jay Cutler Cutler didn't pan out, but I'd still make that trade every single day. Was absolutely the right move to make. Now how we built a team around the franchise QB and the subsequent moves we made, were not the right ones. Putting him behind a suspect oline, having no continuity at OC, and waiting forever to surround him with weapons, were all major mistakes.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 5, 2017 -> 07:09 AM) assuming they trade back, correct? What if we traded our 1st for Jimmy G and the Pats 1st? I would presume Pats would make that trade...but might be a bit of an overpay for Bears. Of course, it all comes down to how Pace & company view Jimmy. If they think he is a franchise QB, then you need to figure out a way to get him. If they are less sure, then that obviously changes the price you are willing to pay.