qwerty

I believe i have already said we have the two best relievers between the two teams. But overall we do not. Not saying shingo will suck next year but he will stuggle a little more than last. You are wrong. His two year splits since he did not pitch last year SS vs RH: 237 AB, .266BA, .390OBP, .389SLG. SS vs LH: 199 AB, .171 BA, .268OBP, .271SLG. MM vs RH: 139AB, .201BA, .263OBP, .266 SLG. MM VS LH: 55 ab, .255BA, .431OBP, .418 SLG. Do you want me to compare the rest of their numbers to adkins/ cotts/ hermanson? It will not be pretty.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 06:09 PM) Heart attack or not, if they get the job done that's all that matters. Shingo, Marte, & Hermanson are that much better the tribe's top 3 guys. That gives the SOX the edge. Vizcaino is strong vs LHers & Cotts is surprisingly strong vs RHers. Politte should be fine pitching the 7th most of the time. If you look at hit from a LH vs RH pov the Sox got the bases covered: ST vs RH: 113AB, .150BA .226O .186S - best in the majors for a closer ST vs LH: 107AB, .215BA .294O .402S - one of the best in the majors Wickman is not in the same league as Shingo. I would take Shingo over Nathan. DM vs RH: 160AB, .263BA, .341O, .444S - fair - not bad, not good - ok DM vs LH: 098AB, .143BA .259O .214S - best in the majors for a setup guy Cleveland has no one to compare with Marte. LV vs RH: 138AB, .290BA, 333O, 522S - bad LV vs LH: 129AB, .163BA, 245O, 341S - one of the best in the majors Cleveland has no one to compare with Vizcaino. DH vs RH: 265AB, .242BA .294O .358S - good but not great DH vs LH: 239AB, .285BA, .354O .498S - bad About as good as Wickman CP vs RH: 125AB, .208BA, .273O, .312S - one of the best CP vs LH: 74AB, .351BA, .442O, .595S - bad I challenge CLE or MIN to produce a guy stronger vs RH in the 5th pen spot. NC vs RH: 143AB, 231BA, 329O, 399S - good NC vs LH: 104AB, 269BA, 342O, 519S - bad Summing it up: Best closer in ALC: Shingo Takatsu Among the best vs RH: Politte, Shingo Among the best vs LH: Marte, Vizcaino, Shingo Good vs RH: Hermanson, Cotts Cleveland is a far cry from that. Throw all the stats at me you want. Save this thread. Indians will have a better bullpen era at the end of the year.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 06:03 PM) Rhodes is f***ing horrible. Wickman is old, and is returning from an injury. Howry was impressive after returning from an injury. Riske isn't bad but can be extremley inconsistent leading to some of the most atrocious outings since Mitch Williams. Bettancourt isn't that bad, but he's considered to be one of their best relievers. Miller is pretty good, and I wouldn't mind having him on our team. I don't see anything that special about their bullpen. Wickman is old but still effective. Sauerbeck is insane against lefties not so much against righties but that is not what he is there for. If shuey can get back to his old form he will be excellent for a minor league contract. They even have tadano as a back-up incase if anyone gets injured or implodes. As long as rhodes does not have a totally s***ty year like 99 or 2004 when he was injured he will help them. You don't think they are deeper than us? We may have two of the best relievers compared to them. But overall imo they will have a better bullpen era at the end of the year.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 05:54 PM) Vizcaino? Their bullpen sucks, plain and simple. Indians bullpen? No it doesn't. They did have a rough first half but they were very good in the second half. half. If we also went by career era their bullpen would definitely be better.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 05:45 PM) FWIW...I do believe the Sox will carry 12 pitchers to atleast start the year, and it could remain that way all year. I also don't think Cotts makes the team out of ST. I think he will pitch in AAA this year to stretch out his arm, and I think they intend on having him start in 06. You expect them to move one of the starters in the off-season?

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 05:39 PM) I could be wrong, but unless we keep twelve pitchers, I don't see Adkins making the team... Closer-Shingo LH Setup- Marte RH Setup- Vizcaino, Hermanson Middle Relief- Cotts, Politte Qwerty, no faith in Vizcaino? I like vizcaino more than cotts that is for sure. He should be our left handed specialist with cotts going down to triple a and work on some stuff. I say that because i think he has a much brighter future than adkins ever will. When i look at the indians i i would have faith with everyone in their pen. The same cannot be said for adkins. politte, and cotts imo. I also don't really no what to expect from hermanson with his transition to the american league. I think he will be like politte last year. Goes nine innings in a row without giving up a run the give up four in 1/3 of an inning.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 04:43 PM) Your pen is not good enough. Wickm .261BAv 1.42WHIP 3.70era Riske .240BAv 1.42WHIP 3.72era Benta .268 1.34 3.92 Miller .216 1.17 3.09 Barto .275 1.71 4.66 Howry .228 1.15 2.74 Sauer .240 1.52 3.71 I would say the tribe's chances of being #1 are equal to that of the Twins losing 2 of their 4 J's (J Nathan, J Rincon, J Romero, & J Crain). Bartosh will not even make their pen next year because it is so deep with very solid relievers. They also have shuey. No way our bullpen is better. We have marte, shingo, and maybe hermanson who we can rely on. They have several guys who can go out there and you don't have a heart attack with.

Cotts needs triple a.

QUOTE(Carlo Paz @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 03:37 AM) Hermanson’s earned run average was 4.53? In the National league? I'm excited about the team this year, but it has very little to do with this guy. Hopefully Ozzie uses him in blowouts. By the way, ESPN says that Koch finished the year with a 4.41 ERA and numbers almost identical to Polittes'. (Can that be true!? He must have been decent for FLA.) Hermanson was very solid in the bullpen unil the last day of the yea when he asploded. Also, koch still sucks. 1.60 Whip. Wtf, that is just disgusting.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 03:21 AM) With the Dback series of moves, I would say that Wilson is prolly the one that actually ends up there.... I don't know the salaries off-hand, but I would say that he's the highest of the bunch. And that's what AZ seems to value above all else right now. Wilson is twelve, cameron six million, and payton is 3.5 million.

QUOTE(sox-r-us @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 01:57 AM) CLEVELAND SUCKS CLEVELAND SUCKS CLEVELAND SUCKS CLEVELAND SUCKS They are doing good in the poll though.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 01:26 AM) I wouldn't but hey that's just me. Wickman, Howry and Shuey are still very risk propositions for 2005. They've all had major arm surgery, and they probably wouldn't be able to throw a lot of innings. I'm going to say, I think 1 guy maybe 2, will be mildly effective out of that 3, most likely Wickman. Rhodes is the wild card for me. If he can get back to his Baltimore and Seattle form, he'll improve the Tribe so much keeping leads in the 7th and 8th innings. I'm interested to see how he handles going from a pitcher's park in Oakland where he struggled (albeit mainly as a closer) to a hitter's park in Cleveland. I think our pen is more reliable in that you are more likely to know what to expect from each guy, and where they fit in and what they're good in doing. e.g Politte in the 6th and 7th, Marte in the 8th, Shingo only being used for 1 inning in the 9th. Betancourt, riske, and miller are no slouches.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 01:21 AM) And realistically the chances of Juan Gone staying healthy and contributing for a whole season, well they're just not that good, I think that's all most people are trying to say. Who knows, maybe Jody Gerut will rebound for them, they certainly have an abundance of corner OF's. Evene if he is healthy for half a season he will earn his pay check.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 12:42 AM) Also...FWIW...I don't like the Juan-Gone signing. Why didn't they just hang onto Escobar or get someone else young who could have a chance instead of going for a guy whose best years are in the rear view mirror? Why not? The most he can make next year is $2.55 million. Not bad for someone that can potentially be one of the best hitters in the league for pretty long periods of time for way less money than burnitz is gonna get. His ops and slugging is always very solid which is what you are looking for from him. If he stays healthy he will be an excellent pick-up. If he doesn't stay healthy he will not be costing them much at all either way. This is the definition of a low risk high reward type signing.

Am i honestly the only one that would take a combination of wickman, howry, riske, bentancourt, miller, rhodes, shuey, sauerbeck over our pen?

Seven million dollar option? Ya, they are gonna decline that.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Feb 2, 2005 -> 12:19 AM) Just wait until Bracey Wright goes from a 2.0 star rating to 4.5 over night around B10 tourney time Sounds like something else. Anyway, the draft in the sim league was today. Your first pick was a 5.0 closer.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Feb 1, 2005 -> 11:00 PM) Two balls could definitely be in the net at the same time, which I see happen at the gym at least once a month. Maybe that is what you're thinking of? Their middles just cannot travel through the rim at the exact same moment. That is most likely what i am thinking of. I see that alot since i play basketball daily. Either way she could fit in the rim fake or not.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Feb 1, 2005 -> 10:47 PM) I read that the diameter of a correctly inflated basketball is 9.5". If that is indeed true, it would squash the two basketballs at one time theory. You are correct but i know i have seen it done before with regulation sized basketballs unless my eyes decieved me. http://experts.about.com/q/2551/1184149.htm

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Feb 1, 2005 -> 03:54 PM) No hoop I ever played on was that wide. I remeber our coach would use this ring which sat on the inside of the rim which made it even smaller, but now way would 2 balls get through. If that's regulation size, than guys should be shooting like 80% from the field. I didn't read the rest of the thread yet but it is fact that two regulation basketballs can fit side by side in a rim. I will look for an actual article on it but on here it is seventh from the bottom on the person's list. http://www.snopes.com/message/ultimatebb.p...000418/p/1.html

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Feb 1, 2005 -> 09:56 PM) He is actually dribbling. He is just too fast for you to notice.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Feb 1, 2005 -> 09:02 PM) That's right Rowand, first step if admitting. Has he_gawn admitted it yet?

Here is is a list someone put together of the top 100 prospects. I think it is a pretty good list. If i remember correctly we have 3-5 players ont he list. http://www.theminorsfirst.com/tmf100/tmf100(2005).html#20 Here you can see how he rated them the last four years. Pretty good job i wouldd say. http://www.theminorsfirst.com/tmf100/tmf100(archives).html