Fotop

Seriously though, you can't talk that much more about potential with CLee for the fact that he IS 28. In some schools of thought, a player's best season occurs when they are 27. Lee will never have good plate discipline, he shows flashes of it, but in the end he resorts to the swing as hard as you can at the first pitch school of thought. Granted, the numbers CLee put last year were impressive and I hate to see him go but you have to give something to get something. With Anderson and Sweeney still in our minors I think this is the type of risk we take at this point. We strengthen our bullpen and the top of our order for the cost of a middle of the order hitter. My only concern is this deal shows how much faith we have in Rowand...if he doesn't perform our Outfield could have gone from one of the strongest in the AL to mediocre in one season.

Right, I knew that...the question was a bit more rhetorical as I was trying to point out how good of a basestealer Podsednik is. I'm not sure what his success rate was, but I assume it's one of the top in the league. To me, this looks like trading a strength to turn a weakness into a strength (if you can follow that). This team has plenty of power, especially for USCF, and by getting Podsednik we immediately improve the baserunning of a historically station to station team. I think the reactions of most that don't like this deal are warranted, but people are forgetting the value of the SB. I know all of you statheads/moneyball disciplines are gonna bash me for praising the SB, believe me I follow the numbers as well, but moneyball wasn't just about OBP iZ AWESomE!!11 The overarching theme of the "moneyball" concept is to find inefficencies within the market and expose them. Am I saying that stolen bases are undervalued? Not necessarily, but what I am saying is that everyone is keen on OBP,SLG,OPS, etc. these days so mid-market teams such as the Sox need to use that to their advantage. This ultimately means dealing guys like CLee that the stat people covet. Do I think we got good value for CLee though? Yes if you consider the 6million dollar savings, maybe if you don't. I just get this feeling that now that he's gone everyone is making CLee out to some kind of superstar...which he wasn't.

Quick question for those who absolutely hate this deal... How the hell did Podsednik steal 70 bases with only a .314 OBP? The guy is just that talented at stealing bases, something this team doesn't have. Hell, I love to watch him play just because of that. Now to think how many he could steal with a decent OBP? Maybe 80-90, possibly 100 if he gets on base at an amazing clip. I personally don't think this is going to be a todd ritchie-esque deal when it's all said and done. CLee, for all of his numbers, had his faults. I was never able to get over the fact that his plate discipline is flat out awful. Is he talented? Yes, but I think I'd rather see a "smart" player in Podsednik...especially when he's 6mil cheaper. Plus he could teach willie a thing or two about stealing bases. Who knows what's up the Sox sleeve...so like Jason said it's wait and see. However, for the time being I'm content with adding a leadoff hitter to our team. We haven't had a good one in a long time. Also, don't forget our bullpen now has two proven righties, marte, shingo, politte and cotts. That's pretty damn good.

What's the exact deal? Is it Lee for Pods/Ginter? If so we got hosed...

On another note, because Sexson is probably not going back to the D-Backs... How bad do they look for making that deal for him in the first place? Didn't they give up something like 5 or 6 players for Sexson? For one year of 20 something games and injuries? From a PR perspective, not re-signing him is terrible... But I guess since they've gotten Troy Glaus and Russ Ortiz for the long haul, everything is going to be ok. I mean we b**** about the White Sox organization, but the D-Backs are a hell of a lot worse (even though they won a world series recently). They're in for a world of hurt in the next few years.

Yea, this week. Basketball polls are MEANINGLESS, especially at this time of year. I mean come conference time who's the better team, Illinois who's beating up on the soft big ten or a UNC/Duke that's lost a few games to powerhouse ACC teams? Sure Illinois' record may look good, but I'll take the battle-tested team anyday, however Illinois probably gets the higher ranking because they went undefeated the week a UNC/Duke lost a game or two to harder opponents. The gaudy record is sometimes too much for pollsters to look past, and sometimes overinflate the actual "strength" of a team. This isn't a knock on U of I basketball, please don't interpret it as that...they're a quality team. I'm just saying don't put too much stock into weekly basketball polls. Especially in December.

We will be back. You can count on that. The Dome is still golden. The Hemlets are still golden. And our program will be golden again. So for all you haters, have your moment now...just remember the reason you hate us in the first place: we WERE better than you. we USED to beat the snot out of you. And we WILL again. You just can't deny the fact that it will happen eventually, because it is Notre Dame. So until then enjoy your time in the sun, we've got plenty of memories to bide our time until our return to glory. Btw, our basketball program ain't too shabby.

Eh i just have high expectations for ND that's all. We were decent this year and could have been good if we played on a consistent level and protected our homefield.

haha. yea I know I did... However, Tennessee is really not all that good, I mean they started two freshman qb's. I really don't care what anyone says concerning their talent, adjusting to the college game as a true freshman is extremely difficult and it would seem that it takes at least a year to get comfortable. Probably why their offense hasn't been all that great this year...well that and injuries. Like I said maybe I'm biased in my opinion, but there are plenty other teams in the country that are probably better than Tennessee. (Also, their schedule is something like blah...blah...FLORIDA...blah...blah GEORGIA...and sometimes Auburn or LSU. Again this could be the ND bias seeing as though we always play a tough schedule so my vision of a "normal" schedule is a bit skewed).

WE beat Tennessee...and we were an average team (ND that is...6-5). I wouldn't consider Tennesee a "great" team this year, let alone one of the top teams in the country. Sure Tennessee has nine wins, but I would not consider them that scary of a team...maybe it's just because I thought we were just that bad.

I volunteered to take over Texas, so I'm assuming they're mine. Also, is there anyway I could get the league file at all? I'm much better at navigating the game than the website, also wouldn't those of us with the game just be able to upload our changes to the server? I think that system works a lot better than writing out all of our changes (lineups, rotations, minors, etc.)

Tell me about it...I was there.

Bleh, I guess being around ND for three years now I'm the only one who thinks they don't need a conference. Hell, the last time we "tried" to join a conference (Big 10) all the big schools objected because they thought that ND would beat the s*** out of them. The only conference that makes sense for ND is the Big 10 and really that's the only conference I'd be content with ND joining. Big East football is garbage, the ACC is nowhere near our geographic rivals, and the other conferences are way too far away. Logicistically, the Big 10 is the only one that makes sense, and from what I remember Ohio State and Michigan want no part of ND in their conference...however that was quite a few years ago, maybe they've changed. Jason, I see your point about it helping recruiting...but I don't think the recruiting impact is significant enough to join a conference. ND already gets a top 25 class pretty much every year (well except maybe for this year). Oh and the last BCS bowl was under Davie (Fiesta v. Oregon State), Ty only got us to the Gator (v. Nc State).

I wholeheartedly agree with you about having a plan before firing Ty. That was my sticking point as to whether or not I would agree with Ty getting fired. Therefore, if ND is gonna be in the dark as to who will be their next coach I think they should have thought this out a bit more. P.S.: I think this thread has been officially hijacked.

Ty got paid just over 2million. They defintely are not going to be cheap when it comes to a Head Coach. I agree with you about wanting Petrino, his offense was actually better than Meyer's this year...only I worry about his ability to recruit under our standards. I really don't know much about Davis, but he just doesn't seem to fit the ND profile...that's just a hunch on my part. I really believe that the recruiting restrictions is what turns off all of these top-flight coaches, and maybe ND should look into giving 1 or 2 exceptions per class (not 6 though, that's insane). The thing about the conference though...I doubt we'll ever see that happen. As long as ND has its contract with NBC, being in a conference does nothing for them. All of the ND home games are nationally televised and most road games are as well. If they join a conference that means they'd have to kick back bowl money to said conference...ND is too greedy for that. Last time then went to a BCS bowl they pocketed $14million. So what is there to gain from joining a conference at this juncture? An easier schedule is the only plus I see, but ND itself has already decided to start making the schedule easier (I think starting in 2008).

Supposedly Meyer had already said he was going to UF before ND even got there. The money wasn't a sticking point as many wish to believe, for Meyer to come to ND he wanted 6 exceptions to the academic standards for recruits. That's way too many for a school that still adheres to the concept of "student-athlete". Meyer went to UF because he could win easier there and get the players he wants (plus UF is already damn good). Plain and Simple, it had little to do with money, and if money were the only obstacle I doubt ND would have balked at not forking over the dough...they have a 3 billion dollar endowment for christ's sake.

I know that losing Meyer hurt. That's obvious, because basically our recruiting is screwed for this year. However, my point was what does Illinois signing Zook have anything to do with ND? Absolutely nothing, so I don't understand why people have been on ND's case in this thread. Can we get a coach nearly as good as Meyer still? I think so, Petrino, Weis and Tedford could all be possibilites with Ferentz, Davis, Stoops, and other wildcards as darkhorses.

how? by not getting meyer or zook? I guess Ferentz, Davis, Petrino, Weis, et al must be s*** then. I don't even think Zook was on NDs radar, so to say that they're "screwed" because they didn't get Meyer or Zook is jumping the gun a bit. Wait and see.

Well Meyer hasn't signed on the dotted line yet, but ND should seriously be looking elsewhere right now...and fast. Seriously, we need to break the bank on this one and not getting Meyer puts us in a HUGE hole. However, you never know. There could be a major darkhorse we're not seeing/is being covered very well. I just don't see ND being THAT stupid in firing Willingham, in the middle of prime recruiting time, without having a surefire big name coming to campus almost immediately.

Ok I'd take the Rangers over...just one little problem...what's the website for all of this? Does it have the league file on it?

Is this OOTP6? I haven't played in awhile, but I'd be interested. Also, are the rosters the current major league rosters w/current finances? If someone is able to fill me in on the details, I'd be willing to take the Rangers.

They said that about Oklahoma too before Stoops got there...

Well i was just trying to point out that he didn't recruit well, but he still didn't coach well either. Guys like Zook and Mack Brown get some slack because of their recruiting and Ty was touted as being able to recruit top talent for ND. He didn't live up to that, nor did he win enough games to overcome that. The agrument isn't solely based on recruiting, I was just assuming that everyone could look at the record since the BC loss in the first year and see that he wasn't coach well either, because you could disregard some of that 8-0 start to sheer luck (final drive wins, good fortune with turnovers) and to the fact that those players were recruited by Davie.

Wow, what a day. As a current student at ND, I can say first hand that this has been a crazy day on campus (obviously). For awhile, I felt as though Ty was going to get the ax sooner rather than later...comes with the territory around here; everyone expects to win. Many can point to race (which is ridiculous in my mind) or the fact that he only got 3 years compared to Davie and Faust's 5, but the fact of the matter is our program has been embarrassed since Ty lost his first time to Boston College. When you haven't beaten one of your most hated rivals (BC) in 3 years, lost to USC by 31 points in each of those years, and other disappointing loses to teams of lesser talent (see BYU and PITT this year), you have to think you're not in good favor with those who sign the checks. Let's face it, with Willingham the recruiting class this year projected out to be in the 15th overall range, and it still does if ND quickly remedies the situation. Last year's recruiting class was the WORST in ND history (32nd overall), so it's not like Ty was recruiting impact players to turn the program around immediately. Therefore, ND took action....swiftly. This year's coaching crop is extremely talented (Meyer, Tedford, Chow, Petrino, Boise St's Coach (cant remember his name), and even Neuheisel). I most certainly think it's better to act now (because Ty probably would have been fired next year anyway) and get a quailty coach while we can. All signs are pointing to Urban Meyer as the new coach, and I'd be quite happy with Meyer. He's turned two mid-major teams into national contenders (Bowling Green and Utah) and has only lost 1 game at Utah. He has a love for our school and he has experience here (5 years under Lou Holtz as a coordinator). I have a feeling that the reason this all went down was because ND wanted Meyer...bad. They probably have a preliminary deal done with Meyer, because to let go of a great coach like Willingham without a sound plan in place is bonkers. As for the state of the program, it's bleak because our advantages are no longer advantages anymore: -All of NDs games are nationally televised. This used to matter, but now with so much sports coverage, many teams get sufficent coverage by the national media. This is no longer a huge drawing point for the Irish. -11 National Titles, the most in all of college football. This tradition appeals to some, but it seems as though its not nearly as important as it used to be to recruits. Today it's all about who can get me to the pros and other perpheral reasons for going to a school (geography being rather important these days). Whoever the new coach is, he'll many large obstacles to overcome: -The current team lacks impact players at most key positions, most notably cornerback. There really is no quick fix for this and the new coach will have to string together a few great recruiting classes to fix this in the long run. - The schedule is one of, if not the toughest in all of college football. 4 of the first five games for the Irish next year are on the road (most notable road game: week 2 v. michigan), and powerhouse USC is always on the schedule. -Recruiting this year will be severly hindered without a coach. If the process of finding a new coach, or waiting for Meyer until the Fiesta Bowl is over, takes too long the Irish can lose out on many key recruits that could jumpstart the program (Johnathan Stewart to name one). -Academic Standards. Randy Moss, TJ Duckett, Maurice Clarrett, all of these recruits could have and would have come to ND if it weren't for such strict academic standards (if I recall correctly, TJ Duckett didn't want to take calculus...whatever). I doubt the university budges on this one, and it's just something the coach will have to deal with. -Finally, the new landscape of modern college sports has caused each team's fans to expect more and more from an increasingly difficult landscape. With the amount of money tossed around, fans expect excellence year in and year out (take Nebraska for example; they fired Solich after winning 8 games). The ND job is then one of the most stressful and pressure filled jobs in the country. To draw a baseball analogy, it's like resurrecting the Yankees. Anyways, the only thing that is bothering me about this situation is the fact that race is playing an issue in the national media. Granted, they're motivated by ratings and selling papers/magazines, but they're completely slandering a school who if I'm not mistaken was one of the few schools who hired an african-american coach in the first place. Ty's record was ONE game better than Bob Davie's....he just didn't work out here and admistration decided to strike when the iron was hot, end of story. As a member of the student body, I can say that most, if not all of us thought that Tyrone Willingham represented our university as well as anyone could. He's an amazing person and everyone holds him as a person in the highest regard. He just didn't come through for our program, and it was time for a change. We all wish him the best of luck in the future, wherever he coaches next. Sorry for the long post guys, just wanted to give anyone curious an ND perspective. -Fotop P.S.: Meyer is already having an effect on ND recruiting if he does choose to come, according to Tom Lemming. Lemming is stated that now that Ty is fired, Greg Paulus (#2 Qb recruit in the country) is strongly considering ND and there's a chance top QB recruit Josh Portis could drop his committment to Utah and follow Meyer. However, Evan Sharpley (QB committed to ND) is listening to other schools now that Ty is gone.

"Weak" Notre Dame team? Come on, you can say that it was your worst moment, but to say a team that beat you in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament is "weak" is just sour grapes. I was at that game, and ND just outplayed Illinois...plain and simple. Plus our talent that year was pretty damn deep (Chris Thomas, Matt Carroll, Danny Miller, Torin Francis = all quality players). Either way, you can't really call a major conference team in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament "very weak".