Chisoxfn

Jozy is jogging and stretching with team USA today. Per Dan Wetzel. This is happening right now I think. Doesn't mean he's going to play or not but he's getting closer. Lets hope no set backs.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 07:40 AM) Who is a star now? Jeremy Lin? Come on now, There are a few roleplayers but on the whole these guys are NBDL fodder 1000% with you.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 07:32 AM) There are plenty of UDFA's that turn into stars and lots turn into role players. Who turned into a star?

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 07:18 AM) I think the years of pent up anxiety and disappointment in the Bulls conservative roster management (including a collection of assets that win games, but are never as attractive as other teams assets that lose games) are creating a bizarre love affair for me with Doug McDermott. I don't claim to be a scout. I only watch mizzou college bball and then hate the rest of the sport. But the fact that everyone was terrified the bulls would trade up to get this kid and then we did just that, makes me think that this has to work, right? I mean this is the most aggressive move I've ever seen the Bulls make. We have to hit 100%. We deserve it. And then next year Mcdermott is going to post up Anthony and do some weird ooopsy woopsy layup that goes in and I will go crazy. And then he'll get posterized by Lebron and we'll be talking about the 2018 plan to sign Jabari. McDermott isn't pretty but the dude flat out scores. He has a mini-dirk like presence from the perspective he can score in a mirry of ways and find lots of ways to get shots off (in very awkward positions) and shoot them with a high percentage (and from long range). I'm not saying Doug is Dirk. He is clearly smaller but he has a lot of similar skills as a Dirk from a scoring perspective (back when Dirk was much much younger). In no way am I saying that is who he turns into, but he has some of those skill-sets to potentially be a very good scorer in this league. No idea if he will be able to play good enough D though.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 09:07 PM) Paxson's first draft was 2003. 2003 - Hinrich. No good today, but he was a really nice player for a long time. There wasn't anybody obviously better that went later. Good pick. 2004 - Gordon at 3 and Deng at 7. The only player I could have really criticized them for passing up on by taking Gordon at 3 was Deng, who they got at 7. Duhon in 2nd round was a rare contributor from that part of the draft. Great job here, considering the only great player in the draft went 1 overall. These guys and Hinrich turned the franchise around. 2005 - No first rounder, traded this first rounder for Luol Deng. Brilliant deal as we were picking 21st in 2005. 2006 - The big whiff: Tyrus Thomas. Made worse by the fact that we got essentially nothing in return for moving down two slots because Viktor Khryapa never had any real semblance of value. This is a big, big mistake. Moved from 16 to 13 to grab Thabo Sefolosha, which was a good enough move. Nice player and later spun him off for another mid-first pick. 2007 - Joakim Noah at 9. Arguably the second best player from this draft, more conservatively 3rd (making Al Horford better). Both those players were selected earlier. We got this pick by trading Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis to NY, getting Mike Sweetney, Tim Thomas, Jermaine Jackson, the Thabo Sefolosha pick the year before, and an option to swap picks with NY (we did - moved from 23 to 9). Great deal, great pick. 2008 - Derrick Rose. If you complain about this one, you're just being a dick. The only other players you'd want from this draft are Westbrook, Love, and Brook Lopez. Westbrook would be the most defensible pick there in hindsight, but indefensible at the time and this is not to mention the time it took for Westbrook to remotely compare to Rose. We also took Omer Asik at 36, a pretty excellent 2nd round choice. 2009 - James Johnson at 16 and Taj Gibson at 26. Johnson qualifies as a miss, but the fact that we traded him for a first rounder is noteworthy. Jrue Holliday, Ty Lawson, Jeff Teague and Taj Gibson are the main players to fret about not getting at 16. Gibson is an awesome selection at 26. Not wanting a PG at 16 is rather forgivable as well. 2010 - No picks. Our 17th pick, which was used on a foreigner that hasn't come over, was traded for another foreigner that hasn't come over, and we traded that guy with Kirk Hinrich to Washington. These are the hazards of going for the big name players. With that said, there really isn't a player worth a s*** taken at or after 17. Lance Stephenson in the middle of the second is the next best guy after Paul George at 10. 2011 - Jimmy Butler at 30: great pick. We traded our 28th pick for Nikola Mirotic. Jury's out on him, but the very fact that Chad Ford says he'd be a top 6 pick in today's draft makes that sound like a pretty good deal and a wash at worst. 2012 - Marquis Teague at 29. I won't call it a "whiff" given the expectations for a 29th pick, but no positive points here. Best players we missed (that we know of so far) are Draymond Green at 35 and Khris Middleton at 44. 2013 - Tony Snell at 20. I don't want to make too many proclamations about this given how little sample we have for him or anyone else, but I don't yet feel too bad about anyone else that got by. To Tony's credit, he has at least not yet ruled out the possibility of him becoming a decent rotation player. He could go either way IMO. It's a pretty good run IMO. Given the overall success rate of first round draft picks, we've done pretty damn well. One big miss, but several big hits and we didn't f*** up our biggest opportunity when we picked first overall. You can say what you want about it being obvious in 2008, but if you let 30 teams draft there you wouldn't have had 30 Derrick Roses. Countless examples of #1 overall picks being pretty much s***ty ballplayers or paling in comparison to players taken later. Excellent analysis Jake.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 08:43 PM) Ive watched every NBA draft for the last 20 years, everyone has misses, which is exactly why when you have 2 first round picks in a deep draft, you take them both so that you have a better chance of hitting. Maybe McDermott is the best thing ever, yesterday before the Bulls selected him I said that he could do well on the right team. I think that overall its a waste of picks, I think McDermott wasnt worth the price and I think the Bulls would have been better suited taking 2 players. But that is always my belief. I dont like trading up unless its for a guy that just blows you away. McDermott doesnt blow me a way. Its not that I hate him as a player, I just hate the cost of getting him. I agree with everything you just said.

No issue with that pick. Probably never plays but who knows.

FYI - McDermott excelled last year practicing with Team USA. Tons of people raved about him (also Hayward). Below are some stats from this past college basketball season (points per possession): Catch and Shoot: 1.312 PPP Off Screens: 1.444 PPP Off the dribble: 1.154 PPP Ranked 1st in all three categories. No idea if Thibs can teach him defense.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 08:22 PM) Ill be the one to say it, but the Bulls have not been exceptional. The last 2 drafts they got Snell and Teague respectively. Sure they got Butler, but that was already back in 2011. In 2010 they got James Johnson and Taj Gibson (50% hit rate) and Im pretty sure if you pull up the draft thread youll see me saying things about Gibson being a steal. I wont even talk about the abortions before Noah. You guys have way more faith in a franchise that has been to the EC Finals 1 time since 1998. Color me skeptical. (edit) Sure if the Bulls get Melo this all changes, but I remember when the Bulls were getting T-Mac, Kobe and every other FA since 1998. You do realize every team will have misses? Bulls have consistently hit at a much higher percentage then the rest of the league. It isn't even close. Butler / Taj / Asik / Nik / Sefolosha / Deng / Gordon / Hinrich / Rose / Noah / etc Note: Tyrus Thomas was the one massive debacle and really the only debacle under this admin. Jay Williams I won't blame anyone on since he would have been very good but I also don't remember if that was Paxson or not (think it was). Also, I am not writing Snell off yet.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 08:18 PM) If that's the going rate, I'd take him on the Bulls. Seriously. I would to, however, he also has to be interested in signing with the Bulls, which I presume he wouldn't be (why would he want to play 2nd fiddle to Rose?). How about the Knicks just sending us Melo in a S&T now.

I'm going to make a Jordan type comment but all of you better be eating a shoe when the Bulls land Melo this offseason. Get ready…it is happening. PS: This is not the return, proposed by Steve either.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 08:12 PM) On a side note, I'm really excited to see what we get from Mirotic Still a lot of scenarios out there with him not coming back. An interesting thing is there are some reports this week that Nik makes a hell of a lot less in the Euro league then anyone thinks. He also had a falling out recently and hasn't been playing many minutes (or all that good).

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 08:09 PM) They took Anthony Randolph back in that deal so they didn't save money and they could have taken two USA players. Presume they think it will be easy to dump Randolph. Foresight people…foresight. That or someone, maybe the Knicks, want this Randolph fellow.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 08:06 PM) Twitter said it didn't save any money. 350K I believe. Again, not a lot but still something. This is presuming Randolph doesn't stick around.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 07:58 PM) Norris Cole and late first rounders at best for Lowry? That's an awful deal What leverage does Toronto have? Lowry is a FA. This is a S&T, not a normal trade. Edit: Sorry, i looked like an ass with my initial response.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 07:44 PM) Why in the world would Toronto do that just on the hope of getting an inferior player in Bosh back Probably cause Lowry has told him he isn't coming back so they have no choice but to facilitate for a pick or two or just let him go somewhere else anyway.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 07:28 PM) I'm guessing Anthony is just a nice expiring piece for a s&t. He's not an indication that melo isn't coming. Melo's&t reputation for being about he money is the sign that melo isn't coming. Ditto. Find it laughable that people think McDermott means we aren't all in for Melo. Team is clearly all in for Melo.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 07:12 PM) I'm not a huge fan of Shabazz, honestly. Seems like the typical undersized guard that goes off in college and is forgotten as a pro Seems like a really low risk pick. Vet point guards get slept on and he could very well turn into a solid role playing pg.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 07:03 PM) I was ready to bash anyone who drafted McGary but have to say he's pretty perfect for OKC. Local dealers are pretty happy too since he's stuck there. Is he really into drugs or something?

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 07:01 PM) At this point I'd rather Bulls get some one they targeted than keep collecting assets they won't use. High basketball IQ, great shooter, give him to Thibs. I don't give a s*** about backup point guards. Check out how many effing pgs were just drafted. It's the easiest position to fill. Not to mention the team is going to bring back one of Hinrich / Augustin.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 06:56 PM) I dont hate McDermott, I hate trading up for him. I hope he becomes the best player in the NBA. I just cant defend what the Bulls did there. (edit) Ive seen McDermott maybe 20-30 times, Im just not sure how much posting up hell do at the 4. Sure at the 3 he might outsize people, but then you have him guarding quicker guys on defense. I just think Hood/Young were better fits and that gave you the bonus of taking a PG at 19 and having more insurance. McDermott was rated well above a lot of those guys on draft boards. A lot of people had him going top 10. Again draft boards are what they are anyway but it isn't like we took traded up and took a 2nd rounder, we traded up to take a guy no one had falling to us at 16 who the Bulls clearly are pretty high on.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 06:55 PM) Nobody traded 2 first rounders for Harris. If McDermott was our 16th pick, Id be perfectly content. We gave up a valuable piece for a guy that is no sure thing. It really is odd. We weren't taking 2 US picks. We were either taking one guy and then stashing a Euro player or trading the pick anyway. Bulls are really high on McDermot and I still don't even know if he stays in Chicago or not. All I know is he was a great scorer / shooter in college so could be a nice 4th or 5th starter (good scorer off the bench). Maybe he turns into more but the options were always having the Bulls get 1 guy who would end up being on a roster this year. I don't like the idea of trading in these situations either and would have rather just made who the Bulls thought were best at the two spots too but I do have faith in the Bulls scouting.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 06:38 PM) Since I don't follow college ball, God I hope you're right. Despite all the b****ing on this board, this front office has proven the fact that it has historically been exceptional at drafting.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 03:41 PM) I can already see Paxson and Gar keeping flexibility for 2019 plan. What does it matter, you can be great now (w/Melo) and then still get flexible then when it makes sense. Jabari isn't going to be a star in year 1, so worse case you wait another 4 years and sign him then with the lure of bringing him home. It isn't like he's going to get drafted by the Lakers or some major market team that will end up keeping him. If he's truly transcendental or something, Bulls could easily sign him as a FA (or he can force a trade eventually to Chicago with threat of not resigning). Technically, had the Lakers not gave Kobe so much money, they too could have 2 max offers and they already could make a max offer to either of them. They are just a hot mess right now that no one wants to sign with, which is very strange, but they could easily position themselves and are one of the few places, that could relatively easily make room for Melo & James. Worry about collecting assets and making sure you are always in a position that you are competitive and thus attractive to those stars and then obviously don't be shy when the opportunities arise.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 03:20 PM) He's not the only player in the draft worth taking... If Jabari ends up being so great, we just sign him away from the Bucks / Cavs when he becomes a FA.