Chisoxfn

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Oct 20, 2014 -> 12:38 PM) He's not THAT good, at least not yet. He really needs another year. Another year under BK would do wonders for him. I can't imagine a QB his size gets drafted early enough that it makes sense for Everett to leave for the pro game. He has become a pretty accurate passer though and just an overall good reader of the defense. He clearly has to work on cleaning up his handling of the football, especially when he's running, etc. Plus how he handled his off the field issues and how much he developed while away from the game, is impressive, and a positive indicator if I'm an NFL scout regarding his ability to work, overcome adversity, etc.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 20, 2014 -> 12:06 PM) See last year when Trestman and the Bears had the best QB in the league for 6 games. And you know what he didn't do in those games? Turn the ball over. I think he had 8 td's to one interception. McCown got very lucky with that ratio. He threw a lot of dropped picks and had quite a few bail out Jeffrey catches.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 20, 2014 -> 10:35 AM) There are so many issues I don't even know where to point fingers. The whole organization outside of potentially the GM seems to be ineffective right now (and by default, that pretty much makes him ineffective). I can't say this is on the players, or the coaches, or the defense or the offense. They suck all-around one week, play well enough to make us change our minds the next, I just don't get it. To me, it ultimately comes down to a lack of leadership, if I had to guess, and that falls on Trestman, as he is the HC. I also really question our in game personell moves. I don't understand DJ Williams playing. He's had little impact on the season and we saw positive impact out of younger players yet stick with Williams. I do like our LB coach as we have seen progress at a position with a limited talent pool but question who we started. I also have a hard time how open guys tend to be against our defense. Our coverage, both in the secondary and at LB is just bad and I think some of that has to do with the scheme. Tucker seems to get pants from a pure X's and O's standpoint most weeks. This week it looked like we had literally no idea that Tannehill was athletic and they run a lot of those zone reads. I also want to point out that when Holmes is in the game, for whatever reason, we tend to play very very poorly. Anything in the remote direction of him tends to be a disaster. Not blaming Holmes per say, just stating that we have got to find another option or figure something out because the productivity out of our top wideouts has been bad as it is, let alone any production from depth guys. I realize no / limited training camps from both Holmes / Morgan, but at this point in the season, whether its Jay or others, they got to figure out a way to right this ship.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Oct 20, 2014 -> 10:32 AM) I agree with a lot of points. I personally like Trestman. He's still a little rough around the edges with his coaching ability. However, Jay has a tendency to be a boom or bust QB. When's he hot, he's hot and when he's not he's not. He is just too inconsistent of a QB to be paid what he does. The one thing that kills me, is by and large, this year Jay has actually been very good. Unfortunately other issues have cropped up that have put further magnitude on some mistakes that he makes and that most QB's make. His QB rating has been very strong in all of his games and this really was his worse game but it also appears that in many games we have hand cuffed him with question play calling. It also seems like in all of our losses we have certain drives killed by other offensive players coughing up the football after a Jay turnover too, which further amplifies the issue. My point being, we are not a very precise team across the board. Yes, players deserve blame for that but so do coaches. This past week was the worst game of the season for me because we literally didn't look prepared. I was upset with other games, with the other one being the Carolina game where I feel our play calling, amongst other things, singlehandedly lost us that game. Buffalo game I give some excuses for since we were pretty much playing without our top wideouts for a good chunk of the 2nd half. There is no excuse for what happened against Miami and against Carolina. None. Even GB, I'll give some excuse cause our defense has no chance against Rodgers.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Oct 20, 2014 -> 09:40 AM) I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the warning always gets issued right after the anti-ND side gets in another jab before I can respond. I am a Notre Dame fan. Killed me that we lost a game which we outplayed them most of the game (especially in the first half). That said, I tip my cap to Winston for getting hot and just dominating our defense in the 2nd half (and they did out play us in the 2nd half, just not as greatly as we outplayed them in the 1st half). I'm ending the argument because everyone has had ample opportunities to debate their point and at this point, it is time for everyone to move on to further discussion (vs. beating a dead horse further dead). Everyone has had ample discussion on the issue, now it is time to move on.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 20, 2014 -> 10:21 AM) I don't really see Trestman being the fall guy here. I know in reality he's hooked to Jay, so if Jay is run out of town, so will he, but there's no way the Bears are giving up on Trestman after 2 or 3 seasons. They're putting up historical franchise numbers. An offense the franchise has never seen before. The system is fine, it's the player (QB) running it that's the problem. That's not to say Trestman doesn't have some faults - his time out usage, his end of half management, etc. are all a little puzzling (at least there's a theory behind it, even if I don't agree). And even his play calling seems too boom or bust (calling a bomb on 3rd and 1 instead of just getting the first down.) But that's not the MAIN problem on offense. The problem with this team is Cutler. And yeah, that might be my anti-Cutler homerism coming in to play a bit, but when the guy doesn't turn the ball over, the team wins. And they score a ton of points. When he plays like s***, the defense is on the field way too long and they lose. It's that simple. It can't be ALL the coach if the same plays result in wins and scoring and big plays when the QB makes the right decision. For next year, my wish is that Rex Ryan gets canned in New York and agrees to be the DC in Chicago like his daddy. We are 20th in the league in offense. That is unacceptable under any standard and if we stick at that point, with all the other stuff, including intangibles, then things need to change. If we finished the year with a top 8 offense and a bottom 10 defense, I'm okay with Trestman staying around. However, a poor offensive production, without legitimate excuses such as significant injuries, is just unacceptable when combined with everything else. Rex Ryan would be great for our defense but he likely gets another head coaching gig.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 20, 2014 -> 10:16 AM) I'll trust PFF after thinking it was dumb for calling Mills horrible, when as soon as we stopped helping him in protection in favor of Bushrod he promptly is a sieve. I still wonder how Briggs gets that good of a grade on the season though cause he's had a few solid games but also some stinkers. I agree on Mills. I think it is time for Ola to start. Not writing Mills off, just saying we need to make a change there because there were a few times where Mills couldn't hold his block and a split second longer and we have a different outcome. There were a couple open big play shots that weren't able to happen because of Mills. Either way, we've seen this team be resilient and we need them to be after that performance. Come back and get back to .500 with a win on the road against New England and you again keep some opportunities around, especially with plenty of divisional games left.

If San Fran lets Harbaugh leave, I'll be the first to welcome him in Chicago! I don't care who likes you as long as you consistently win football games and don't have off the field issues.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 20, 2014 -> 09:10 AM) Well news flash to the media, screaming an yelling goes on in locker rooms, in every sport, on every team. Also, not all players get along all the time, on every team, in every sport. Probably most so in football. So many different personalities and so many players.

Alright, I'm issuing a warning. The ND argument is done. On both sides. Its over. Its been two days, give it a rest. Everyone has had plenty of time to chat through their opinions. Any future posts on the matter will be removed and warnings / suspensions issued.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 20, 2014 -> 08:58 AM) I agree. Trestman's offense is just way too complicated. There are way too many sight adjustments to turn a 5 yard play into a 7 yard play and instead it ends up being an INT. I was thinking yesterday, if Mike Martz or Ron Turner had this offensive talent, would they be better or worse than this? I honestly am not sure it would be worse. Jay would get sacked a lot more under Martz, but he also had an offense with Knox and Hester as WR1 and WR2, and Webb as starting LT look pretty damn good through 10 games before Jay broke his finger. I'm just very frustrated at this point. That was an excellent coaching class that we quite possibly swung and missed on. I feel like the bears just drafted Darko. I'm with you. In reality, these next few weeks are going to be key to Trestman's and Cutler's career. Trestman can survive a season with strong offense and poor defense but both he has no chance of sticking around (or at least shouldn't). And at the same time, Jay doesn't deserve to stick around either if that happens. If we go with a new coach then we need to figure out a way to get rid of Jay too. He doens't get to play with another coach. That said, they have time to get the offense righted and I don't know if some of this is Kromer calling plays vs. Trestman or what. I don't know but the offense has to be fixed. 2 carries, odd as play calls on 3rd and 1. We consistently are outcoached and poor clock management. I really don't like the fact that Jay has no idea what was wrong with the pick to Marty saying taht is where he should have thrown the ball. I had zero clue where that ball was going but was hoping somehow he underthrew it to Holmes or something cause there was no way that ball is completed to Marty (what an awful read). He could have said I thought it was X, but Y happened, but he literally said that is where the ball should have gone. Sorry buddy, not on that play. PS: It is too bad things went bad in those other games cause that is why this loss hurts so much more. Bears pull out a couple of the games they should have and the talk is about this being Cutler's bad game, blah blah blah. Difference between winning and losing is very minimal and that is why execution and playing with professionalism is so important. Mags, one last point, you hit the nail on the head to me. It seems like there is a lot more variability in routes in this offense then a typical offense and that can lead to many more instances of miscommunication where QB reads one thing, WR another.

PS: I really like Robbie Gould http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...1020-story.html

On a sidenote, was it just me, or did it look like we weren't prepared to play on either side of the ball. Between Trestman's clock management and the fact that he kept Tucker and Decamillis around...if this offense keeps playing this poorly, we might be looking at a new coach next year. If we are scoring this few points per game without legitimate excuses as to why, I think it is time to consider the fact that the league was right about Trestman and he isn't head coaching material. I'd also say the same thing about Jay. They better get this offense rolling.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 05:53 PM) Which is pathetic. Fans have a right to boo when they overpay for tickets and the team (0-3 at home) does not do **** when expectations were so high. The fans were pathetic. In the first half there were numerous times on 3rd down the bulk of the stadium was and the noise in general was quiet. Not the fans fault but still pathetic none the less.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 11:09 AM) So I guess Trestman's not going to call time and try to drive the ball with 45 seconds? I was so pissed when we were down 14 and had a shot to get the ball back with 2 more timeouts left (after using one to stop the clock at 45 seconds). That was just a disaster....so was the rest of the game on all phases. I am pretty much speachless. Horrific. We weren't ready to play and a lot of guys didn't show up. Jay deserves the heat for this one too. It was his worse game of the season.

Not sure how it works but I think you could trade for him and pretty much cut him if you were Bears but that 10M base contract is pretty high for Harvin, given the other guys we have and his injury history. I do expect us to draft a wideout in the first 3 rounds this year, unless of course Wilson takes off.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 02:57 PM) Bears don't have luxury of trading picks for a 3rd receiver. Is that what pick it is or is? When I see conditional mid round pick, I figure that means if he kicks butt he's a 3rd or 4th round pick, otherwise even less. While I agree we don't need to invest much in him, the reality of trading players in the NFL means that the Seahawks take the brunt of the cap hit (doesn't all of his guaranteed money get fronted via the trade and thus Seahawks take a killing and now new base is much lower for future teams who sign him) thus making Harvin pretty minimal impact on our cap (I believe). No idea what his contract is like but his element happens to fill a major need in our system.

I would have added him to the Bears at that price. Perfect fit in the slot and to help our atrocious return game.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 11:25 AM) Just touching on Dayan's "room for growth" -- look at his comps through 25 on b-ref: Willie Montanez (971) George Hendrick (968) Jeremy Hermida (964) Rick Reichardt (958) Dick Kokos (955) Carmelo Martinez (954) Charlie Spikes (954) Andy Van Slyke (953) Cliff Floyd (950) Luis Gonzalez (949) Not exactly a row of guys that turned into average or even above average players. Hendrick had a nice career but he put together a season (124 OPS+) at 24 that Dayan could only dream about. Van Slyke obviously was on teh complete opposite side of the spectrum with defensive value. Dayan reminds me of Wily Mo Pena. Crap defense, crap running, solid power, even good power, but no on base skills, no contact skills. Mo washed out of the league after he proved he couldn't hit enough to stick as a regular. I can see Dayan going to Japan in a few years and having a good career, but I can't see him having a good career in MLB without a major, major jump in contact skill or patience. Things that just aren't likely to happen. Technically speaking, those last three players on that list all had some pretty impressive runs.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 11:22 AM) Raise your hands if you remember a DJ williams play as a Chicago Bear. Linebacker is one of the few defensive positions that when you don't notice a player, it is typically a bad thing. I do recall he had a couple nice plays early last season before getting hurt. Shea, I can think of times I've noticed him where it is good and bad but you at least see that he's been in position to make plays, etc. Bostic is the guy I still don't think isn't very good either but we'll see. I also don't like fact that he's this young with back injuries in the NFL.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 11:17 AM) Excited to have some more depth at LB. Still hope that Sharpton plays. Sharpton was solid last year too. I think he should be playing. We'll see what happens. I really have not been impressed by DJ Williams at all.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 07:42 AM) Last night was fun seeing Jimmy destroy some scrubs, but man, this team seems really raw. I'm guessing Jimmy will play 2nd unit too, sitting probably for about 10 minutes for a rose-kirk-dunleavy/dermott - pau/taj - noah/pau lineup. I think maybe Jimmy posting up and Niko staying out wide will help, because he is just not strong enough at all yet. But right now, the brooks-hinrich-mcdermott-nik-taj is atrocious. We may be in for a disappointing "BURN IT ALL" November before the team finds their footing, and likely they'll grind out a bunch of wins with d. Hard to tell in preseason. But for one, Doug needs to get way more selfish on taking his open 3 pointers. He is there for spacing and theres no point to it if he's just gonna pump and drive like every other player on bulls. With as many new players we have (and you might as well count Rose as new), including a couple rookies who we expect to log minutes in our rotation, we should expect some up and downs, especially early in the season. We'll just have to remember that and relax and as the team has time and gels, we should see ourselves emerge.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 08:04 AM) The bolded is 100% true. The frustrating part is that they all HAVE been revisited and rethought, but the mainstream media still cling to every conclusion from Moneyball, clearly having missed the ENTIRE idea of the book, which was NOT "steals are bad, bunts are bad, defense is overrated, homers are king, walks are king," but rather "use sabermetrics to identify over and undervalued skills in the current marketplace/run environment, and acquire/punt skillsets depending on conditions." That those aforementioned concepts happened to be the overvalued and undervalued skills/strategies in 2002 has been the bane of the SABR-friendly fan over the last seven or eight years. Because people like Hawk and Joe Morgan were offended by Michale Lewis' tone as it was filtered through the media and never bothered to read any of it in the first place. Not a criticism against you at all, but the mainstream in general. I fully grasp the above concept and have always understood moneyball with the impression that it wasn't that walks and homers were king, it was really more that walks were being extremely underrated and under valued in relation to their importance to their game and I have never had a problem with sabs it is more that I Think a lot of people severely misuse them and don't have a thorough enough understanding of the limitations of various aspects (but that is another debate and I will also say I guarantee there are some stats that I once went into in depth that have since been revamped and I may not be aware of that). I However, I think a similar approach is still being taken by a lot of people in certain areas and if you look at the difference in runs between the Royals and Sox defense, you are talking about nearly a run per game difference. That is insanely huge, especially in an era where there are few elite hitters. The reality is, when it comes to helping the net run differential, if I'm the Sox, I might be able to make far bigger impacts by cleaning up my defense and pitching staff then I can by acquiring bonafide impact bats (and I say that because there are just so few of them available).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 05:08 PM) Some times I really hate advanced stats, because there is no way those two are in the same stratosphere offensively or defensively. Though those numbers are distorted by going two years instead of one. It can be hard for us to truly say that unless we also watched a good chunk of Sox games. I will say I long thought the board was overly negative on De Aza but obviously everyone here had a pretty good understanding of what he was, etc, where as our images of Markakis are likely more based upon what we saw over multiple seasons with limited grand scheme exposure.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 03:46 PM) You say that as though we haven't seen successful closers throw in the low 90s and survive because of control and having an off speed pitch - specifically a change up. Danks has been fairly effective against righties and lefties in his career and one of his problems right now is a dip in fastball velocity. If he could get that back in the bullpen that could at least allow him to be of some use and clear the rotations slot out. Because he relies so heavily on the change up, he doesn't make a good situational lefty, but if he could get a little velocity boost in short stints...I dunno, it might be worth a shot. I would push this to PTAC but another reason Danks may not be a good fit for the pen is guys with / who have had shoulder problems may have much more difficulty handling the extra games / back to back game use vs. a normally healthy pitcher. I don't know that for a fact, but I've heard it said before by various pitchers during telecasts.