Jordan4life_2007

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 03:00 PM) I don't think asking for Santana when you're talking about dealing Greinke is silly. His minor league resume is sick and he was on his way to an easy ROY award until he got hurt. Oh yeah, he's a catcher. He'll never hit for the average, but I'm pretty confident when I say he'll be a much more productive offensive player than Joe Mauer.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 02:47 PM) Isn't that what the Royals should basically want if they're trading Greinke? Should they want it, sure? But there's wanting something and then there's reality. I know Dodgers fans that are still disgusted with that trade. I see it going down as one of those "Ten worst trades of the decade" type moves.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 01:26 PM) If they got the right package I'm sure they would. I don't know who could offer it to them though. Maybe Cleveland, if they were open on Santana. Whoa! Just caught this. Santana? That would be like the Giants being open to trading Posey. Santana is a monster and isn't going anywhere.

Any clue to what either would cost?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 06:17 PM) Stay classy. Fine, my fault. I shouldn't have said b****. But my point remains the same. I get sick of these athletes wives.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 06:13 PM) No, Nostalgia means nothing TO YOU. It means something to most fans, and for some it means a lot. I agree that Rasmus is far more valuable that MB, but the idea that MB is "declining" is just silly unless he gets worse next year. His numbers over time say he's not declining. I meant it means, or shouldn't mean, anything to those that matter. And let's face it, we don't matter. I know for every J4L (yes, I'm speaking in third person), there's 5 gregs. But in the REAL world, or in this case sports world, you don't pass up the opportunity to get better for sentimental reasons. But this would never happen anyway. I was just responding to the ridiculous hypothetical.

QUOTE (3E8 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 06:09 PM) $27.5M with 200IP in 2015 or 400IP in 2014 & 2015. $27.5? WTF? lol. Man f*** Cliff Lee. And this is another reason I will NEVER get married. Apparently his wife was a major factor in his decision to go back to Philly. b**** STFU and realize you're pretty worthless and just happen to be married to a professional athlete. So some dumbass Yankee fans were mean to you once. Not saying I wanted him to go to NY. But GMAB.

I'm really curious to learn more about the details of the vesting option and what would Lee get if he met the criteria. I'm hearing $20+ million? I'm getting sick of all the praise Lee's getting for "taking less" money. If the numbers are anywhere close to said $20 million, then he's not really taking less money at all.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 05:50 PM) Lol. Yeah, with all due respect, I don't see how anyone could even consider trading Rasmus for Buerhle. Big time, cost-controlled, MLB ready hitting prospect for $14m declining LHP with pedestrian stuff? When you don't have a need for starting pitchers? I mean, come on, even if STL needed a veteran pitcher, why wouldn't they just get someone cheaper and better? Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. But +1 if this is a serious post. Nostalgia means nothing in pro sports.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 09:17 AM) Having the ability to retain those players is pretty important though too. I mean, before moving into Target Field and resigning Mauer (and Morneau, Cuddyer, and the smaller extensions), how many players did the Twins either trade or lose to free agency simply because they couldn't afford to keep them? Same thing with Tampa Bay and Milwaukee, and going back a few years, Cleveland and Oakland too. Boston spending as much as they do on the MLB roster does have a huge effect on their team, regardless of whether they are producing those players or not. Had Youkilis come up with Oakland and had this much success, do you think there's any way he's still with them today? I would say there is no shot in hell of that. I agree. That's why I said I would never discount the financial advantage they have. But to find that much talent in a relative short amount of time isn't just about spending money. QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 09:21 AM) Yes it is. On that list Pedroia was the real find. You want to talk about scouting on a budget you need to look at Atlanta. Will agree to disagree. As I get older, I just don't see things in a vacuum nearly as much (not saying that is the case with you). I notice with some on this board that there's always something. Phillies? Twins? Red Sox? Doesn't matter. Just don't give them credit no matter what. The Red Sox are the s***. I don't care what anybody says.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 09:05 AM) Sure makes it a lot easier with a payroll that size. That's the easy response. But they spend on the draft and have become a player development machine. Look at their current core, guys all in their 20's that came up through their system: Pedroia, Youk, Ellsbury, Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon and Bard. You're talking all-star to MVP caliber right there. When your system can produce that much then yes, it's A LOT easier to flex your financial muscle. And then have enough to land a bonafide superstar (Gonzalez) and still have valuable pieces in the system? I won't discount the financial advantages they have. But it's certainly not as simple as "well, they can spend x amount of dollars."

QUOTE (beautox @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:57 AM) i said quasi quasi- combining form seemingly; apparently but not really having said that and getting back on topic, yes the red sox just dropped a ton of coin on crawford and gonzalez, but they've still got a strong farm to supplement talent at the major league level and up the middle no less. I also think Boston signs Martin and he turns it around in Fenway. I know what you meant. The Red Sox have become the model franchise in baseball and I'm very, very, very jealous.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 09:00 AM) Slightly OT...does anyone other than me sit here, read something like this about Lee, and think "how the Hell did the guy who could barely stay in the league in 2007 turn into a student of the game overnight"? Are you implying something?

QUOTE (balfanman @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 08:17 AM) I don't think that Buehrle would accept a trade to the Yankees either, but I do have to disagree on the bolded statement. I don't know how you define "caliber", and for the record I don't know how I would define it either, but I think that Buehrle is at least in the same ballpark as Lee as a pitcher. Lee may have better stuff, I'm not real sure about that as I haven't watched Lee all that much, Buehrle has a much longer tract record, and both are a little risky for various reasons already discussed. At the moment it is very possible that Lee is a better overall pitcher, just not head and shoulders above Buehrle in my opinion. I look at it this way; If the White Sox (Buehrle starting} were playing Lees' team (Lee starting}, I would give the Sox a very good chance of winning with Buehrle outpitching Lee that day. If they played a 100 times, I would give the Sox a very good chance at winning at least 50 of them. lol

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 07:55 AM) Youth Movement = spending $300 million on Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez. Obviously he wasn't talking youth movement as in a Marlins or Royals type of youth movement. But the Red Sox have obsessed over the farm and player development since Theo took over and they, according to "experts", have capable replacements all over the place (save catcher, which they have nothing) and a bevy of draft picks coming up with the Martinez and eventual Beltre signings. And when your core consists of Gonzalez, Crawford, Pedroia, Youkilis, Lester Buchholz and Bard, you don't need these guys to be elite.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 07:32 AM) I hear Phillies have a deal in place that sends Blanton to Boston Red Sox, per Rosenthal, Heyman. I definitely see Mike Cameron being involved in such a deal.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 07:25 AM) According to BR.com: Halladay - $20 mil Oswalt - $16 mil (-$7 mil from Astros) Lee - $24 mil Hamels - $9.5 mil Blanton - $8.5 mil So thats about $78 million in the rotation, $71 mil of which they pay themselves. Thanks. I wasn't sure if they got any money back from the Astros. Otherwise I was just a couple million off. But even at $71 million, that's just crazy to think about.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 07:22 AM) Chances are the contract eventually becomes an albatross, however, Jaime Moyer is always out there as an example of someone who struggled while they were young and turned it on as an older pitcher and really aged well. He's a one in a million probably and is probably a bad example, but he is an example. Personally, unless I was the Yankees and can make $100 million mistakes without it really harming me, I don't think I would have offered Lee the money. Between the ridiculous Howard extension and this move, the Phillies basically are the Yankees. Not to the exact same degree. But I'm stunned they were able to pull this off. Their 4-year tear through the NL has obviously generated quite a bit of coin and they're spending it.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 07:09 AM) Thanks for the response. Moreover, I just realized that the Yankees don't really have another outfielder to replace anyone currently in their outfield. I thought that Thames was still there, but it looks like it will be Granderson, Gardner and Swisher, with no one else really ready to help. Yeah, the Yankees system is loaded with catching and pitching prospects. But they're pretty dry when it comes to position prospects.

So if my math is correct, and it's probably not as I suck at math, the Phillies are currently sporting a rotation that will make around $80 million next year? I can't remember if the Phillies got any cash back from the Oswalt trade. But give or take a few million and $80 sounds about right.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 06:47 AM) I think that these trade ideas have to be based upon a mutual need, and desire on the part of both teams. With that in mind, how about this idea floated by a poster on WSI?: Joe Blanton and his 2 yr. $ 17 mil. contract and Domomnic Brown for Carlos Quentin? The Phillies might actually go for that deal. They're looking for a Right handed power hitting outfielder, to replace Werth, and they want to dump Blanton's salary. However, which pitcher then gets traded, and for what? Now the Buerhle to the Yankees idea makes more sense. But maybe we take Granderson instead of Gardner. Granderson helps make up the loss of Quentin, better than Gardner would. Moreover, the Yankees would be much more likely to trade him than Gardner. Your outfield is Dominic Brown in LF, Granderson in CF, and Rios in RF. That is a great defensive outfield. Vs. LHP you could sit Granderson, put Viciedo in LF, Rios in CF and Brown in RF The savings on Quentin and Buerhle would pay for Granderson, Blanton and Brown, and leave a little money left over this year for a reliever or two. I like your proposal. But I follow the Phillies quite extensively and from everything I've heard/read, Dominic Brown is essentially their Jason Heyward. The Phillies have been trading prospects at a furious pace the last few years. But Brown is still there. They wouldn't even include him in any package for Halladay. No way in hell they're trading him for CQ (though I'm sure they'd love to shed Blanton's salary). As far as MB to the Yankees, I don't see a match there. Granderson is notoriously worthless against LHP and is owed over $18 million the next two years. They're probably already regretting that trade. Gardner is one of the few quality, cost-controlled players they have. I doubt they would part for with him in any deal for Buehrle.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 06:30 AM) agreed....and its a decent possibility. Oswalt was trending in the wrong direction before his rebound year last year (ERAs of 3.18, 3.54, 4.12). Disclaimer: By no means am I about to say that cliff Lee is bad or anything like that. I do think cliff lee is overrated though. He's being paid top 5 starter money, for a guy who is 26-22 with roughly a 3.20 ERA over the last two seasons. Still very good numbers, but given the fact that he is on the wrong side of 30, and is just 3 years removed from being a 29 year old with a 6.29 ERA who got sent back to the minors, I think there is considerably more risk in these deal than most people realize. Lee was going to get paid. There was no way around this fact. All those other factors you mentioned (save the 26-22 record, which IMO means nothing) are legit. But nobody was getting Lee for 3 years and 30 million. Just wasn't happening. The Phillies are now the PROHIBITIVE NL favorite and likely overall favorite save the Red Sox. If they can push out out a title or two in the next 3-4 years then they (the Phillies) win.

Yankees fans from NYYfans.com have gone into full-blown meltdown mode. They actually think they should go "all-out" for one of Josh Johnson or Felix Hernandez now. I will say that if I'm KW and Cashman offers up Jesus Montero as a starting point for John Danks that I'm definitely listening. Their rotation (Yankees) is a mess right now. They could get really desperate.

Took a bunch of meds yesterday because I was sick and clunked out around 9. Just waking up and saw this s***. I have no words, really. Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, Hamels. It doesn't even look or sound right. Lee must've really loved it in Philly. Hard to believe that just 5-6 years ago the Phillies were a doormat.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 12:15 PM) Because one year of stats is always a good way to measure value. Yeah, I get it. Never mind that Rasmus struck out at a Jordan Danks like clip. Or that in 3 of the last 4 year, Buehrle has had an ERA below his career average of 3.85 GMAB. Rasmus was rated the #3 prospect by BA going into 2009. He was a 3.5 WAR at the ripe old age of 23. All you have to do is watch him play and you can see the insane talent that is there. If the Cardinals called up and asked for Buehrle and said will give you Rasmus KW would have to enter the witness protection program due to every GM in the game being kermit the frog green with envy. Don't compare Jordan f***ing Danks to Colby Rasmus.