GreenSox

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 06:06 PM) No kidding! Trade the farm for a young pitcher and still field a team that cannot provide run support all the while complain about the farm being a barren waste land. I don't get it... That's why I talk about hero worship. That's all this is. Just get a bunch of "stars", team be damned. This and Freeman (does anyone look at numbers?) just take the cake.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 04:23 AM) Also, it's worth mentioning that the rest of the baseball world feels that Dombrowski overpaid badly on that trade. He did. It was the "perfect storm" and unlikely to be replicated. 1)Dombrowski as a GM overpays*; 2)Boston had the farm to support overpaying; and most of all 3)Dombrowski's achilles heel in Detroit was that bullpen. There was no way he was going to let it happen in Boston. KW was like that too. Overpaid. It was okay when the Sox had a top farm, like we did c. 2000-2005. But he started getting squeezed as the farm deteriorated. I used to be all for trading bullpen pitchers. But their value is skyrocketing. The modern pen requires 3 lockdown guys (Sox have one lockdown guy). Maybe that their value is skyrocketing is another reason to trade them - I don't know.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 05:38 PM) Major blockbuster proposal: SP Chris Sale, CF Adam Eaton, and SS Tim Anderson for SS Xander Bogaerts, CF Mookie Betts, C Blake Swihart, 3B Rafael Devers, and SP Eduardo Rodriguez Who says no? Well, this is a cool trade. Honestly, I don't think it's quite enough for the Sox. If you leave Anderson off, I'm there or maybe one of the Johnsons instead of Anderson. Bosox wouldn't do it because it messes up their current team and they plan on contending.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 12:07 PM) i don't if it is me, but the sox does not come out too great. What you don't want to trade Fulmer for Cargo and his 2.1 WAR, bad defense, 2 years of control and 17.5M annual salary?

Any good player that may be traded, we gotta get. How about fixing holes at C, 3b, SS, LF, RF, DH and in the pen and in the farm first? Does Fernandez make this a playoff team? He's a 10 game improvement pitcher? Good gracious.

I'm not so anxious to dump Montas. Our mediocre bullpen sure could use him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 16, 2015 -> 08:46 AM) The aces available this year are going to cost somewhere between $150 and $200 million more than Chris Sale over the life of their contracts. That's true. But they're available. Equivalent level hitters are not. Stanton almost was, but he wasn't.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 15, 2015 -> 07:59 PM) Acquiring Freeman would push Abreu to DH. I'd love to get Freeman. I'd offer LaRoche, Montas, Danish, and Hawkins. If we were solid at C, 3B, LF, RF, SS, pen and farm, it would be a nice cherry on top move. But we aren't.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 16, 2015 -> 04:46 PM) My comments were based on him being moved to DH. I agree he's brutal in LF. I agree with you there. That's the best thing. But that requires a)Moving Laroche out and b)finding someone to play backup 1B. Just shifting Thompson to CF and Eaton to LF will help the D a ton, imo.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 16, 2015 -> 04:30 PM) Melky is tradeable, you just wouldn't get anything of real value for him. And he wasn't awful offensively. He wasn't even average offensively. He was slightly above average in a very down year. Look, I am no Melky apologist, but he's a got a pretty good bat. We need to be adding good bats, not subtracting from the few that we have. He was slightly below average, with a 97 OPS+. how down a year was it? He was worse in 2013. (for all the grief Avi gets for his first full season, he was only .25 behind Melky). His career average is .748 OPS, 102 OPS+ which is basically average. He's 30. Add his atrocious D to the equation, and he's a below average LF. And then there's the Sox outfield defense. It's horrible. How can Sox ignore that with a)strength of the team is in pitching and the Sox won't put the D out there to support it and b)watching the Royals and Astros this year, who play impeccable OF defense. And watching the Giants the last several years. Sox aren't winning squat with that OF. That said, Shuck and Thompson are good defenders. Will they hit enough? Who knows. But, frankly Avi and Melky aren't hitting enough themselves. Now they could do things to help like late defensive replacements every night, but that would require Robin to actually do those things.

But they ought to hang on to Freeman. Astros and Cubs didn't cut much of their good young talent. Just the old and the lousy young. Cubs kept Rizzo and Astros kept Altuve. The good young player either dispatched that I can recall was Pence. Both were helped with early picks; but the Cubs invested a ton internationally and the Astros struck gold with a lot of later picks. I just checked out Bethancourt. He has Leury offensive numbers.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 16, 2015 -> 02:58 PM) Melky is signed for 2 more years at $29M. If he were a FA, he would get well in excess of that. Melky is a pretty good hitter, the Sox just need to get him out of the OF everyday. If that's true, then he's tradeable. But I don't think it is. Melky was pretty awful in all aspects last season, including offense. I do agree we need to get him out of the outfield. I think Robertson is tradeable (I was talking about Melky and Laroche in my post above). But early bird gets the worm. SD made out like bandits from a team willing to pay a premium. Robertson isn't quite at that level but he's right below. We've see 2 trades and 2 premium prospect returns. If Hahn has to get a bunch of approvals to make a move, Sox lose their chance. Hahn di$$ed around in July and it cost us. Shark needed to be traded early, if at all.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 15, 2015 -> 03:29 PM) Did you see what the Bosox gave up for Kimbrel? They have more prospects left, plus Swihart. Not saying it'll happen, but I hear it's being discussed. They were willing to overpay for a closer. Would you give up overpay for a closer isn't that humongous, Compared to what you give up to pay for an ace. I think they gave for the closure wouldn't be enough to get even Q, who should return number two starter value, but likely wouldn't because he doesn't have the number two starter look. Also keep in mind that aces do hit the open market (2 available this year), which reduces the trade value.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 16, 2015 -> 08:05 AM) I don't see Danks or LaRoche going anywhere but I would be surprised if the Sox didn't move Robertson and Melky. The returns would not be all that spectacular but it would infuse some youth into the farm and open up room for youth on the Sox. With Melky gone, Eaton slides over to LF with Thompson going to CF. Avi can platoon with Shuck in RF and LaRoche at DH, unless the Sox pick up a better option for RF which would be nice. That's fine with me. But dispatching either of those two will require Sox putting up significant cash, which JR does not like to do. ( unless they are part of a bigger trade).

Trading Eaton certainly would create a hole at leadoff. But it would improve CF. Outfield D was a big problem with this team last year. As for Eaton's value, you tell me. Let's compare him to his greatness: Cargo = 2.4 WAR, 2 years of control at a bargain price of $18.5 million per annum Eaton = 3.6 WAR, 6 years of control at around $7 mill per year. Heck, if the CW on this board is correct that the the value of Cargo's 2.4 war (plus someone to root for in home run derby) is a multiplie player package of any decent prospect(s) we have except for Fulmer/Anderson, the Eaton return might plug 4 holes

Red Sox would never do that.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 14, 2015 -> 08:23 PM) You have written time and time again that Eaton isn't as good as his numbers , needs to be traded immediately. Keeping him is hero worship, and the Sox should build around Trayce Thompson who, ironically, isn't as good as his numbers. You really have a bad case of guys making the minimum worship. Right - just because you aren't as good as the numbers doesn't mean he's bad. Of course you don't build around Trayce. You build around the pitching and the players Eaton will return. Trayce can cover the position defensively, with his Offense TBD. The Sox need to plug 6 holes with solid major league talent. C, SS, 3B, LF, RF, pen. And the younger the better. Plug 4 of those and then go get your Cargo or whoever people want to woo over and convince themselves is elite. But don't trade the bullets to plug those holes until the holes are plugged. Build the foundation and then go get the big name. The Sox farm is just starting to turn the corner. Leave it alone. Or sign FAs. Sign Upton and Freese; move Avi and Melky out of here. (Colorado should try Avi on a buy low). Shift Eaton to left. Heck of an OF defense that can hit. Give Atlanta a bag of balls for 1 year of Aybar. Use Montas in the pen, at least for this year. Pen is improved. Make a few other small moves.

QUOTE (Whitey @ Nov 15, 2015 -> 07:24 AM) That is pretty close to what I was thinking for Sale (my version was Seager, Pederson, Urias, and a few lesser prospects). But, I would keep Quintana as the ace. To round off my mock offseason, I would also.... - Trade Robertson for prospects. Move Montas to setup, and Jones to closer. - Trade Micah (to NYY for Gary Sanchez). - Trade Melky for prospects. - Include considerable $ with Danks and LaRoche to entice someone to give up a prospect or two for them. - In FA, I would sign one of the Japanese OF's (Hyun-soo Kim or Ah-seop Son), and then bring back Buehrle for his farewell tour in 2016. I like all of these idea, with the following caveats: 1)I don't see Jones as having a long (or short) term future; hope I'm wrong. 2)There's something off with Sanchez; not sure what, although may be mental. QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 15, 2015 -> 09:20 AM) ~ Sanachez from the yanks, they need a young cost control sp. and MJ for Sanchez either Flowers or Andujar and convert him to a pitcher. 50 errors is a little too much but a 95 mph fastball is better. E Johnson? I hope the Sox do some of these kind of moves. Just looked at some pitchers WAR. Knew Q was good, but didn't realize he was #14. Danks wasn't bad either. Better than Shields. Danks' GB rate is only 36% - some team with a big park should grab him next year. Ian Kennedy checks in at #75, just ahead of Hector. Who's paying $$ for that and giving up a draft choice?

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 14, 2015 -> 07:40 PM) Is it easier to find a young outfielder with potential or a solidfied ace on an extremely team friendly deal? You know the answer to that. Your description of Springer is not how the Astros see Springer. Regardless, the Astros have an ace. They don't have another Springer. An Ace is not their missing ingredient. And Aces come available in the open market. There are 2 of them available this year. Players that the Astros think Springer is rarely do. There's a reason for that.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 14, 2015 -> 06:57 PM) Davidson might not ever play MLB. You are the one Eaton isn't any good. Quentin was good but always hurt and would never play meaningful games if the White Sox did what you want them to do and always trade for prospects and always be in a perpetual rebuild. I put data out there, not just the data that favors my position. It's called honest debate. Quentin carried us to the division in 2008. He didn't play the last month, but we aren't even in the race but for him. Where did I ever say Eaton wasn't any good? Do you think the people who come up with Q proposals believe Q isn't any good? I want to trade him because a)I think he is good but I think we can get better value in return; and b)His weakness (or area of mediocrity if you prefer)- lack of OF coverage - really hurts this team in this current OF structure where he is surrounded by 2 defensive oafs.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 14, 2015 -> 06:55 PM) Dye Contreras Loaiza El Duque There are plenty more heros that can be named, but you are welcome to focus on four that failed over 15 years. It is amusing that you use Davidson as a good thing Who said I see him as a good thing? I included Davidson for full disclosure. Not one on your list acquired by trading young players (although you could use Garcia for that). They were all acquired on the cheap. And you're going back a decade. You could add AJ for a clever signing like Dye I'm all for those. But ravaging our farm for the security blanket of yet another low OBP "star" like Frazier or Cargo, no matter how park-inflated they are, is madness.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 14, 2015 -> 07:25 PM) Another ace could put the Astros over the top. Imagine a rotation of Sale/Keuchel/McCullers/McHugh/Fiers That's a World Series winning rotation right there. They'd be dumb to not move Springer in a 1 for 1 swap like that. They'd lose a lot of their O. I wouldn't do it if I were them. They've got an ace. Q would really solidify their rotation. They need pen help too. Let me ask you this - would you take him straight up for Sale?

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 14, 2015 -> 07:15 PM) They would give him up in a straight up deal for Sale. I can guarantee that. Doubt it. They think he's Trout-like. Or he will be.

I put this article in the same category as Q for Starlin Castro. Silly stuff. The Astros would never give up Springer.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 14, 2015 -> 10:02 AM) I sure wish the Sox had the opportunity to repair Hudsons UCL two times. yea, Williams knew that was going to happen. Jackson Swisher Shark Dunn Those proven veterans. Meanwhile, prospect for prospect gets you: Quentin Eaton Davidson I'll take the latter approach.