Chisoxfn

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 09:53 PM) Would if I could. What's been reported is not entirely inaccurate... Anything else on horizon? OF'er, etc? Or now back to working / grinding the next steps? PS: Appreciate all the stuff you provide!

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 09:47 PM) Bullpen is looking pretty good now! I still can't call it good, but having a legit closer seriously stabilizes things and puts everyone else in a much better position to succeed, imo. Next up, we need to finalize that Shark deal and then need to focus on OF. Technically it would also be nice to see what we could do at 3B and there are obviously other things that can be done to create new financial flexibility (e.g., is Danks available...Viciedo???). I'd rather pay another reliever 4M that we think is quality vs. give Dayan 4M. I think the reliever can help us contend more then Dayan (again over a shorter term deal).

Wow. Major need...lots of money though. All that matters is Sox are comfortable with payroll in that 100-110 range though, closer to that 110 number (maybe even 115). Why not.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 09:30 PM) Sounds like it's about 98% done, with the agreement it gets finalized tomorrow. 98% done still isn't done. If it was done on Saturday, it would have been announced. No reason not to announce. Clearly there is at least some posturing going on or Beane is holding out that something else goes down and another team jumps in based upon these leaks.

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 09:15 PM) There's no good reason to think Micah Johnson is ready for MLB. He played at a pretty "meh" level in AAA last year. It also remains unclear whether he's an acceptable defender. All indications are that he needs more time. Front office likes him a lot. Whether he breaks camp or not with the Sox, they still have Saladino / Sanchez who can buy time for johnson to get some additional at bats. Sox think he can team up with Eaton to be an impactful guy long-term at the top of the order. Not saying he hits #2 this year, probably more like in the 9 spot but in time they think he'll be a top of the order bat.

Personally, I'd be more content just going for a different option like Ethier or Cabrera and if we really wanted to pick up money and roll the dice, even someone like Kemp (but I still think its a huge risk). I just figure Kenny's MO has always been swing big and the Sox really like Upton. If we could acquire the two of them without giving up elite prospects, you do it, imo (let JR take on that extra payroll, haha). I am still amazed that the Dodgers might be able to move Kemp and his contract for a catcher like Grandal (and not have to send money). That said, no deal on Kemp has been done so maybe the Padres really aren't willing to do all of that. I'd rather get a solid outfielder and a 3B to go with a closer. Or at the minimum, the OF, a good righty 3B platoon bat, and the closer.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 09:09 PM) You all know I love Semien, so I'm frustrated. Shark is a fine pitcher, but I'm frustrated that we gave up the one guy in our system with superlative pitch recognition skills. I understand why we did it, but consider this: We now have holes at: -2B (I don't believe in Sanchez...sorry) -3B -LF -Bullpen That's a lot of holes to fill for a team that is going all in. It doesn't seem like we're good enough to be trading a potentially good starting 2B for a one year rental. At least I'll get to see Beane use Semien at SS everyday like I was advocating we do... As an FYI, I think the org thinks that Micah Johnson is the 2B of the future and had him penciled in as our starting 2nd basemen. I think Semien fit more in a utility role where he would get some AB's at 2nd and also at 3B.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 09:08 PM) Packaging as in making someone take his dead weight contract. That dude provides no value at all. No one ever said Johnson was worth anything, but maybe it allows the Sox to get Upton without giving up as significant pieces.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:44 PM) Not worried about the payroll at all. I think we have more money to spend than people were predicting anyways but if Hahn wants Melky and Robertson/KRod then they'll work out the payroll issues. I could easily see Sox payroll in the 100-110 range if they want. We did it 5 years ago, no reason JR would't do it now.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:40 PM) If that is the actual package, they didn't sell the farm off for Samardzija, although I'm not seeing what apparently others do in Marcus. It seems like the Sox are ready to spend. If that's the case this team could be set up quite well, Out of the two players, Danish has more upside, imo and given his delivery and where he is, he's still far away. Semien will be a solid player with upside of slightly above average. I don't think he'll be more then that and I could see him being below average as well. All that said, I liked Semien, but that is the type of guy you are willing to move, especially from an area that this org has significant depth in. I still think we should sign Shark to an extension and this is coming from someone usually very anti longer term deals with a pitcher, however, he seems willing to take a hometown discount and if he is and will do a deal in the 5 yr neighborhood (sub 100M) then its a no brainer, imo. Now our next all-in deal will be an outfielder/closer. I'd say something like Rasmus short term would be most realistic but maybe we'll see a classic Kenny move and Sox will acquire Kemp or Upton.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:39 PM) We were at like $63M before Duke ($5M), and LaRoche ($12M), which puts us at about $80M I believe. I still think we will move Viciedo.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:26 PM) If that #5 pitcher has a 0 WAR all season and is considered replacement value. Lets look at this another way, Kershaw was 21-3 with a WAR of 7.5. Did the average starter who made as few starts as Kershaw, did the average replacement level starter win that many games? I know there are other aspects that contribute but then go as far as the average winning percentage, etc. I don't know the answer just posing the thought. However, I'd also point out that you can't just add WAR's and say that is how many more games you will actually win.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:30 PM) You don't sign LaRoche and trade for Samardzija and go into the season without an established closer. If we don't sign an established closer, then heads should roll, haha. We have zero people we can count on in-house. I still don't get why we'd spend all that money on Duke when guys like Miller got more years and more money but not that much more from an AAV perspective.

Shark doesn't exactly fill our closer need, if anything, it makes the need to add other talent far more significant. If you sign Shark to an extension, you can be less aggressive with other roster holes cause you have a longer opportunity. If you don't, then you can't make a trade like the Shark trade without addressing spending money / making other moves to address other concerns (e.g., outfield + closer).

We know Sox had been tied to Upton rumors in the past and I am sure at a minimum, they will be inquiring now. Would think the price in a package deal w/Johnson would be cheaper.

I wonder if Rasmus or Melky + a closer are in our future as well.

QUOTE (staxx @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:22 PM) Let's not overvalue our prospects. A legit #2 for Danish/Semien is a relative small price to pay. See Russell, Addison. Russell was a much steeper price. Top 10 prospect in all of baseball for two guys who aren't top 100 prospects, albeit I do believe Semien / Danish both will have major league careers. Still, until we see official you just never know who may / may not get swapped out. All I know is the deal seems very fair if it is that, and if we sign him to an extension, then it moves up in my book. If we let him walk, it will be disappointing because this should be about how we can make ourselves better for our extended window. We are not in a position to give up multiple prospects for a rental unless we have some other major moves out there (I am fine giving up one piece like Semien cause it is replaceable but three quality aspects for a rental would be a bit different). I will say that if Shark is pitching well and we weren't in contention, Sox maybe presume they could then move him for another piece but I have to hope this is much more about signing him to an extension. If we don't sign him to an extension, we better have another outfielder in mind + we absolutely need a closer.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:20 PM) If that deal is correct, I can see why bucket said some might not like it. Sign the Shark to an extension! Do it!

Interesting. I am curious to see who goes with Semien but presuming Semien is the centerpiece and the other name is lesser, you can sign me up all day as being thrilled. Next step sign him to an extension and sign us a closer. I prefer K-Rod to Robertson. Presume we can get K-Rod on a shorter term deal.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 02:56 PM) By fWAR, the answer is no. League average is right around 2 WAR. Gordon's rookie year was the only time he even eclipsed 1 WAR: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...amp;position=2B Well than...in that case, consistent with my posts, I always knew he stunk, haha.

Been waiting to hear this name and I think he's a tremendous fit. If we intend to compete / try to compete, we absolutely need to sign a closer, imo.

That is really really interesting.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 02:42 PM) I also LOVE the idea of somehow getting Reddick added to this. Not sure what that would do to the cost to bring Jeff in but I believe adding a top defender in the outfield would do wonders for this team. Agree Shark and Reddick would be great additions.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 01:54 PM) If the White Sox are an example to follow, then that's not exactly true. Seems to me that in the past 10 years, the Sox have had several front of the rotation starters but only had one above average 2B during that entire time frame in Tadahito Iguchi. People saying that it's easy or that it's not as important have yet to really win me over with that argument. Frankly, if Semien is dealt, the Sox are looking at Carlos Sanchez and Micah Johnson as the internal candidates at 2B. Those two were both less than impressive at both AAA and the MLB, depending on where either ended up. All we can say at this point is we'll see. Technically, outside of this past year, wasn't Gordon Beckham pretty close to a league average 2B (when factoring in his defense)? Slightly below average, but close?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 01:20 PM) People keep claiming that 2B is one that is the least impactful or least important. Why? I'd like to understand the reasoning behind that because I sure don't understand it. And then I'd point out that Robinson Cano signed a 10 year, $240 million deal. I believe the Mariners overpaid, but that was a franchise that surely felt that 2B was not the least important position on the field and they almost clinched a Wild Card spot last year and are in great position to do so this year. Most people reacted extremely negative to that deal because it was less important / less impactful. Bottom line is a league average 2B is not near as productive / valuable as say a league average cf'er, etc. Basically put, standards are less. Is it easier to find a league average centerfielder or a league average catcher? I know someone will say, league average is league average, however, I tend to view it from the standpoint, guys with less tools, less overall credentials, prospect status, etc, have a higher probability of being league average at say catcher / 2B than other positions. A lot of that, in regards to 2B, is driven by the fact that the position doesn't require as many tools or as good of tools to succeed than other positions. Cano signed for such big money (and if you remember, it was significantly more then any other team offered) because the Mariners needed to overpay to sign him but they also needed to drastically change their culture and try to find a bat that could play in that stadium. Cano is a very special hitter and will go down as one of, if not, the greatest 2B to ever play the game and even than, I don't know that long term that deal will be all that great and it was an extreme overpay by a team who had to, to bring in an impact bat and try to drive a contender. Sox also have 4 guys who could potentially play 2B as well.