redandwhite

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 09:49 PM) fixed <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There you go

link "There's a code of honor when so much is on the line," Rodriguez told the New York Daily News. "You hope people do the right thing. But you can't control what people do." *** Hey slappy, wasn't it the Yankees who threw out a triple a line-up on sunday ruining the Indians chances of making the playoffs? Here's an idea, how about you win a few more games and take homefield away from the White Sox and stop your complaining or does this "code of honor" apply to everyone but you. What a dickhead.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 09:43 PM) FYI, I was a psych major. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> maybe you were just rushing but your post from before was one of the most butchered things I have ever read in my entire life.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 09:40 PM) It was a joke, actually takin a shot at A-rod. Teens are so moody. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know. I missed that second part. I am in a great mood.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 09:39 PM) Come to my senses? What part of thinking Hafner was more valuable to his team than either one of those guys? If you take Manny out of the Boston lineup, does he hit as well? I dont think so. And I said gold glove caliber defense, which I think he does, considering he is a SS. In no way does he deserve the gold glove. Ortiz doesnt deserve the MVP, plain and simple. He is HALF as valuable to his team as A-rod is, because he only plays HALF the game A-rod does. Offense is fine and dandy to the casual fan, but I feel that it is only half the game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I just want to bump this considering earlier in this thread you advised me not to be an english major.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 09:31 PM) On another note. If you look at the word value. Shouldnt the cost of the player relative to the teams payroll be factored in? Just a suggestion. Because then A-rod would just be living up to his price tag, not really a value. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Messing around or not, that brings up another good point. Right now David Ortiz is the biggest bargain in the game aswell. Keep digging, pal.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 09:34 PM) I thought Shannon Stewart was the MVP in 2003. His numbers weren't close to that of ARod or anyone else up for MVP consideration. MVP = most valuable player. You take Hafner out of the Indians lineup, and I would venture to guess that there is a chance they don't win 85, perhaps 80. You take Ortiz out of the Boston lineup, and they'll still win 90. ARods gonna win it anyways, so this entire argument seems to be moot. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Red Sox win 90 games without Ortiz? Not a single chance. As for Slappy winning the MVP, I'll make a wager with you, if you'd like.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 09:23 PM) It comes down to this, and please, argue if you can. If the offensive numbers are equal, why should the DH win over a player who plays gold glove defense as well? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Im glad you've come to your senses, and I feel no need to continue to discuss the first part of your post because it would only waste time. As for how a DH can win over a player who plays gold... well hold on a second here, lets stop right there. Slappy is second to last in both his Zone Rating and Range Factor and is middle of the pack for all other statistics. With that being said, the statistics are a tad misleading, because slappy is a solid third baseman, but he doesn't deserve the gold glove, isn't a gold glove third baseman, and is only being percieved as one for something you've accused me of multiple times, popularity and bias. not to mention i don't think its fair to penalize a player for a team placing him at a position where he has the best chance to succeed and help his team win.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 09:15 PM) I do enjoy it when the green isn't even necessary. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's the only way...

QUOTE(The Critic @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 09:11 PM) It was either them or a 3rd catcher and extra middle reliever. I heard it came down to a coin flip. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ortiz was left off the roster because Francona wanted some more versatility defensively in the field.

QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 09:11 PM) Take a look at where we rank in these categories when you get a chance: Team OBP Team SLG Team OPS AVG w/ RISP SB % (worst in the AL) Hits Doubles If you think this is merely a discussion in regards to straight-up batting average rankings, you are mistaken. We are easily a bottom 5 offense in all of the MLB. There is no argument. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Great post, I agree.

QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 09:10 PM) Hafner doesn't play on the East coast, Stupid Rock. :rolly <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Explain how an East coast bias has any pull in this situation.

Carrying only ten pitchers and having Hyzdu and Machado is certainly interesting.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 09:04 PM) How do you judge us to be the third worst offense, exactly? I believe we finished the season 13th in MLB in runs scored, and while we were 9th in the AL...that's at worst the 5th worst in that league. Yeah, our batting average sucks, but batting average doesn't define an entire offense. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 11th in batting average and on-base percentage. When I look at a team as a whole, I value batting average far higher than I would for an individual player. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

QUOTE(Wong & Owens @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 08:56 PM) No it's not. Experience is nice and all, but there is no amount of experience that can compensate for an aging, broken-down body. The WS have teed off on Schilling this year, and Wells scares no one. If anything, they're overrated based on name recognition. Clement has almost a 6.00 ERA in the second half, and his postseason ERA is also near 6.00. Wakefield is always a threat to get bombarded by the third inning, and the most consistent guy isnt even getting a start(Arroyo). Plus, only Wakefield has the ability to go deep in games, so that bullpen is coming out-- no matter how good the starters pitch. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The White Sox "teed" off on Schilling when he was first starting his comeback trail. He still isn't 100%, but he's gained some of that arm strength back, and I can't imagine him being any short of spectacular when he's on the mound. As for Wells, he had 15 wins, averaged just about a half inning less per game than Mark Buehrle, the IP leader, and has performed well at times this year. Clement has never been the same since being hit in the face in Tampa, but i find it hard to believe he'll be his second half self tommorow. and Wakefield being bombarded by the third? He surely s*** the bed saturday, but he has been a Red Sox legend, and has stepped up in big games more than anyone. The rotation is in shambles, it would seem, but I am not worried.

QUOTE(AirScott @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 08:56 PM) as of right now, if I were Francona the only guy I would have confidence in throwing out there is Schilling, because he lives for this and he pitched well yesterday. you can't call a pitching staff underrated when none of those starters has an ERA below 4.15. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wakefield, Wells aren't big game pitchers? Clement is a very inconsistent pitcher, but when he's on, he's one of the best pitchers in baseball.

QUOTE(iWiN4PreP @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 08:53 PM) Why marte when you have B-mac, is stupid. :| B-mac > marte <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Ortiz factor.

QUOTE(Reddy @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 08:00 PM) this is important stuff. we are better than the sawks in EVERY category in my mind except for their middle of the order. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Red Sox offense has been the best in baseball, the White Sox has been the third worst. The Red Sox pitching rotation is vastly underrated and has alot of experience with David Wells and Curt Schilling at the top. The White Sox have a much better bullpen, the Red Sox have more depth offensively. It's virtually high powered offense versus high powered pitching staff; usually pitching wins, but we shall see. Good luck.

Projo: BOSTON -- The Red Sox don't have to submit their 25-man roster until tomorrow and probably won't officially announce it until then, but after internal discussions over the weekend, the club was close to finalizing its group last night. Indications were that the Sox would go with just 10 pitchers for their first-round American League Division Series with the Chicago White Sox, which begins tomorrow. Those 10 will be starters Matt Clement, David Wells, Tim Wakefield and Curt Schilling, and relievers Bronson Arroyo (shifted from the rotation), Mike Timlin, Mike Myers, Chad Bradford, Jonathan Papelbon and Lenny DiNardo. As recently as 10 days ago, the team was leaning toward an 11-man pitching staff for the first round, working under the assumption that rookie Craig Hansen would establish himself as a force in the bullpen. But because Hansen struggled, and with Arroyo stretched out and ready to contribute in relief, the team elected to go with just 10 pitchers. With 15 position players in place, the breakdown looks like this: catchers (2) Doug Mirabelli and Jason Varitek; infielders (8) John Olerud, Kevin Millar, Tony Graffanino, Alex Cora, Edgar Renteria, Kevin Youkilis, Alejandro Machado and Bill Mueller; DH (1) David Ortiz; outfielders (4) Manny Ramirez, Johnny Damon, Trot Nixon and Adam Hyzdu. Teams may change rosters in between postseason series. *** I figured this might be of interest to White Sox fans.

The Red Sox bandwagon grew after they won the World Series? what a concept. Bandwagons grow as team's succeed, this isn't news to anyone. Infact, I wouldn't doubt the White Sox bandwagon has grown this season more than the Red Sox did upon winning the World Series. I remember going to the 2000 ALDS and walking up on the day of the game and getting three solid lower deck seats. What a difference five years makes. I guess that means the White Sox are now the Cubs too?

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 08:18 PM) Listen son. When you grow up you will realize that you need to form your own opinions. Until then, your high school brain will continue to grow and mature beyond its current state. Yes Hafner, becaue I still think that MVP should be the most valuable player, not the most popular. I think Hafner's performance down the stretch on the hottest team in baseball at the time was MVP worthy. And in all honestly, if Mark hadnt knocked him out of the lineup for several weeks, his stats may have been better than your man-crush. Ortiz and A-rod are on the two richest teams, surrounded by all-star talent. Ortiz is protected by who might be one of the best right handed hitting players of all time. This is all besides the point. Ortiz does not deserve the MVP this year because not only is A-rod as good offensively, he actually plays the field, and is a great player on that side of the ball as well. He is a better player, is in the game 100 percent more often, and therefore is more valuable. Thanks for playing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What on earth are you talking about? Age, race, the color of the sky.. none of that should matter in this argument. Normally I would never say someone's opinion is wrong, but its tough with you, because nine times out of ten thats exactly what you are. It's hard to imagine how you came up with Hafner being more valuable, because in every aspect of the game, Ortiz has been just as good if not more, and this time you don't have the defensive argument to boot. The difference between the two's batting average, on-base percentage, and slugging is so miniscule its pointless to differentiate. However, the power numbers, your home runs and rbis, is a completely different story. Ortiz has 14 more home runs and 40-plus more rbi's than Hafner. There are players in the league that start and don't have 14 home runs and 40-plus rbis, and on the White Sox that might as well be a 6-7 hitter in the line-up. David Ortiz has out performed Travis Hafner not only this year statistically, but down the stretch as well. As for Slappy, it's a good debate, a great one infact. However, Ortiz was 19 for 48 with nine homers and 23 RBIs from the seventh inning on with a chance to tie or put the Red Sox ahead. Not even Slappy can say that. It was said yesterday on ESPN by one of the analysts, a channel I normally enjoy watching for its comedy, that David Ortiz is the most feared hitter in baseball right now. Alex Rodriguez isn't even the most feared hitter on his team. David Ortiz will win the MVP, and any such praise he has gotten has been more than deserved.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 03:51 PM) Nothing personal beyond the fact you're a Red Sox fan. It was intended in a good natured way. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey, fine by me.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 04:22 PM) what do you mean by the way he put up the numbers? Is he using a special bat, or closing one eye? Either way, Pronk and A-rod deserve it more. I actually like mike Young's season as well, even though it would never happen. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hahaha. Hafner are you kidding me? The case can be made for A-Rod, but Hafner? I was wrong, you aren't better than that. Again quit while you're behind.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 04:26 PM) Dont make yourself look ignorant. To equate white sox fans with Red sox and yankees fans is ridiculous. We arent even the most popular team in our own city. Come on man. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This isn't a popularity contest, we all know that the large market teams have first prize wrapped up there. the fact of the matter is that fans of any team are going to have people who do crazy things, afterall the word "fan" is short for fanatic. Stop being a fool, youre better than that, I suggest you quit while youre behind.

QUOTE(EvilMonkey @ Oct 3, 2005 -> 03:58 AM) I HATE the Red Sox. The fans have been worse this year than Cubs fans! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can you explain this? and for the record, I am not taking this personal, and really don't give two s***s about what some schmo on a message board says about the Red Sox, but want to hear his reasoning for what he is saying.