GreenSox

Not one bench player used all night. The Sox should have an alchemy night at he ball park next year.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 14, 2016 -> 01:46 PM) 1.) Quintana 2.) Rodon 3.) Rodriguez 4.) Gonzalez 5.) Shields Rodon is not a #2 (a 3 or a 4), Gonzalez is a #5 and Shields shouldn't be anywhere near a major league rotation (and with a FO that was merely competent and lived in the real world, he wouldn't haven't been within 1500 miles of the White Sox rotation). QUOTE (b-Rye @ Sep 14, 2016 -> 08:57 PM) No reason to rebuild unless they do another half as build around the core. They need more power, speed, and serious depth. All the minor injuries opened many black holes And they're still only 4 games under. Hell just James shields/Matt albers have officially lost 16 games, given up 116 runs in 136 ip combined. True, but this FO actually traded for James Shields, despite clear evidence that he had nothing left. They created their own demise. Hahn's eye for talent (especially veteran talent) is laughably bad, but at least he has a scout at his side who's pretty good at evaluating young players. Thus I support some sort of rebuild.

Well, another blowout game-this one against us. Let's see if Ventura and Hahn can exit fantasy land for a moment and play a call-up.

Lawrie's numbers aren't even that noticeably better- and Saladino has yet to have a full season starting and improved a lot in his second semi-season. I'd like to see Leury get work in September. He could really be the super sub ( OF and IF) if he could hit a little, which he finally did this season in AAA. Pitching is thinner out in Sep so numbers are inflated (just as they are for Sox starters who can suddenly hit) but it will give the team an idea.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 07:57 PM) Teams don't usually sit their starting players. In September, they certainly do. Ventura refuses to let them bat. Heck, he couldn't get these guys an at bat in a blowout game like tonight. Hahn and Ventura operate in a different dimension dissociated with reality. People actually asking whether Ventura has save his job is highly suggestive that, indeed, this is about inflating win totals in garbage time. the question about saving his job should also be asked about Hahn.

Will Cooper be back? They aren't really making a serious effort if Hahn's folly, Shields, is part of the rotation.

I just don't understand the philosophy of Ventura and Hahn to not empty the bench for these September games. They continue to play starters heavily in meaningless games. Eaton plays CF for whatever reason and the young guys sit. It's time for development. I can see Ventura being desperate and trying to inflate his win total. But Hahn, is either similarly desperate or too weak-kneed to do anything about it.

QUOTE (Scoots @ Sep 11, 2016 -> 01:49 PM) Yeah but you really don't need more than one "stud" hitter. Look at the 05 team. Konerko was the stud hitter on that team, Jermaine Dye would be next but idk if he is "stud" worthy. Who would be next? Crede? Iguchi? AJ? They weren't stud hitters either when they were in their prime. Thing is, need Abreu to be Konerko-esque in terms of hitting ALL YEAR, not just in August, September. Dye was studly that year. Also had above average hitting at a number of spots. Also team hit a ton of homers. No stiffs in the outfield trying to play D. Super starting and relief pitching. We had a lot of career pitching years come together.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 10, 2016 -> 08:49 PM) Why is Ventura managing all of a sudden like it's the 7th game in the World Series? Good question. Someone needs to remind him that this is September garbo time - a whole bench who should get at bats and experience. Hahn is either too weak-kneed to do anything about it....or he shares Ventura's desperation to reach .500 (because .500 certainly isn't a goal that affects the org. one way or the other). As for comments re Saladino, no over-reaction. He's not great - he's just as good as Lawrie, with less experience and more room to grow. That's not a high bar - Lawrie has never been much.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Sep 10, 2016 -> 09:49 AM) Infield arguably set: 3B: Frazier- Set in stone SS: Anderson- Set in stone 2B: Saladino- Gamer, start him 1B: Abreu- Set in stone C: Narvaez- Earning it, walk rate incredible, see how year finishes BN: Leury- Owned AAA this year, gives good speed and defense, has a little pop BN: Lawrie- Plus plus bench piece BN: Avila- Or someone similar, but I like the option for clutch LH ABs since he can walk Outfield is where the work has to be done: LF: Major Acquisition- Cespedes @ 30M CF: Defense first guy- Maybe Tilson until Engel is ready RF: Eaton set in stone BN: May- Is his D great? BN: Avi for FO pride DH: Melky, who can spell OF corners I think if the FO focuses on a major, punishing OF bat the Sox will be competitive. Not as worried about C and CF since it's too hard to find Trouts n Poseys. Still a lot of holes Can start with Frazier "set in stone". He's okay, nothing more. No real stud hitters except a good Abreu.

117 pitches in garbo time. Fantasy land. As a founding member of the Saladino fan club, he's turning into a solid player and is a better player than Lawrie, who should be moved this offseason

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Sep 8, 2016 -> 06:33 PM) Alexei was a 4 fWAR player in his prime. Give the guy some more credit. He was a damn fine ballplayer. He was a very good player for 4 seasons or so. But right now, I think TA is playing as well as AR ever did. I think he can get better and, hopefully, sustain it. I've said before, to the lament of some, I would be disappointed if he's not better than Alexei. I'm not and doubt I will be. Now part of that, admittedly, is that when you draft raw high school players, you will have a high washout rate- unavoidable. So when one develops, I want them to develop big.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 8, 2016 -> 03:31 PM) That's a very optimistic claim but we'll see. He can hit for a higher average than Alexei, walk at a similarly low rate, hit for maybe a little less power, but defensively, Alexei will probably edge Anderson. Hope I'm proved wrong Alexei had 5 seasons with OPS >.700 and exactly 1 > .750. Besting Alexei isn't the highest of bars, and I have little doubt that he will shortly be better than Alexei ever was, if he isn't already.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 05:38 PM) doubtful...as the "all in" approach will continue next year also. Plus...you won't get the return you'd need for either guy. If the FO develops some finesse, skill and savvy, they could trade both of those guys (and some others) and strengthen the club for next year and the future. Neither is exactly a necessity for a winning team. But, they usually do he obvious and clunky.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 8, 2016 -> 05:19 PM) That tandem would consist of two left handed hitters. Is that a good idea? Whom might the Sox use for a right handed hitter? I don't see the big deal. Sox always seem on the lookout for left handed bats anyway. both are competent catchers...that's a leg up on where we have been and won't preclude this team actually winning (if the rest of the club is up to spiff).

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Sep 8, 2016 -> 01:31 PM) Tim Anderson is 10th among shortstops with 7 Defensive Runs Saved and he's 12th in UZR. https://t.co/BEx5q8oYb1 https://twitter.com/CSNHayes/status/773909710701404161 http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-white-so...ive-improvement There were reports during his last year in the minors that his D was rapidly improving. Glad to see it has continued in the majors.

Narvaez plus a health Avila would be fine, going for it or not. It's the healthy Avila that is the big if.

Well, I wouldn't do a winter rebuild anyway and prices are better in July. So sign a CF and a relief pitcher; re-sign Avila and pray he stays healthy. Find an arm for the bullpen. Maybe re-sign Morneau. Absolutely no trades of young players for veterans - that kind of silly stuff from Williams and Hahn has kept the Sox on the 75-80 win treadmill; if you can find a trade for a young player, take it. Take it easy on the staff (113 pitches for Q?) and on Jones and Robertson in September. See what Beck, Ynoa and Kahnle have...all have had moments but no consistency. And if we suck in July 2017, don't take a nap this time, but sell.

Well they shouldn't "buy". Hahn has proven incapable of building a team through that approach. It's a near impossible task anyway, with such a slim young core. And whatever he does how about some finesse and real negotiation instead of falling in the trap of paying top dollar for the most heavily pushed trade baits in MLB...and Hahn fell for both of them the last 2 years (Frazier and Samardzija). Whether they should totally rebuild is another question. If they wanted to do that, they should have started in July when prices were high, But Hahn and Williams decided to take a nap and sit out the July deadline, preferring life in dreamland that the Sox were still in it.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 03:49 PM) The Los Angeles Dodgers can also throw many around like no other team. While we all fret about the $20 million the Sox have to pay Shields the next 2 years, they can piss that away and no one thinks twice. It may be the dumbest comparison ever. Take away Kershaws $30 million and they still have a significantly higher payroll than the White Sox. And that payroll is not the main reason they withstand injuries. They have organizational depth. Heck, it was they who passed on Frazier,preferring Sox prospects. Petricka and Putnam are average at best relievers; Lawrie is avg or below at 2b; same with Avilia and Jackson. The Sox didn't exactly lose high talent.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 03:26 PM) Really, you think the Sox should and could be be like the Dodgers? That may be the craziest thought ever. Good point. Well this FO, indeed it is crazy to think there could be the least bit of farm depth or decent talent sitting in AAA.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 03:14 PM) Dodgers. Preaching to the choir. But that will be a heavy, heavy excuse used by the FO.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 02:58 PM) This is embarrassing Injuries.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 3, 2016 -> 11:02 PM) But isn't that another reason for signing mid tier talent like Fister or Volquez to short term deals? I mean it's not going to break the bank and if they produce you can dump them at the deadline for young talent if you are out of the race. It's not like signing them will cost a draft pick either. If they don't produce then you aren't stuck long term with a bad contract. Not sure why anyone would have a problem with those types of signings. They didn't sign Frazier - they traded 3 young players for Frazier. That's the problem. And for what end? They aren't contending, so why dump the young guys? Volquez, fine. I actually think Hahn might be able to build a team if he would acquire young players. The few snippets of him using that approach have been reasonably successful. But the model of building through vets that other teams want to trade, plus modest FAs has a very little chance of working even if well-executed. And Hahn's execution of what is a bad plan has been poor. Heck look at the Tigers...they get their best pitcher (and AL ERA leader) via a July trade of a veteran. Hahn has basically sat-out the July trading period, which heavily favors sellers. How do you not get rid of Robertson and Melky? It's mind-boggling.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 3, 2016 -> 04:11 PM) No one is happy with how the team is playing this year but there is no denying the fantastic front end of the rotation that has developed which has an ability to become even deeper if Fulmer reaches his potential. There is nothing wrong with signing a veteran on a short term deal for additional depth and to support the back end of the rotation. Heck even everyone's favorite team around here the Cubs signed 33 year old Jason Hammel to a 2 year deal to do exactly what I'm describing. There's nothing wrong with signing the veteran IF you have the strong young core. But that's the problem...the Sox have a very thin core. The Sox core is 4 or 5 players with no depth. The Cubs had twice that, with depth. The Cubs traded their veterans to build their team. Look no further than how the teams approached Samardzija: the Cubs get their franchise shortstop, and then Rick Hahn, off of 73 wins, adds 1 year of Samardziaj for 4 young players. That trade alone showed the difference between a quality front office and a front office that doesn't know how to build a team. The have added veterans 2 years in a row to "go for it", and not only didn't make the playoffs, haven't come close to .500. Enough is enough.