CWSGuy406

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Oct 10, 2007 -> 05:53 PM) We hate you too. That's fine, so long as you keep hating from the NIT.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Oct 11, 2007 -> 04:22 AM) Yes, but you are comparing 3 players to 2 players. At very least you would need to include the VORP of the current Sox player being replaced by the extra player in the deal. Yes -- I'm comparing three to two because that's the trade. Fine, want me to include Jerry Owens' and Darin Erstad's VORP in there to make things better. I'm sure those two make a huge difference. Shields, Figgins, and Kotchman also out VORPed Manny Ramirez and Dustin Pedroia (70.5), but I doubt Boston is making that trade. That just makes no sense, but keep going. You are also using just one year of data, and one that is TREMENDOUSLY skewed by Figgins having a career year with the bat (his 36.2 VORP this year outpaced his 14.2 from 2006) And instead of using his best year, you choose to use 2006, Figgins' worst year. How about this -- we split the difference and go with his 2004-2005 numbers, where he put up an approxomate line of .295/.350/.410 while being a plus plus baserunner and a plus defender. The Sox don't have any CFer who can come close to doing that. and Konerko having a down year (his 25.4 VORP is way down from his past 3 years of 38, 46, 47.7). For the 19th time, Konerko is 32. Players at age who are 32 don't usually get better. I disagree. Fine. Prove to me that having Konerko + Garland will be better for the Sox in 2007 than Figgins, Shields, Kotchman and upwards of $20 million dollars.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Oct 11, 2007 -> 02:47 AM) And SJ scores on the PP, 2-1 SJ...... A real bulls*** hooking call on Ruutu, too.

Hawks getting outplayed tonight, lucky to have it tied heading into the third. Toews-Ruutu-Kane are the only forwards creating anything offensively. Seabrook also had a real bad turnover towards with about a minute left, lucky that San Jose didn't capitalize.

Toews debuts tonight. Koci and Vandermeer sitting with Zyuzin in the lineup.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 10, 2007 -> 11:18 PM) Serious question, if this trade goes down do we keep Contreras? If not do we have 3 of our rotation members from the Danks, Floyd, Gio, Eggy camp? As Balta said, even if this trade didn't happen and we traded Garland somewhere else, we're going to have that issue of having too many 'unproven' guys at the rotation at once. I agree with you about bringing somebody in -- is Colon a free agent? I'd take a flyer on him in a big incentive laden two year deal. I know Freddy Garcia isn't going to be ready by April, but I wouldn't mind doing the same with him (or Prior if the Cubs cut ties with him). And yes, I'd still be looking to deal Contreras to anyone who would take on the contract. I completely understand the ramifications of trading both Contreras and Garland this winter -- it puts your 3-through-5 in absolute disarray. If you couldn't bring in a starter, I'd give Danks the third spot, let Gio/Haeger/Egbert/Floyd battle it out for the final two spots and hope that your bullpen -- which would have a pretty good base with Shields, Jenks, Wassermann and Logan -- could pick up the slack. And you'd have to hope that your lineup of (semi-realistic): CF Figgins SS Furcal DH Thome RF Dye 1B Kotchman LF Fields C Pierzynski 3B Crede 2B Richar would get on-base and be in the top third in scoring runs in all of baseball.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 10, 2007 -> 07:30 PM) is it funny to anyone else that Angels fans want to get rid of Kotchman, in fact keep calling for that deal of Kotchman, Figgins and Santana for Tex, they call him soft, and injury prone. Yet we act like this guy is complete gold. Who exactly wants to get rid of Kotchman? FWIW, the trio of Shields, Figgins and Kotchman out-VORP'ed Konerko and Garland by a rather large margin (77.2 to 52). Even if you don't believe in VORP, those numbers show who's getting the better end of the deal, and that doesn't even take into account the ~$50 million off the books. As far as the Angel fans who want to get rid of Kotchman, let's hope that their GM is also in that camp. The more I think about a deal like this, the more I realize this deal would be a huge victory for the Sox -- arguably better than Kenny's swipe of Bartolo Colon.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 10, 2007 -> 05:43 PM) Will it be shown on the sports package like that? Because then im going to a bar to watch it for sure. If you're in Chicago, I'd guess they won't show it, but then again, I'm unfamiliar with most bars and how that works (whether they can get an outside feed or something like that). I'm in Milwaukee so I don't have that problem -- I get all the games, home and away, with the home games being the non-Hawks' feed (obviously).

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Oct 10, 2007 -> 05:30 PM) Especially the Marquette game because people in Wisconsin think thats a big rivalry. (I really could care less youre not in our conference.) Yeah, I think you have to be from Wisconsin to really 'be in' the rivalrly. I hate DePaul and Notre Dame exponentially more than I hate Wisconsin. Hell, I like Bo Ryan as a coach, so it's tough for me to hate them. Maybe things will change a bit if I go to the game and am outnumbered by the red, but I still don't think it will reach the levels of my hate for the Irish and B-Demons.

QUOTE(chimpy2121 @ Oct 10, 2007 -> 05:27 PM) I really want to get NHL Center Ice Online so I can watch tonights game, but I don't want to drop $160. Do you know anybody with the regular TV package? If so, I think you can probably do something where they buy it (and you pay them) -- they then send in a rebate form that shows they already have Center Ice, and IIRC, you get the price down to half of the $170. Kind of a pain in the ass way of doing it, but...

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Oct 10, 2007 -> 05:17 PM) When's the last time you were even the best in the state you reside? (I kid, I kid) Not sure how good Wisconsin will be this year, a lot of question marks, but more talent than we have had in the past. Should be a good year, hopefully finish in the top 25. Boo. MU is gonna roll the Badgers and Madison this year, sort of like last yea-.... ahh s***. You gonna be at that game? I'm making some efforts at getting tickets -- do you, by chance, know how much an upper deck seat is going to cost me?

//obligatory school-you-attend promoting post If you're reading this thread, Marquette is probably better than your team. I kid, I kid -- but this is the year my opinion of Crean's in-game abilities will really be formed. I'd say he was average last season, a pretty good defensive coach but a lot to be desired at the offensive end. If Crean doesn't know how to use this deep team, I'll be pretty pissed. We're also the number one seed of the Maui Invitational, a tourney that includes OK State, Duke and U of I. I haven't checked the brackets but I hope MU gets a shot at U of I.

Can't we start the college basketball thread yet? We have our Midnight Madness in about a week. That's also the date/weekend of Shumpert's visit, and a lot of the students know he's going to be there. And our top recruit, Trevor Mbakwe, was finally cleared (fully) to play and practice with the team. We're very deep this year. If one of our big men takes their game to the next level, we'll contend for Big East supremacy. If not, we'll probably still finish towards the back of the top five.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 10, 2007 -> 01:40 AM) I need a 30+ Hr, 100+ RBI guy to hit behind Vlad. There's two (if A-Rod opts out) of those guys on the market who would cost nothing but money, and two others (Jones and Hunter) who are pretty damn close who -- again -- cost nothing but money.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 10, 2007 -> 01:40 AM) Not really. Sure you can. If you're Anahiem, you're production at first-base is going to be marginally better for $12 million dollars more, and the arm you're getting back wouldn't even be your second best starter (maybe not even third best, depending on what you think of Weaver). Hell, ask any of the Halo fans over at BTF or a place like Halo's Heaven and I'm pretty sure they'd hate the deal.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 10, 2007 -> 12:39 AM) Yes an off year Konerko SLG 1999 .511 2000 .481 2001 .507 2002 .498 2003 .399 2004 .535 2005 .534 2006 .551 He's going to be 32 at the start of next year -- I would bet a large chunk of change that Konerko won't top 2006.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Oct 10, 2007 -> 12:01 AM) So to put simply, if Kotchman is really as good as you believe he is then why would the Angels even think about making a deal like this? Really, it's more hope on my part that anything. Hope that OPS+ isn't one of Stoneman's favorite stats; hope that Konerko's "perceived value" is greater than his actual on-field value. For example, Konerko gets a lot of those intangible tags like clutch (WS Grand Slam!!!! Biggest homer in my lifetime), clubhouse leader, proven veteran, 30/100 guy. It's more of a whim than anything. This rumor is bad because all it does is fuel that hope. And Daa, you got it right -- Konerko may, in fact, be better (right now and over the course of the next three years) -- I wouldn't make that argument but that's besides the point. But there's not a chance in hell Konerko is, over the next three years, $33 million dollars better.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 11:52 PM) Are you really going to use an off year of Paul's to compare. Off year? His OPS was down a little bit, but the dude is 31 -- this is just a guess, but PK doesn't strike me as a guy who's going to age gracefully. Over the next three years, I'd bet that Konerko's OPS is closer to his 2007 numbers than to his 2005-2006 numbers. Slugging percentage takes what you mentioned into account, so I don't see what significance that holds -- maybe that Kotchman's .296 BA was unsustainable? //goes and checks baseball-reference. Yeah -- Kotchman's BAPIP was just over .300. That's reasonable, so it tells me all the singles he was hitting weren't very fluke-y at all. BTW, I think a Kotchman-for-Konerko deal would be done for the money as much as (if not more) than it would be just to get Kotchman (bleh, talk about a choppy sentence). Thirty-six million off the books while, at the same time, becoming a younger club? Sign me up.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 11:21 PM) Gross deal. Shields was failing at the end of the year, Figgins is a super sub player and Kochman hasnt shown enough power potential to replace Konerko. Sure he has -- Konerko's slugging percentage was all of 20 points higher than Kotchman's (their OPS' were identical, with Kotchman's being more valuable do to a higher OBP). One played half his games in a spacious stadium while the other played half of his in a bandbox. One is 24, the other is 31. I think I've said this before... if Stoneman offered Kotchman straight up for Konerko I'd probably take that deal. Also -- when JO puts up an OBP above .340 in a season's worth of at-bats, maybe then we can talk of him as our future leadoff man. The only reason JO put up such good numbers in September because his BAPIP was ridiculously -- and unsustainably -- high. Also... when a great month constitutes a .767 OPS, you're not a very good player.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 10:47 PM) *Cough* Arod *Cough* I'd settle for Furcal if the Dodgers would take Contreras and a C prospect. That would give the Sox soooo much financial flexibility.

The trade would be a financial boon for the Sox. They'd have their CFer for the next few seasons, unless they wanted to ditch Crede altogether, put Figgins (or Fields) at 3B (with the other in left) and go after one of the FA CFers. If they made this happen, I'd just go with Figgins in center, Fields in left and Crede at third, and would look focus the rest of the winter's efforts on improving at SS. The rotation is going to take a hit if Garland is traded, no doubt, but the team is going to be lacking in some area(s) next year unless Kenny can work miracles.

Why's it an awful trade? Kotchman was a better player this year than Konerko and going forward I'd rather have Kotchman. I don't like the other part being (essentially) Garland for Figgins + Shields, but the deal would clear close to $50 million off the books (3*$12 + 1*$12). It's an extremely tempting offer, that's for sure, and not even close to being as awful as some of you are making it out to be. At the very least, this makes me happy to know that Konerko isn't off limits this winter. There's some teams out there who could use a guaranteed 25-35 homer guy (Yankees, Halos, Dodgers) and I'd love to see the Sox 'cash in' a bit.

An article about Chip Caray's general awful-ness this series. I don't remember listening to Caray for a four-game stretch like I did during this series, but he ranks right up there with Brenneman, Buck and DJ as guys who f***in' suck. http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/...dcast_booth_rr/

WHAT A CATCH BY DAMON! You suck, Chip. Finish this, Cleveland.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 02:03 AM) Owens LF Renteria SS Thome DH Konerko 1B Dye RF Rowand CF Pierzynski C Fields 3B Richar 2B That might give us the worst defensive team in all of baseball.