Chisoxfn

I think the Dodgers and Red Sox are two good places to look in terms of Q / Sale. Both have a lot of upper level major league ready (or already in major league) prospects.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 10:13 AM) Anyone else watch The Last Kingdom? Pretty interesting historical drama that I'm just getting into, definitely worth checking out. BBC does some good stuff and I like this genre of stuff. Will have to watch.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 08:53 AM) Keep getting older Detroit. He was who I wanted last year. Guy is only 33 and is a money reliever. 2.21 ERA and a .860 WHIP last year. Far better value than the Robertson signing.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 08:42 AM) then you say, "We have plans A, B, C, and D in place, depending how things evolve." I think they did indicate that they have multiple plans but they are still deciding on what plan is more realistic / the right approach.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 07:47 AM) They've had 2 months to figure out a direction to go in. To me, Kenny's comments make the whole organization look incompetent. But to me, the biggest comment is that last one. There isn't that much available unless they are willing to spend money in FA on an OF or maybe SP, or go after some proven names on the trade market. If I were a betting man, those comments are saying that they might go rebuild, and that scares the s*** out of me. They have multiple plans, the problem is you don't know how realistic those plans are until you get into the off-season and start having more in-depth conversations with agents and other GM's (and the most recent meetings help gauge that). All this said, if we are debating between rebuild or going for it, it seems odd given the path we went that I would have thought their was more to last off-seasons plan then if it doesn't work, blow it up. Still, you have a ton of roster holes and you really don't know how well you match up with teams and where the market goes so you always have to react.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 03:38 PM) Major blockbuster proposal: SP Chris Sale, CF Adam Eaton, and SS Tim Anderson for SS Xander Bogaerts, CF Mookie Betts, C Blake Swihart, 3B Rafael Devers, and SP Eduardo Rodriguez Who says no? I'd want Moncada as well but that is an intriguing package. Bogaerts and Betts both have nice early MLB track-records Swihart is major league ready and a change of pace as well. Rodriguez is young and fits into a rotation now. I'd do this deal if you pulled out Eaton. Add in Moncada and would do this deal in general. I like the idea of getting a number of guys who fit in as current MLB starters with the only minor league piece being Rafael Devers (who is years away).

QUOTE (shipps @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 03:26 PM) I am with you. We have really had to endure some terrible teams across the board so I am willing to take what I can get. Do I like all the guys on this Bulls team? Hellllllllllll no.....but they are still my team and I want them to win badly. They have a fighting chance against the East until proven otherwise and I have enjoyed watching them feel their way through this transition period to Fredbergs system. It is something people forget. Sports are entertainment. The White Sox don't entertain me and thus I turn my eyes away more then ever before (I can't stand to watch bad baseball with a horribly constructed roster...the recent Sox have been one of the least watchable baseball teams that I've ever seen. So little to get excited for on an everyday basis).

I do think Niko is going to continue to suck if he keeps shooting 3's the way he is. His fundamentals going into the shot right now are horrific. Derrick Rose horrific. Not sure what is going on but too much movement and just poor body control on his 3's (even when they are wide open). I know he worked a lot on this in the off-season and you can see he has the potential to be a lights-out shooter from long distance (and he is in practice) but part of that is translating the smoothness of your form in practice to the game and in game situations he seems to rush or think he needs to do more and loses body control and thus makes long shots much harder then they are. That said, its his 2nd year and its early in the season and part of the goal of this year is to be at our strongest by the end of the season, so getting development in during the year (while also making it through the year relatively healthy and in a position to be "fresh" for the post-season is as good as it gets). Now players will have to cooperate and given less minutes has no guarantee on health but I'd hope it should allow for fresher players and more guys getting minutes and true developmental opportunities. Niko needs to learn from Doug who is night and day as a shooter this year vs. last year. His shot right now is freaking effortless from downtown (albeit last night he had some brutal shots). Heck in the late 3rd / most of the 4th, we had more ugly shot than I had seen in a long time. Just brutal on what were relatively open shots. Everyone was missing.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 02:58 PM) We also had a Hall of Famer in the line up. In this deal, we'd be trading the face of our franchise, and unlike that deal, he is no where near free agency. I don't think Chris Sale puts fans in the seats. I really don't think a pitcher can help drive your attendance anyway, as they only pitch once every 5 days. I think you are overselling the impacts of moving Chris Sale. I honestly don't think the fan base would be dealt some death blow. Yes, if it was the Big Hurt in his prime, I could see it, he played every day and that allows for a fan to be more connected / emotionally tied to a player. As amazing as Chris Sale is, he still only plays in 20% of the Sox games (and historically even a little less than that due to injuries) so it is hard for that person to be as impactful on a franchise and overall draw. You think about people that are must watch and while their are some pitchers on that list, it is normally position guys. And again, I really don't care...I don't see how it could get that much worse from an attendance ratings perspective. Figure out ways to win and consistently win. Having a great player on a crappy team solves nothing. I want a good team and we should do whatever it takes to be good (and if the front office thinks that means you move someone like Sale, fine, sign me up).

The road trip will be interesting. Good time for the players to bond (I know not a lot of new faces, but still, an early road trip can be good, especially with the new coaching staff). It also provides a major early test. Either way, I've enjoyed the early part of this season and had fun watching the games, which after the past few years of watching White Sox baseball and last year's Bear season, is really something I have come to appreciate. I was busy screaming at the TV last night and fired up when Buckets had that last second block and that is more enthusiasm than I've had about a Sox game in 3 years (which just shows you the current state of the franchise given how we've been irrelevant by the end of April pretty much every year the past 3 years..which is sad and hard to freaking do).

I should point out, while the article is written to try and have an agenda that doesn't take into account the sample size, etc, their are some meaningful stats in their (for example Rose's shot chart breakdown) and I think really a lot of hidden positives for why, a it is too early to come to any conclusion, but B, why the glass is kind of half full (vs. half empty).

They are leading the league in opposing field goal percentage, which is an excellent sign and something we would have hoped would happen sooner then the offensive progression (since we were already a well coached defensive team...albeit we have a new tactician in Boylan). Offensively, we have seen signs of a really smooth offense while seeing major stagnation issues that would be expected from a new offensive system (plus an area where we historically were pretty limited in terms of overall offensive scheme and fluidity). Oh and I think a lot of these rankings are driven by +/- which is a s***ty stat when you had one particular game where we were obliterated. I think if you adjust for that Charlotte game (and you probably should, given the sample size) and you come to a different equation. Bottom line, we are seeing our defensive mentality still their (which was a major plus from Thibbs...now how long that intensity lasts who knows, Boyland has a strong track-record but he's not Thibbs) and offensively we've seen signs (including Rose minimizing turnovers and improving his assist numbers..especially in recent games). And while Rose has struggled with his shot, he has been so much more aggressive then any stretch last season (another plus). This is all while Snell / Niko have played like dumpster fires by (although Dougie has responded positively). Gasol is also starting to look more comfortable (as they are getting him more involved in the flow of the offense) and Jo is looking a heck of a lot more active (although still missing too many easy offensive looks).

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 02:47 PM) For those that are wanting Rich Hill, he is close to signing, Rays and Padres look to be the front runners. I get the reasoning why some people wanted Hill to sign with the Sox, but injury risk, and the amount of innings he has pitched in the last 6 years just don't add up with his age. I have zero interest in Hill. I'm okay with Buehrle because of the intangibles, etc. But I'm not bringing in Hill when I think we have some other in-house options (along with a trackrecord of developing internal talent). If we spend money, it should be on positional talent where we have proven we can't develop crap.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 02:48 PM) There are plenty of people still going to games, even at this reduced rate. Another "White Flag" trade would put the franchise in a state where they might as well start looking for a new home. This is a middle market revenue team, keep in mind. Following the white flag trade, we eventually went on one of the franchises best runs, so that might not be a bad thing. The fan base came back and was at its peak following the world series that was one again, following the trade. I'm not saying the trade directly impacted the world series, but the 2000 era White Sox were molded from that trade (along with draft picks, etc) and then a contingent of that base evolved into the 2005 champ. Additionally, this is trading your best player for prospects. Yes, it is a sign of a change in strategy, but unlike the white flag trade, we are not a few games out of the playoffs or favorites for anything right now. We are a combined 59 games under .500 over the past 3 seasons. Also, from an attendance perspective, while the white flag trade (along with other things) led to a 400K decline in attendance from the 97 season into 98 and 99, the Sox followed that up with the best attendance run in modern franchise history (with exception with the early new comiskey years where they, like any other team, benefited from the newness of the park (and a pretty damn good roster).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 02:36 PM) With where Sale is at in his contract, I honestly don't think the Sox could be realistically offered enough to trade Chris. Factor in the PR disaster that would result from it, and it becomes even more unlikely. Maybe in a couple of years if the rebuild still hasn't gone anywhere you think about it, but pretty much the price would start with a current or soon to be star offensive player, and go from there. No package of prospects would be enough. I honestly think their recent performance is already a PR disaster so what real downside do they have. Ratings are bad, attendance is lousy, the team has struggled. Are you really going to disenfranchise that many more people? All we really want is wins and if you think it is the right move, then you need to make it. If a team is going to go crazy for Sale than you should probably bite the bullet vs. wait another year (if we really don't think we can contend this year). If the Sox take a, lets give this one more shot thing (given last years roster) and then if it doesn't work, we'll move some young pitching / others and retool, well then that just doesn't make sense to me. You have no idea if your assets get hurt, etc. So if they think they'll move Sale in a number of scenarios (depending on how the club performs this year), then I think you move him now (or at least listen to offers). Bottom line is we need to find a lot of quality position players and figure out a way to become a good defensive team. In this era of baseball, you either find a way to have an unusually potent offense (and live with mediocre pitching) or you have awesome pitching and strong defense. Right now the Sox have a crappy offense, a crappy defense, and above average pitching...that just doesn't fly. And they don't have a ton of young position talent to upgrade the area, so they are going to have to look outside of the org to find the talent. Hindsight is 20/20 and I probably am making things sound worse then they are (as I still think with the right moves, we can contend pretty quickly), but I think it will be a challenge to get their without moving existing major league young talent and leveraging our young proven pitching to get position talent while relying / hoping our track record of developing young pitching can continue to be true (and thus we get to the spot where we have the defense, hitting, and pitching to become an elite team). Right now we are just such a flawed / patch work team. It was as if strategically we had no idea where we were going to go last off-season and instead of being strategic in where we headed, we kind of pieced it together and knew the collective parts didn't mesh but hoped the overall results would somehow overcome it. It also reaked a bit of building a team without appreciating / considering the current roster construction in baseball and the deflated offensive era and the overall importance of a run.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 02:28 PM) I haven't seen any that said he actually did. I have seen ones that said he should, or he could, not that he actually has done it. Given Dombroski's track-record and history of finding ace starting rotations (and building around an ace or two) as well as his aggressiveness when it comes to trade (and use his prospects), I would be stunned if he hasn't asked the Sox about Sale. Absolutely stunned. I also think Sale is probably the best chip to move, but obviously a lot of risk with moving him. You need to get a huge haul and you need to be extremely confident in your scouting. I'm to the point now that I used to be totally focused on pitching, that I'm totally switched and we need to find talented, toolsy, multi-faceted position players who can contribute on a daily basis. While Sale is amazing and awesome (as is Q), the premium right now is on positional talent. Pitching is just so freaking good that the old addage of you can never have too much good pitching is less true because their is just so much damn good pitching.

QUOTE (Capn12 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 01:23 PM) Some of us have been around too long! I remember many a night, being on the 3rd shift chat crew....trying to keep posts alive at 3-4 AM EST! Mr. Gamecock himself. The guy who think USC is a team back east

I think MLB would be better suited if they were able to make it where a slew of moves happened much quicker in the process. Unfortunately, without a salary cap, it is hard to create that sort of flurry that would be good for overall baseball ratings. I suppose they also like the fact that they are in the news for longer, but I love the flurry that comes with football / basketball. That said, with football, the off-season gets so boring after the draft.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 09:38 AM) All but one looked ugly. I mean i'm happy he was making them, I just don't trust that he'll hit a shot. He should be driving and kicking, not shooting 20 footers. I would argue players completely underuse the backboard. That shot is easier using the glass and he was extremely effective with it. I hope he uses it more.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 09:11 AM) Nikko is pretty worthless if he's not hitting shots. Rose still has the worst jump shot in the entire league. For a guy making so much money, and being out for so f***ing long, you'd think he would have developed one by now. I literally cringe anytime he shoots. "Trying" bank shots from 18 feet? Wtf? I understand complaining, but most all of his shots last night were good shots and he hit the vast majority of his bank shots. He was shooting a ton of short to mid range shots last night. It is the longer shots that I don't want him taking and with blurry vision I'm somewhat surprised he's been able to have some of these good games. Rose was very good last night.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 07:42 AM) The whole show is filler, there is no real end game to it. I am not certain what the bigger picture could ever be for the series other than what is going on. It's a show about zombies and people trying to stay alive in a lawless society. I think this is the best season thus far. Each episode is pretty good. I agree with you. I also think the Daryl episode is going to set-up a lot. Curious to see who this other group is and what they represent (this is coming from a non-comic book reader).

Bulls defense has been strong. Right now they are just so inconsistent. Niko was brutal as was the Bulls free throw shooting. Niko's D was just awful. Way too many easy 3's.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Nov 16, 2015 -> 04:03 PM) Just curious, coming from someone who doesn't watch TWD- Were all the conspiracy theorists correct in their predictions that Glenn would come back? No one knows yet and most everyone is pissed that TWD is stalling on it.

TWD was pretty awesome last night. Maybe just cause any episode that involves significant Daryl is going to be badass. Curious where they are going to take this and what the cliffhanger will be. Just two episodes this left till the break.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 16, 2015 -> 12:49 PM) Manning out for the game this week against the Bears. Maybe the Bears can actually go 5-5. I think, right now, the Broncos are a better team with Brock at the helm.