Chisoxfn

Umm....these are two guys who are total bums. They invested nothing in them. This is purely depth moves. Why would these moves (1.5M for Nava and whatever small amount for Gentry and his .396 OPS for 2015) preclude a club from going after a major free agent.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 03:14 PM) Definitely a bigger deal to acquire Jose Fernandez imo. I wouldn't even know where to begin where we land Puig, Dodgers get Fernandez, and Miami gets prospects. Dodgers get: SP Jose Fernandez White Sox get: RF Yaseil Puig Marlins get: SP Julio Urias SP Jose De Leon OF Trayce Thompson SP Tyler Danish OF Avisail Garcia I'm just spit balling here. So you are saying the White Sox get Puig for Danish and Garcia. That would be highway robbery. Only way the Sox are getting Puig is if they give up a front line starter or give up at least one of Fullmer/Anderson + others as part of a 3 way deal which nets the Dodgers their front line starter.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 03:08 PM) I should know better than to read these threads, nothing but unfounded negativity. I am absolutely fired up about this trade and there is more on the horizon. The Sox are gonna be nasty this season. As an FYI, the poll (seperate thread) indicates that what you are seeing are the vast minority. Almost all of the posts are overwhelmingly positive. In fact, the poll has 50+ on board and just 5 nay's.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 03:09 PM) It's truly amazing to me how anyone could be down about this trade. Most who don't like it believe Trayce will turn into a superstar or that Frazier will turn into Josh Fields. If you look at the poll results, it is overwhelming in favor of the deal. 50+ in favor vs. 5 on the nay side.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 03:02 PM) Aside from a luxury OF pick-up (Cespedes, Gordon, Upton), I think CWS needs to brings Alexei back, something like 3 years 15 M (still a useful backup in future), he wants to reitre on the South Side and still offers a plus glove and range with veteran leadership and a decent bat at best, hopefully when he returns from Cuba he returns in 2014 form and with an offer from CWS, Saladino offers more as utility... On a side note, CWS really is depleting the system to compete now, I'd say CWS's only top 100 prospects now are Anderson (playoff addition in '16/starter in '17) and Fulmer (Middle rotation starter/closer potential), I'm fine with this though as the high draft pick and 3 in the top 50 will help replenish a competing team A depth chart of: C: Navarro, Avila 1B: Abreu, LaRoche 2B: Lawrie 3B:Frazier SS: Alexei, Saladino OF: Eaton, Cabrera, Cespedes, Garcia, Shuck Rotation: Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Johnson, Danks 'Pen: Robertson, Duke, Jones, Jennings, Putnam, Webb, Petricka, Kahnle Looks WS ready to me Alexei isn't getting more than a 1 year deal or a 1 year deal with an option / buyout for year 2.

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 02:25 PM) Frank said he'd pay him 4/100. I'm sitting there thinking Frank... that's not enough... 4/100 gets a deal done with any of the remaining outfielders, imo. The per year on that is enough to entice any of them to sign, imo. I think the more likely deal is a longer deal with an out at year 3 or 4.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 02:21 PM) Not sure how plugged in Frank is but he thinks the sox are going to grab Upton. As in, the Big Hurt?

QUOTE (shysocks @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:44 PM) Welcome to Soxtalk! The LaRoche injury stuff is from the very end of this blog post, which was written right around the time he really started to go into the tank. I believe injury played some role in his bad season, but with reports coming out of the Sox trying so hard to dump him on the Pirates, maybe the role isn't as large as I once thought. I think it is more that the Sox aren't as happy with LaRoche's fit and they don't want a backup 1B (plus they are trying their best to be as creative with payroll as possible). So in their eyes, they have better uses for the roster spot and resources (if they could have saved 4-5M). Realistically, I think the most they could save is $2M and at that point, I think LaRoche is worth given a shot to.

QUOTE (JRL @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:38 PM) I have to disagree on how likely a Laroche bounceback is though. I think theres some small chance, and once your paying him $10 mil to go away, doesn't pay not to eat 2 mil extra and hold out for that small chance that he does rebound, and if not just DFA him. But, Laroche is 36. A decline due to age completely makes sense. We're not in the steroid era anymore where players all of a sudden "magically" maintain their primes through their late 30s and even in to their 40s. Especially since I don't remember seeing anything about any injury that you refer to as heavily contributing to his awful performance, certainly nothing terribly significant. I agree that if LaRoche is here he should NEVER be playing vs lefties, but the problem was Trayce would have been his natural platoon partner and he's gone (not that I mind trading him, as long as we're not done yet after acquiring Frazier). Well I think if we add an outfielder, it means Avi improves due to playing more vs. lefties, LaRoche improves due to not playing lefties and bottom line, LaRoche had hand issues that hampered him last year. So while I agree with age regression, I buy into a part of his drop off being more injury related. I expect the LaRoche we see next year is closer to the LaRoche of old vs. the LaRoche of last year (meaning we'll see some age regression but given how far he fell last year, I largely drive more of that to injury regression and than just being burried). A clean slate to start the season will be huge (along with help).

I do agree it would be nice to get Baez, but unless we are giving them Q or Rodon, it isn't happening (and I'm not implying straight up...we'd need something else). We'd have to dangle or prospects in a 3 team deal (and you aren't getting Baez without Fullmer).

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:55 PM) Its not feasible becuase the sox are already paying two OFs good money. There is only room for one more, unless he trades LaRoche. If you add two outfielders, you are talking a ton of money invested in the outfield (when you factor in Melky). It makes zero sense. Sox aren't making two big money moves and they aren't going to use their other chips to get a 2nd outfielder. It is a delusional expectation, imo. If Sox make a 2nd move, it is SS or a pitcher (pen or starter or maybe even a prospect they like that they think can slide in).

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:53 PM) Because there's no room for Baez to start the way their roster is currently constructed and they need pitching badly. Okay...and none of the guys the Cubs get would help them in the near turn. Beck is a fringe starter while Danish and Adams are still a ways away. If the cubs are dangling Baez it is in a larger package for Fernandez or some other good young cost controlled major league arm.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:51 PM) Am I the only one that would like to see Javy Baez on the South Side? I'm intrigued by his potential. I bet Adams/Danish/Beck and someone else would get him. Why would Cubs want to move Baez for guys who don't help their short-term world series aspirations?

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:50 PM) I also like that we haven't added any major salaries yet (though we lost 6 prospects in at least top 30, and 3 in the top 10). I am pretty confident that we have at least 2 more big moves coming. 1 think 1 big and 1 more like the Lawrie deal (so a solid upgrade).

QUOTE (venom4789 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:45 PM) So does trace even get playing time with all the outfielders on the dodgers. Still think this is a great trade for the white sox. Puig will get moved, I think. Maybe they completely drop Crawford. Trayce is going to get time. He's got the defensive value that the others don't.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:42 PM) I would cry tears of joy if Hahn ended the offseason by getting Cespedes and Gerardo Parra. I think it will be one position player and one pitcher.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:39 PM) But its true. If they give up something worthwhile you can complain. The prospects weren't much considering the Sox need for a 3B. Monras may have been needed next year but so would a 3B so you traded a good 3B for a possibly good reliever. You cant deny that the Sox do not have a good 3B ready for next year. Howefer everyone says that relievers are wasy to find and replace. It is also true that sometimes a prospect is more valuable to team B than team A. For example, if I had Mike Trout two years into the league, and than 3 top prospect CFer's, as I value those prospects, I need to understand that my best use of those resources is trade (vs. internal purposes). Similarly, if I have a ton of middle infield prospects, I can't play them all. I just can't do it. So I either convert some of them for other talent or I let half of them go to waste (and maybe they all fail, who the hell knows). You have to pick and choose what you are going to use. I still love the Shark trade because of the premise that we really never gave up any game changer for a guy who has been a game changer in his career (he was coming off an absurdly strong season). Sure he wasn't good with the Sox but I would make that move 100 times out of 100. The Frazier deal differs slightly in that we gave up one guy who had a real opportunity (Montas) and is considered pretty good. Far better than anything given up for Shark, but we also are getting a guy who is under control for an extra year and is well above average at his position.

I kind of think Sox aren't going to stop with an OF bat. They seem to be hinting at being even more aggressive than that this year. I'm fired up. I got a feeling the next domino will fall before Christmas. Either way, the real Christmas gift I want is new White Sox world series memories a year from now

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:29 PM) I like your confidence, but I really think it begins and ends with wins I agree. At this point, Sox fans have seen too many paper champs fold. It will be critical for this club to get off to at least a solid start. Critical.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:24 PM) 100% Jas. Like I said, if they can star the year strong or with some momentum, I think it will make a difference. If they fall flat, all the attitude in the word doesn't mean anything. Which is why, given the Sox trying to contend, this team has to still believe in Ventura. You don't make this type of investment two years in a row if the Sox didn't have full faith in Robin to lead the ship. You don't hire a cabi to drive your Maserati (at least I presume you don't).

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:24 PM) The initial thoughts were the sox got both, not one of frazier or ethier. I know and I was shaking my head because Ethier has negative value. Ethier the player is solid but when you factor in his contract, we would have been doing ourselves a disservice. If we had gottne Ethier, either we would have been getting a bunch of cash from the Dodgers too, or giving up less prospects. If we gave up this same package and got Ethier too (without cash) my opinion of the deal would have been lesser.

QUOTE (JRL @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:22 PM) I have a feeling that Avi has almost no trade value. Don't claim to know what GMs are thinking, but don't see why he would at this point. Kind of like Viciedo last year. Packaging him with LaRoche obv will only serve to lessen that. Also, Mark Reynolds got 1 yr/2.5 Mil from Colorado. He would seem to be a reasonable comp for LaRoche except that Reynolds can actually play multiple positions and is younger. My point is that if we assume Laroche would get about 1 yr/2.5 Mil if he were a free agent, we'd need to eat about 9.5-10 mil of his salary to trade him. At that point, its probably just more worthwhile to keep him and pray for a bounceback, even if its highly unlikely Great post and I agree fully. I also think odds of bounce back are pretty great. I firmly believe his performance was severely impacted by injury. We also have a deeper bench and can better leverage him (i.e., sit him against all lefties). Oh and historically speaking, he's been an OBP guy (and provides a power left handed bat), both of which I'd consider needs. I personally love our team more with Laroche here vs. gone (cause I realistically see him being a productive player for us). You add in an impact OF bat and now the Sox can better play match-ups, keep guys fresh, and be better prepared to fill in for injury. In theory, we should be in a position that to maximize players ability at success.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 12:11 PM) i would be really honest here and remember i have been advocating a trade with laroche and prospects / players to sweeten the deal. but do i really think that will happen??? nah. This org can't afford to dump prospects purely to get out of a contract, imo. We are talking one year too. Absolutely under no circumstances should they do that.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 12:08 PM) Holy f*** I thought this topic had finally died off. NOBODY IS TRADING FOR LAROCHE!!! I doubt the Sox have given up on this notion. That said, I think they are better served seeing how he feels heading into spring training. Any dollar savings will be minimal (after we throw in the cash). Exception is if we have targeted another expensive 1 year guy somewhere else that we think might be a better fit to our puzzle. Problem for problem swap.

By the way, for those clamoring for Ethier (who I've long been an advocate of), if we did this same package and got Ethier, I'd be telling you all we got hosed and robbed blindly (due to his payroll constraints).