Chisoxfn

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 23, 2014 -> 11:12 AM) In a sign and trade, you can offer the full max to a player. I don't think he is technically signing now. I believe teams have to wait until the off-season to sign him, although I might be wrong. Maybe he is still eligible to be signed to an extension now as part of the trade.

I like the offer. That is an extremely strong offer, while still ensuring the Bulls have enough depth to win now all while getting a 25 year old top 10 player in this league. We'd still have 3 strong bigs and our wing rotation wouldn't suffer, presuming we are getting Martin in the deal as well (Martin / Butler / Snell / Dunleavy). Pau backs up the 4 and 5 and has plenty of minutes and we try to bring in someone like Marion who can also back-up at the 4 / 5, maybe bring back Nazr as well.

QUOTE (Cubano @ Jul 23, 2014 -> 10:10 AM) Oh, this hurts. Just kidding! When the Soviet aid stopped flowing to Cuba, the disassembled all the tanks and old MiG-17 and 21. I always thought, is this how we are going to fight the imperialist Yankees? By the time we start putting these weapons back together, we will be annihilated. I always thought I would run like the Italian army in WWII or the Iraqis. in the first Gulf War. I would have taken refuge in the countryside because I am not Hero. As for Rusney, he should be good for MLB. I really like him. Good speed and some pop. Good teammate too. Rusney seems like he's going to be a good pick-up for a team. Not overly hyped. Kind of has the feeling of Alexei and some of the other cubans that didn't get as much hype but might end up turning into a pretty darn good player. Some nice tools and while he won't be a star, there is nothing wrong with a guy that could be a super utility guy who might just surprise you and end up being able to start.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 06:05 PM) I get your point that his value is super low but Barney has no upside with his bat whatsoever. Beckham has an appeal that will continue to be argued into his 30s, probably to the detriment of many GMs and fan bases. I don't see it. Guy has been a bum most of his career. I think Sox fans seem to think this but he's been a lousy hitter for a while and has real poor hitting mechanics. Had it not been for his initial season of production, he'd have been dropped a while ago. He does play very good defense, although it doesn't seem to come across in some of the defensive metrics, so you probably don't even get a ton of value for that in the trade market. Bottom line, we aren't going to get anything but a bag of baseballs for Gordon and I'm okay with that. The team needs to move on and Gordon needs to. He'll probably end up being more productive somewhere else but he will never amount to anything with the White Sox.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 05:12 PM) There's no logical reason for either the Cardinals or the Tigers to receive competitive balance picks. The Tigers don't. Cardinals do and it doesn't make sense.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 05:16 PM) Why do people think Wilkins is a prospect? He's been thoroughly mediocre every step of his minor league career. I have no idea. I realize he's on a terror right now and maybe a switch has flipped but it isn't like we are talking about some guy who has destroyed minor league pitching his entire career. His career OPS in the minors isn't anything outstanding (low .800's) all while demonstrating a significant decline in his walk rate each season. I certainly wouldn't want the Sox to sit around a year letting him prove whether he can hang or not. I have no problem giving him a shot for a few weeks late in the season (cause Dunn should be gone), however, he did have enough initial tools to be a 5th round pick. I'm just extremely skeptical of 1st base prospects as a whole, especially ones who don't absolutely rake. I hope he keeps doing what he's been doing the past month.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 04:34 PM) Bad example for this year, but they used to be eligible somehow. Point remains the same. Replace Tigers with Cardinals. Cardinals are included and have been one of the most successful franchises in baseball the past 10 years. That said, given how much the draft is a crap shoot, I don't really think that the chance of one extra pick really equates to all that much in the grand scheme of tilting the balance.

QUOTE (zenryan @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 04:28 PM) I was suppose to go on a Vegas and then camping trip for a week with friends this month. Then that fell apart because of life and other commitments. Then we were going to have a long weekend in either Toronto or DC in late August which just happened to fall on my birthday. I was pushing for Toronto, another was pushing DC b/c he just had a baby and his wife's family is from the area. He was going to go a week earlier to see them. Of course the other friends caved and said DC would be easier. Boring. Then slowly, and thankfully, the others had no interest and those plans fell through. Now I find out today I'll be spending that very weekend with my parents in Atlanta helping my sister move with her boyfriend from Boca. Of course the Braves arent in town so there goes the idea of hitting up a game that Friday night. So I'm basically asking does anyone have a good, nice, local type place to recommend for a Friday dinner? Something casual and relaxed because Thursday and Friday afternoon will be spent driving 9 hours and moving them in. Being in Orlando, I'm in the chain restaurant capital of the southeast so hopefully looking for something different. thanks In Atlanta, right? What type of food and roughly what area in Atlanta are you all in? My best friend lives there and I can ask him. You can also probably PM dasox24, who lives in Atlanta.

Barney just got cut by Cubs. While Beckham is better and has a little more pop in his bat, neither can hit well and both play above average defense. Beckham does have the better pedigree as well, but I really think anyone thinking we'll get anything all that interesting for Becks is delusional but I hope I'm wrong.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 04:09 PM) it is entirely believable that there will be places where the Sox will get their best offers for guys at the trade deadline this year when they can contribute to the pennant race this year. Furthermore, for guys like Beckham, De Aza, and Dunn, who will not be here next year, they should be moved just so that there can be some return for them and to get playing time for random people lower on the list than them. Barney just got cut. I really think anyone thinking we'll get anything all that interesting for Becks is delusional but I hope I'm wrong.

QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 02:57 PM) But what are you going to commit that money combined with the other 30-45M coming off the books going into the offseason? top tier FA pitching is a horrible idea when you consider that Shields, Lester and Scherzer will all be 30 or older and especially when the sox have a legit #1 and 1A in the rotation with Rodon near major league ready. The best looking free agents that fit our needs are as follows: Russell Martin 32 next season - who doesn't fit our development timeline age wise Victor Martinez 36 next season - doesn't really fit our window timeline and would seemingly cost the sox their first round pick and a minimum three year commitment Billy Butler 29 next season - Maybe, but everyone is going to look at him as a buy low candidate(provided the royals don't pick up his option) which will inflate his price a bit and is right handed. Colby Rasmus 28 - left handed fits nearly everyone of our needs and is having a down year, so its possible we can get him for a reasonable price So what is the point of having even more money if they're already flush with cash and the international FAs won't command nearly as much as Abreu or Tanaka? You can invest it in other young players or use it to acquire guys with existing contracts in trade, etc. It doesn't have to be through major FA signings. Bottom line it gives you flexibility.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) Dang, so for as bad as Gasol is defensively, he averaged 1.5 blocks/gm last year in limited minutes, Boozer had .3. That's the benefit of the added height even if defensively he's lost a step. Gasol also scored 60% of his points or so unassisted vs. Boozer who was below 30%.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 01:13 PM) If we gut the core to get Love, the team won't be any good. Rose-Love-Noah-Gasol does not a good team make If you are going to trade guys, you have to trade Gibson and Mirotic and just one wing. You can't gut your wings because if you trade all of them, you have no wings and improved an area on your roster that was a strength to begin with.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 11:09 AM) The one positive (cuz hey, let's whip ourselves into a frenzy one more time this off season) is that Flip wants to win now and Wiggins isn't going to do that for him. Taj and Butler and some draft picks let's him sorta do that and plan for the future. Still not sure that's getting them to the playoffs though. I find it hard to believe they'd part with McDermott or Mirotic so soon. Taj and Butler and Dunleavy and picks are the only possibilities I would think. Have they signed Dougie McD to a contract yet? I don't know if Mirotic can be traded so soon, could be wrong. I don't know that I would trade Taj, Butler, McDermott, and Mirotic. That would be a pretty steap price and would leave us with very little depth. And I would think you'd at the very least have to include Taj / Butler and one of Mirotic / McDermott.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 10:58 AM) Trade Sale, trade Q, trade Abreu. Headley was a one year wonder apparently. But constantly trading good players just because you aren't going to win in a year or two usually means you will remain non-competitive for a lot longer than that. I agree; I think you trade good players when they don't fit into your long-term rebuilding plans, not just because they had a good year. You look at your scouting and think, is this a fluke, etc, and can we get peak value now, and what is the horizon of cotending and where will he fit, how will he fit financially, and do they have contracts and seem willing to come back and be around during that horizon. Good franchises I think are smart and know when to trade and who to trade, but also know who to lock up, etc.

I'd trade Taj, Butler and picks in a heart beat, but I am going to assume they'd want a lot more then that. Unless Love tells them, I'm not interested in the other destinations.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 07:11 AM) Kirk is not THAT bad a 3 point shooter. I don't think it's too crazy to think that he could get back to the 39% he shot just 2 years ago. That % was good for 66th in the league. Especially when he is getting good looks with the spacing that should be created. He's going to be put in a position to be more efficient on offense and we all know he's still a real good defender.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 22, 2014 -> 06:55 AM) I have no problem with this. Genuinely don't. If Hinrich is out there with Rose it's for his defense and it's either giving Jimmy Butler some extra rest or its creating a lineup that combines extra outside shooting with solid perimeter D. In short bursts that could very well be an effective lineup for the Bulls. Completely agree. It also allows Rose to play off the ball and not have as much pressure on him as the primary ball handler. There are a lot of reasons it can be a good idea to have Rose / Hinrich on the court together. What we don't want is Hinrich starting because Rose is out for an extended period of time.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 21, 2014 -> 05:58 PM) Didn't read the Boras article, but I'm assuming he meant that all 29 other MLB teams would bid a minimum of $6.5 million (sort of like a signing bonus, but not quite) for the rights to Aiken. So then you would still be left with the problem of sorting out who gets him. In the end, this kind of an arrangement would massively favor the large market teams unless there were hard caps on total dollars, because the Yankees would just game the system and take the majority of talent and the era of semi-parity would be over, to the agents' favor. I thought Boras, that the most you could bid was the cap amount (or what the agreed upon bid was). You couldn't ever go past that, so you were tied to the slotting system. This just meant if a team wasn't willing to pay slot because of an injury risk, the player could go out and find another team who would pay that value. The team that didn't want to pay is restored by getting their draft pick and the player, who was going to be forced to take less money or re-enter the process, was made whole by going to another organization who paid. In terms of southsiders post, he was referring to the fact that under the Boras scenario, the maximum bid, was $6.5M (which I believe was the agreed upon offer prior to the physical) and thus since the player couldn't reach an agreement after the physical, they would become a free agent and no team could offer more then 6.5M (but could offer less). However, in this case, southsider is assuming, every team in baseball would offer the maximum, which then poses the question, do you leave it up to the player to then pick the team or is there another process to determine when similar teams have same bid?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 21, 2014 -> 01:40 PM) There is a tangible thing in baseball too, and it's called murdering right handed pitching. Dunn does it. He's a useful player, it's just a very specific and limited use. You put him in Seattle's lineup at DH against RHP and it becomes quite a bit more formidable. LOL.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 21, 2014 -> 02:07 PM) I'd much rather have made a push with the BAE after Shawn Marion than kirk Hinrich. Now if we land Marion on vet min (as KC Johnson rumored, but I find to be a longshot), I'll retract any criticism. I'd just much rather have defensive help to wings than backup PG, where that added D provides less value as far as I'm concerned. I think there is a chance if Snell has not developed that Jimmy will be stay on the court for the second unit like we often saw from Deng because Hinrich-Snell-McDermott-Mirotic-Taj may be good on D, but we don't know. Especially when we need D, I'd feel more comfortable with Rose-Butler-Marion-Gibson-Noah than Rose-Hinrich-Butler-Gibson-Noah. And I'd still rather have Ramon Sessions. Rose-Sessions-Brooks just makes me more comfortable with offense when Rose goes down than Rose-Hinrich-Brooks. Maybe he signs for the min, but that requires convincing. You aren't going to get Sessions and Brooks to both come here for that cheap. One or the other but not both. Brooks came because he knows that with a healthy Rose, he'll still get minutes cause Hinrich will play a bit at the 2 as well.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 21, 2014 -> 02:07 PM) I'd much rather have made a push with the BAE after Shawn Marion than kirk Hinrich. Now if we land Marion on vet min (as KC Johnson rumored, but I find to be a longshot), I'll retract any criticism. I'd just much rather have defensive help to wings than backup PG, where that added D provides less value as far as I'm concerned. I think there is a chance if Snell has not developed that Jimmy will be stay on the court for the second unit like we often saw from Deng because Hinrich-Snell-McDermott-Mirotic-Taj may be good on D, but we don't know. Especially when we need D, I'd feel more comfortable with Rose-Butler-Marion-Gibson-Noah than Rose-Hinrich-Butler-Gibson-Noah. And I'd still rather have Ramon Sessions. Rose-Sessions-Brooks just makes me more comfortable with offense when Rose goes down than Rose-Hinrich-Brooks. Maybe he signs for the min, but that requires convincing. Is Marion supposedly coming here? I know they kicked tires but presume he wasn't coming for the vet min. I'd like that move, however, when this team didn't have a single point guard outside of Rose, using the BAE on something other then a PG (such as Marion as you imply above) made zero sense.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 21, 2014 -> 12:35 PM) Another way to think about it is: if you think both were worth the room exception (what was used on Hinrich), which of the two would have been easier to replace at the minimum? I don't see Aaron Brooks being appreciably worse than DJ Augustin. With that said, part of having a coach who is supposed to be excellent is buying in when he says that [x player] needs to be on the team for a couple million per year Great post. I think Aaron Brooks might be better then DJ. Might be slightly worse. Bottom line, I'm happy if we got Brooks.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 21, 2014 -> 12:22 PM) Hinrich fits what the Bulls need. They don't need a guy who can win you games. They need a guy who won't hurt you while Derrick Rose isn't on the floor. A defender first player is the perfect thing to have behind Rose, especially as you are building a bench with shooters that can take care of the offense. A guy that is going to win you games is not there at 2.7M per year. Hinrich is one piece to the part and with a healthy Rose will be a pretty efficient and effective role player.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 21, 2014 -> 12:18 PM) No, I'm not acting like that at all. I'm questioning the allocation of resources to a s*** backup PG for the BAE when more interesting moves were available, or players with different skill sets (offense) were available. Other bulls fans, who liked the offseason, need to convince themselves that because they like Doug and Nikola, that Kirk must also have been a good addition because they like to feel good and not think of anything bad. But Kirk sucks, we know he sucks because we've watched him suck, and this season when he dribbles in circles for 20 minutes and can't get the ball to our incredible second line of shooters, we will hear about how Kirk sucks on this very board that is so happy we used our last bit of attractive flexibility on Kirk Hinrich. It isn't like the Bulls were the only team to offer Kirk. He took less money to play with Chicago. Kirk has played everywhere he has gone and yes, there are actually some statistics, which factor in defense, that rate him pretty well. If you want to complain cause he can't handle a starting gig, go ahead, because he can't, but that isn't what he is here for. Aaron Brooks and Hinrich is better then Aaron Brooks and DJ in our back court.