Chisoxfn

What is the status of Noah? Does he need surgery or is it a week to week thing? I got sad last night wondering whether I saw his last game with the Bulls (as I know sometimes dislocated shoulders can be season ending).

The other key point Lowe makes is the below. Nothing else to add. Rose plays like he has thus far and we are a pretender. Case closed.

Quote that stuck out to me was the below: What do you mean? If you didn't change to improve the offense, what reason for the change? The defense was elite so only one thing had to give. Just further proof that the change was non-basketball related and ignored Thibbs basketball brilliance. It just reiterates what we all know. The real struggle is Gar didn't actually do an exhaustive coaching search to confirm Fred was the right guy. Nor do I ever get the feeling that Gar and company (and Thibs plays an equal part in this for being a brick wall himself) ever tried to work out the differences or take a bigger picture look and say, wow, this is working, how can WE MAKE IT BETTER and TAKE THE NEXT STEP. Instead it was this constant battle and belittlement and thus you never had the "how do we make it better". The independent smarts / brightness of the front office and Thibbs was evident, imo (Bulls have been astoot at drafting / identifying talent...yes they missed the big fish, but their drafts have been outstanding). But you compare them to the Spurs and Pop and the big difference is EVERYONE is working towards one common goal and that has been consistently reinforced. I never got the feeling that Pax / Gar / Thibbs really gave it a fair shot.

By the way, I think the piece that will change in this puzzle will be Pau. That said, not sure how Noah's injury impacts those plans.

Quote that stuck out to me was the below: What do you mean? If you didn't change to improve the offense, what reason for the change? The defense was elite so only one thing had to give. Just further proof that the change was non-basketball related and ignored Thibbs basketball brilliance. It just reiterates what we all know. The real struggle is Gar didn't actually do an exhaustive coaching search to confirm Fred was the right guy. Nor do I ever get the feeling that Gar and company (and Thibs plays an equal part in this for being a brick wall himself) ever tried to work out the differences or take a bigger picture look and say, wow, this is working, how can WE MAKE IT BETTER and TAKE THE NEXT STEP. Instead it was this constant battle and belittlement and thus you never had the "how do we make it better". The independent smarts / brightness of the front office and Thibbs was evident, imo (Bulls have been astoot at drafting / identifying talent...yes they missed the big fish, but their drafts have been outstanding). But you compare them to the Spurs and Pop and the big difference is EVERYONE is working towards one common goal and that has been consistently reinforced. I never got the feeling that Pax / Gar / Thibbs really gave it a fair shot.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 03:00 PM) Yes. Personally, only way I move Pau is for something that is better for this team long term. It is an asset we might lose after this year (and the way things are going, we will lose him), so we need to not lose that value. I want a larger deal that nets the Bulls Boogie

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 02:58 PM) Yea we'll see how much teams are really valuing defense. For all the talk about the Cubs getting Heyward at a discount it could also just be teams aren't quite 100% committed to "full value" for guys that rely on defensive metrics for their productivity. Maybe a team option with a buyout. I think in Gordon's case it is the fact that he isn't a "sexy" player to go with his age.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 02:56 PM) But who has the team to bother with that? Carrying a player that requires a platoon that can play 1 OF position (poorly)? White Sox after we add an outfielder. I see no reason to move Avi (his value is probably shot but he can be a solid contributor against LHP and select RHP). It isn't like LaRoche should be going against LHP.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 02:57 PM) Because I think with Pau you're stuck with the only good lineup being him with Taj. He and Noah are terrible together and he and Niko are really bad defensively and offensively if Niko is worthless with his shot, which is been a frequent problem. Zbo, IMO, is more interchangeable, like Taj. Noah is your true 5, can play 30-35 minutes, and then you play Zbo/Niko at the 4, and Taj at the 5 or 4 where necessary. That gives you the point-center/defensive/energy big (Noah), the stretch 4 (theoretically, in Niko), and then 3 guys that can bang and get rebounds or hit 15 foot jumpshots. Though Portis is more the energy/clean-up guy at this point, but still, interchangeable. I mean it's not some amazing, problem-solving move. But the Bulls have too many bigs and the combos don't work IMO. Okay...so it isn't really "too many bigs" rather than a guy who fits better with our team needs / skillsets.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 02:48 PM) No way 4 years gets it done. If anything it will be 5 years with a buyout. I think 4 years and an option probably get it done for Gordon.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 02:47 PM) Or you could you know, allow him to have another 300 PA before August and see what happens. I'm not all that confident Avi is anything other than replacement level but he's young enough where IMO you need to give him another shot before you sell at rock bottom. There's not some surefire 4 WAR upgrade easily available to replace him. There's nothing in house and bringing in more than one veteran OF via FA isn't in the cards, unless JR wants to go all Michael Ilitch on us (that would be great but yea, zero chance of that) the Sox' best bet is to role with Avi until they have to make a decision in late July about not only his future but the Sox' odds of making the playoffs in '16. Basically they should just hold him and see what happens. It's not worth it to try and bring in a Gillaspie type that at best is a 2 WAR starter and anything better than that is going to cost big time in prospects or cash. That is what I'm saying. We keep him and platoon him with Melky / LaRoche and in theory maximize the value in all of those players (most specifically LaRoche / Avi).

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 02:43 PM) And i'm not sure a wing is necessary if McDermott is the future. I'd rather get a better PG than a wing. Personally, I don't think Doug is a starter on a championship caliber team. He is too awful defensively. Plus you are swapping bigs so I'm not sure how it clears a log jam.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 02:10 PM) If Avisail garcia could not start on a bad team desperate for offense, what chance does he have on any other? You put him in a proper platoon situation and put him in a place where he can be a valid contributor.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 02:12 PM) I did just look at the scores from 2000 to 2004. What I found was that for the most part the offense wasn't the problem. In 2000 they led the league in runs, in 2002 and 2004 they were third in the AL in runs scored. The offense wasn't the problem. Yeah there were several instances of scoring a lot of runs and then seeing a drop-off the next day, but guess what? The same thing happens with every team. The 2005 White Sox included. Go look at the scores from 2005, in the second half of the season the offense went on several prolonged slumps where they did exactly what you're claiming the 2000-2004 offenses did wrong. And again, the 2005 White Sox were the 4th-most HR-dependent offense in baseball that year and one of the most HR-dependent offenses the White Sox have ever had, so your favorite example is actually disproving your point. The pitching was the reason we won the championship. If the '05 team had the same pitching as the '04 team you wouldn't be giving any praise to the '05 White Sox offense, and instead you'd probably be lumping them in with the '00-'04 "softball" offenses that you seem to hate so much. Biggest problem for those white sox teams was the fact that they had absurd stretches of atrocious pitching out of their #5 spot in the rotation (and often times the #4 spot). Didn't they go something like 2 years without a win from the 5 spot (or something absurd). Felix Diaz, Arnie Munoz, etc. Injuries also played a part (Thomas / Maggs going down that one year). If they even got a few wins from the 5 spot in the rotation, none of it would have mattered in a ton of those years.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 02:14 PM) Going to play in Memphis with his brother may hold some appeal. Yep. Plus, I just want to see your reaction to Zbo on the Bulls, haha. On a sidenote, what is the Bulls benefit for this swap? Are we getting another asset? I'd think straight up Pau is the better player (and both are old). Is it purely because Zbo is around for longer (thus extending the window)? I'd have thought if we move Pau it would be to get a younger wing player (or draft picks).

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 01:25 PM) Fair, but in this case i'm right. What's the big deal? Because he criticized the coach? So what? He's the star of the team. He's earned that right. All the stars do it. And it's not as if he said "Hoiberg sucks, management failed us." He's asking for some accountability on a team that loses to bad teams and looks lethargic 60% of the time. On a related note: I don't get this at all. Niko's too slow to play the 3. If anything McDermott should be starting in Snell's spot. I don't get what Hoiberg is going for here. My line-up would be Rose-Butler-McDermott-Niko-Noah. Let Pau/Taj/Portis feast on 2nd units. As the game progresses, swap Noah/Gasol depending on whether you need offense or defense. I think Gasol is going to get dealt.

I don't get it. All I know is, I want more Portis and less Niko. Snell has stunk, but at least he can play defense and has hit threes (he just dissapears for long stretches) but Niko has been brutal and can't defend the 3. Good lord...maybe the plan is just hope we get lucky and one of these switches works. I'd rather freaking see Portis at the 3, lol. I presume it would be Doug, but Doug is hurt (knee injury).

QUOTE (spiderman @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 01:21 PM) Would love to see spin-off movies about Bobba Fettt, Jabba, and Yoda. Rogue 1 sounds good as well and I'm sure we'll get a Jabba some in a Han movie (maybe Bobba Fett by default). Yoda has so much history that his spin-off may not even feel like a spin-off movie. Still would love to see a movie on Darth Vader in between 3 and 4 killing everything in sight. I think Rogue 1 is going to have Darth.

QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 11:35 AM) SB Nation has an early mock draft with the Bears taking OT Ronnie Stanley. I really think that they'll go defensive in round one this year, though. I think oline is pretty realistic because I think we might target defensive playmaker with the cap space. I also wouldn't be shocked if we kicked the tires on Berry to shore up the safety position opposite Amos.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 11:06 AM) Shuck brings plus defense? I guess I didn't see that when watching him play (actually looked bad to me) and I don't believe advanced metrics liked his defense very much either. His bat is solid for a bench guy, but he might be the most overrated player on this site. Some posters have talked about giving him regular playing time, which would be beyond disastrous. Maybe I'm misreading the stats and I'd also argue the stats aren't that great because sample sizes as a platoon player are tough, but given limited playing time and playing a variety positions, he had positive Dwar last year. That has fluctuated. Maybe I should have restated my comment by saying above average defense vs. Avi / Melky (which is what I was more implying). His defense though is statistically solid (based upon the limited Defensive Stats I'm looking at) but also statistically flawed given the sample size.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 11:15 AM) Defense and it's not even close. Move Long back to his pro bowl position and draft a RT and all of a sudden that right side becomes a lot better. Leno Jr. has graded out pretty well this year and Slauson is a stud (albeit he's getting up there). I'm a big fan of Grasu, but he needs to get stronger in the offseason. Great upside there though. In other words, there are guys you can at least work with. The defense on the other hand has a lot of needs. Amos is going to be a very good player, and I still like Fuller (very inconsistent, but tremendous talent). You got young guys like Goldman, Sutton, McPhee to an extent etc. on the d-line who have very good upsides. After that though, it gets bad. They really need linebackers the most cause what they got now is terrible. Grasu is one of the worst centers I've ever seen. Literally he's that bad. Long has been a turnstile and the Bears are the most penalized oline in football. I don't know how one could argue it isn't even close. This is a brutal offensive line. Only benefit I can give to Grasu is he is physically being abused and Bears seemed to be aware of those physical limitations when they drafted him (and seemed to think he could develop into them...from a strength perspective). I guess we shall see.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 10:53 AM) Both should be top priority along with a QB its just depending on which they want to improve through draft, FA, or maybe even trade. But all three are absolutely number one priority and I cant place one over another at this point. I just cant. And that is what makes this such a difficult position for Pace and company. They are behind the eight ball that is behind a brick wall, so good luck to them on figuring this craziness out. I don't know how they can focus on those areas and QB. I agree they should try and target a QB, however, I think Jay has shown that with proper coaching and the right talent, you can absolutely win and contend with him. I'd also argue now isn't the draft to target a QB (at least not in day 1) given our other needs.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 10:43 AM) Im fully assuming that the Sox will land one of the big 3 at this point, so this thread is predicated on that. How does everyone here want the OF to line up in 2016? All of the big 3 FAs play above average LF defense and Upton has experience playing right, but his arm doesnt grade out well. Cespedes is athletic enough that the Mets tried using him in CF to disasterous results, but he might be playable in RF. If you play them in LF, will Melky atleast be serviceable for next year in RF? He has a strong arm, but his range already grades out poorly in LF which is largely considered the easiest OF spot. Well I think whomever we sign should play RF (ideally). I'd argue that Upton is not above average defensively, rather average, but different stats could point you different directions. I do wonder how Avi would fit in left field (vs. right) and I still expect him to have a role as the 4th outfielder (/platoon DH).

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 10:50 AM) They are not signing two $10 million plus outfielders And they shouldn't. A team with the Sox payroll can't add two more expensive outfielders when you already have the money invested in Melky (plus have Eaton). I personally think we are golden if we get one outfielder. Might like an upgrade in the rotation / pen, but the lineup would look nice. LaRoche/Avi can platoon at DH (with Melky ocassionally playing their as well)....plus you have Shuck who can bring some plus defense and solid offense off the bench. Sanchez as the super sub and either Saladino or Ramirez at SS.

On the positive side, Rose is starting to play better. If I were going to look at this season thus far: Biggest positive is general health + Jo's resurgence & Dougie's emergence Biggest negative is probably Rose's play...although I might actually put Niko as a bigger negative. Dude has been horrific (and from a value perspective, entering the season, he was our most attractive trade asset outside of Jimmy).