joeynach

I dont think you will see Vicedo anywhere near the 2010 roster. If they didnt call him up this Sept that tells u right there he is down on the depth chart. Plus you highlighted the need for speed, defense, and the ability to manufacture runs. None of this are Viciedo's game. He wont be the missing link next year at all. He will need more time to develop his defense and work on his hitting for average in the minors.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 2, 2009 -> 03:56 PM) We were in contention, and in my opinion, arguably placed with the most talent to win this division as late as 4 weeks ago. Then the middle of our lineup decided to stop hitting and our bullpen decided to stop getting outs. There was little or nothing to be done at that point. I'm not sure what you expected to be done. If the players just completely drop off a cliff, after the trade deadline, what is the GM supposed to do? Read the silver lining!!! Build a team around proven high performing guys who do it year in and year out, without the tendency to go into dismal prolonged slumps, or wear down in the 2nd half. Do it with guys u aren't just rolling the dice and hoping and praying they work out with. Do it without obvious holes, without glaring weaknesses, without guys that u cant stand to see come into the game.

FYI i found on mlb trade rumors that the sox are sending about 1.4M of the 2.4M left owed to Thome this year. So we save a million bucks.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 2, 2009 -> 03:11 PM) What did he say that was disingenuous? The club was in a position where they might have needed another year and they might have been able to contend because our division sucks. He took a few months to evaluate that. Then he went out and got Peavy and Rios. Granted, it hasn't worked out as planned. But that's because of guys like Jermaine Dye and Paul Konerko and Jim Thome and Alex Rios and Alexei Ramirez not stepping up and doing their jobs. Kenny cannot bat for them. Sometimes, it just comes down to the players. The players let us down. Not our GM. I think the main issue was Kenny spinning the ole company line for the last few years. Despite the rather incomplete parts at 2B, 3B, and CF...the sox still had big proven producers in Dye/Thome/Konerko/AJ. Which allowed KW to have a certain amount of faith and trust in being a contender, albeit its obvious to us all now that our aging, run producing, lift and pull, baseclogging core, should and does provide no resemblance of a "real" contender.

Its absolutely no secret the list of names you described were flat out scrubs, just sup par MLB talent....castaways. Of course you dont win anything with those types of players, they belong on the rosters of teams like Pitt, Fla, Was, and Balt. The difference is while we, ozzie, Kenny, and even your grandmother knows it, the only person will to feed us the company "we are confident line" is Kenny, and the only person willing to publicly be like "this is garbage and we all know it" is Ozzie.

Its not the sox weren't trying to trade em all. Its just that Contreras and Thome drew attention for whatever reason.

QUOTE (SockMe @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 11:08 PM) Last week someone posted a Predict the Roadtrip thread and I said 1-9, more as a joke but at the time I knew we sucked, and now that prediction is sadly unfolding before are eyes, what is that 3 walk offs now? 1 in each series? Thats pathetic, weak ass pen, weak ass lineup. When you saw Tony Pena come in during the 9th inning to replace Thornton what did you think was going to happen. He was going to be awesome and shut em down. Another poster actually said it probably about a week ago, Pena has good stuff, but hes bad. The reason being he has no real command or control of the natural RUN on his pitches and it gets him in trouble. Is there any person on the planet that thought swapping Pena for Thornton in the 9th was going to result in something good??

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 05:15 AM) Slayer's BA is dropping. Does this count as his first slump or second one? Since August 16th Beckham has been seriously atrocious at the plate. His is slumping Jermaine Dye style. Bechkam has 7 hits in his last 55 at bats for a stout .127 BA. The only difference is I think we are all a bit more willing to go through some slumps and growing pains with him as a young talented player. With the aging sluggers almost standard 2nd half fall off at this point (Dye, Thome, Konerko) it reflects more a motive to move these guys from the roster. With Beckham we just have to stick it out, plus hes not one of the main run producers anyway.

I really like some of your ideas. I do totally believe in this old aging core is done. Though that been said this team, like any will still need some Power and still need some recognizable names for the fan base and community. I really like the idea of signing Justin Ducsherer, not sure as a new potential closer or just another bullpen or starter yet. Im not quite sure you trade Bobby, I can see a case for both. I reliable closer is a scarcity, thats just one position I dont want a question mark at at all. I also like the idea of Trading Paulie for Sanchez, or another pitcher if need be. Id love to get Hunter Pence anyway possible. The Branyan acquistion I say meh, there is gotta be something more reliable out there. He is the epidimy of the hot and cold, streaky, all or nothing hitter. Not sure about dumping AJ either. Like I said even durning rebuilding you need some Identifiable names, you need someone recognizable for people to want to see. And in reality isn't Flowers pretty lousy defensively, we have seen how an average AJ behind the plate effects things. Do we really want to experiment with a non defensive catcher next year, shouldnt he refine his defense at AAA for a while then come up, just seems like behind the plate D is not something you want to sacrifice or downgrade. In general I like the direction.

QUOTE (dmbjeff @ Sep 1, 2009 -> 05:21 AM) 2005 was a horrible 2nd Half as well. We almost lost that division that season and finally heated back up the final week and then into October. It makes me wonder if it is an organizational thing or just something that happens when you play 162 games with veterans?? I think alot of it goes back to the style of baseball the White Sox play, which is play for the 3 run HR. When you have guys just trying to pull and lift, if it isn't working, then we have nothing else. It is the organizational theory of having a DH in the mold of Baines/Thomas/Thome who can't play a position and not giving other guys a break in the field with a DH day. I think Kenny and Ozzie have finally seen enough of this style. We certainly need power to win but we need to have a more balanced team to play through these power outages. I think we are moving in the right direction with Rios,Beckham and Alexei as guys who are more well rounded ball players. With the SP rotation we have lined up for the next few years, we need a lineup that can manufacture runs, hit and run, go 1st to 3rd. I agree with everything you said. I even remember I think before the 06 season Kenny say something like we will be fine we have Thome/Konerko/Dye. Thats exactly the point enough of that. No more reliance on agining sluggers, though Konerko at least has become an important part defensively with his ability to pick those balls out of the dirt. I think Kenny finally gets it, the core needs to be turned over...NOW! When it comes to Dye and Konerko for next year, I would say you keep 1 of the two. And make the sure just like you said that DH can also play the field, give the ability for everyone to to rotate out and rest and keep fresh.

They were all available and hopefully all still are. Dye, Thome, Konerko, Pods, Dotel, Linebrink, Contreras....they all basically need to be traded now while we can get something in return. The aging, old slow, wear down in the 2nd half types need to be removed from this roster. You will never win a pennant race like that ever, and Kenny finally gets it. No more relying on Thome/Konerko/Dye to get us there.

From MLBTraderumors.com "ESPN's Buster Olney reports that the White Sox have "distributed a memo to a number of teams in the league informing them that a number of Chicago veterans are available in trade." Jim Thome, Jermaine Dye, and Scott Linebrink were among the players listed in memo." Later it says Paul Konerko, Octavio Dotel, and Scotty Pods were all added to the list. I did a little research on the second half performance of some of our aging core, two of whom have already been traded. My theory being that poor second half performance, due the fact that most older players tend to wear down in the 2nd halfs as they age, is behind Kenny's recent "unloading". This isn't the first time this has surfaced, I remember hearing the "reliance on older players for production leads to 2nd half collapes" in 2003, 2004, 2006, and now 2009. I do believe Kenny finally has had it with the obvious decline in performance of his core over post all star breaks. With Contreras and Thome now gone, it will be no surprise to me if either Dye or Konerko, or both, is traded as well. Just look at the stats that are highlighted in red. They show for the most part the declining production of our core Post All Star Break as they age. Jose Contreras Post All Star Break 2005-2009 2005: 11-2, 2.96 ERA, 1.14 WHIP 2006: 4-9, 5.40 ERA, 1.62 WHIP 2007: 5-7, 6.01 ERA, 1.62 WHIP 2008: N/A 2009: 1-6, 6.96 ERA, 1.79 WHIP Jim Thome Post All Star Break 2005: N/A 2006: .274/.420/.522, 12HR, 32 RBI 2007: .273/.389/.579, 21 HR, 52 RBI 2008: .235/.346/.493, 16 HR, 39 RBI 2009: .240/.317/.496, 9 HR 24 RBI Jermaine Dye Post All Star Break 2005: .279/.336/.494, 12 HR, 41 RBI 2006: .313/.371/.595, 19 HR, 52 RBI 2007: .298/.368/.579, 16 HR, 39 RBI 2008: .276/.326/.515, 13 HR, 41RBI 2009: .181/.276/.299, 5 HR, 17 RBI Paul Konerko Post All Star Break 2005: .323/.405/.598, 20 HR, 45 RBI 2006: .313/.377/.541, 14 HR, 46 RBI 2007: .254/.340/.476, 13 HR, 42 RBI 2008: .270/.334/.575, 13 HR, 28 RBI 2009: .225/.339/.440, 7 HR, 16 RBI

Is it just me or do the sox all of a sudden look like David in the David vs. Goliath battle. We look like some epic underdog that just cant really do anything right and are trotting out supreme less talent. I mean not only does it look the sox cant get out of their own way at any given point, but this recent east coast road trip has just really shown how much less quality of players we really have. Not like its surprising that when you trot out guys named Garcia, Contreras, Linebrink, Randy Williams, etc you get your butts kicked, but this is getting ridiculous. Though some of me is really glad its happening right now after hearing KW saying how underachieving this team is. Its becoming more apparent that they are not that underachieving, they are just not that good of a squad. Their are way too many scrubs on this roster, period. The good news is its not masked under the crappy AL Central anymore, its out there for all to see. And now Kenny & Co. see just how much needs to be changed and improved next year to have a chance. No more aging pitchers whose Velocity is way down, no more Pitchers who cant field their position, no more talentless No Names in the bullpen, possibly no more Alexi at short, the possibility of not bringing back both Dye and Thome, looking for more hit for avg, less power, less slump prone like players. Its all out there for us and the mgmt to see. I actually think this recent east coast butt kicking might be good for the sox, it could just simply force some "Good for the sox" changes.

This game is awful to watch. Prediction Yankees get about 6 runs on 13 hits. Sox no runs on 2 hits. LAME

I see Buehrle is up to his ole tricks again...85 MPH fastballs up in the zone. No doubt the yanks should put up another 12 hits in 5 innings like they did last time. Something needs to be done. Buehrle can be so good when he locating well and mixing in his change. Problem is he hasn't done that in over a month and he doesnt really have much room for error. His fastballs just seem to be hanging belt high or above for more than just a few starts now.

Has anyone else noticed Dye isn't the only one slumping at the moment. Though he still a stud rookie and we are going to go through some growing pains, Beckham is hitting just .157 in his last 38 at bats (6 for 38). It just sucks when you have starters who you kinda of rely on for a lot of production and they go into these dreadful slumps...at the same damn time.

I hope this is a super joke..we dont need Fields to come up at hit .150 with 2K's per game. We actually already have that, Beckham is hitting a stout .157 in the last few weeks, hes 6 for his last 38. But her gets more slack than Fields for sure.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 04:41 PM) the problem is he doesn't have good command of the "run" on the pitches. This issue seems to be same with Linebrink. You cant really afford to have two guys in the pen with no command of the "run on their" pitches. Its like pathetic.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Aug 26, 2009 -> 05:03 PM) Anytime Dye wants to start improving these post ASB numbers let us know. .184 BA .292 OBP .288 SLG .580 OPS 4 homers His numbers are so off he must be hurt. His first half numbers .302 BA .375 OBP .567 SLG .942 OPS 20 homers I agree Dye has been sinking our offense for a while now. This isn't just a slump this thing is almost the whole 2nd half of the year now. This has kind of always been the knock on the sox offensive production. That due to the age of most of the sluggers and run producers they tend to wear down a bit in the 2nd half and drop off. I bet that has a lot to do with the Rios acquisition. You think that if Dye is hitting like .300/.375/.520 with like 30 Hr's right now KW gets Rios...I dont think so.

Has anyone else noticed that Tony Pena has terrible stuff. After watching him pitch for over a month now I believe his pitches can best be described as floating 90-92 mph fastballs. Is it not obvious that all his pitches tend to naturally HANG, especially over the middle of the plate. He needs to get off this team for good!!

1/2 German Shepard 1/4 black lab 1/4 Jewish

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Aug 24, 2009 -> 11:38 PM) This doesn't make sense. It take Contreras a while to warm up and he's not consistent enough as a strike-thrower. Count should be in Charlotte as extra insurance in case the team plane crashes and everybody dies and we need pitching. Either that or release the guy. Its probably a middle step to him being released

need source or link

Is this a joke.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 17, 2009 -> 05:46 PM) Thome has had this foot problem earlier as well as back spasms. My guess is one or two games max and he is back at DH Ok then over/under number of games until the next minor injury that keeps him out for a series........13.5??