Marty34

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Apr 21, 2014 -> 05:00 PM) FIFY Sale is different because of the incredible value he has due to his contract. Either put four ready-made pitchers around him or deal him.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 21, 2014 -> 04:46 PM) Don Cooper said pitch count guys "are idiots". Cooper is a great self-promoter.

Waiting to develop pitchers to fill out the rotation around Sale is incredibly risky.

I hope you're right about Abreu SS2K.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 20, 2014 -> 10:15 AM) Why would the White Sox sign people to 1 year contracts to build a competitive team? You sign people to limited contracts when you have a team filled with rookies so that you can trade guys and avoid strangling yourself in the future. You turn that around and risk the longer-term deals when you have a team that could be competitive if it filled its last 1-2 holes. The stars have to align perfectly (farm system be producing players) for a team to add the final piece or two via free agency.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Apr 20, 2014 -> 03:45 PM) If you don't spend needless dollars now, this is untrue. Last impact free agent the Sox signed was Albert Belle.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 20, 2014 -> 01:07 PM) You're right, but we need to spend that money on impact players and not marginal free agents. The guys you wanted to add would have made the team better, but not that much better and would have eaten our financial flexibility going forward. Impact free-agents are out of the Sox price range so I don't know what we are saving the financial flexibility for and there's not a lot of help coming from the farm anytime soon.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 20, 2014 -> 10:59 AM) "Not much left" = Ervin Santana Brett Anderson * Josh Beckett Chad Billingsley * A.J. Burnett * Chris Capuano Bruce Chen * Wei-Yin Chen * Kevin Correia Johnny Cueto * Jorge De La Rosa Ryan Dempster Scott Feldman Gavin Floyd Yovani Gallardo * Jason Hammel J.A. Happ * Aaron Harang Dan Haren * Roberto Hernandez Luke Hochevar Hisashi Iwakuma Josh Johnson Kyle Kendrick Hiroki Kuroda John Lannan Colby Lewis Jon Lester Paul Maholm Justin Masterson Brandon McCarthy Brandon Morrow * Jeff Niemann Ross Ohlendorf Felipe Paulino * Jake Peavy Wandy Rodriguez Carlos Villanueva Ryan Vogelsong Edinson Volquez Jerome Williams Multiple guys on that list who could easily fill a back of the rotation slot as reliably as the guys you wanted to spend money on last year. Point them out for me, please.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 20, 2014 -> 10:46 AM) Lester yes because I don't think the Sox will have any need of another LH starter when their 2 best ones are already lefties. The other 2? I don't know, I'd guess because I still think the White Sox have enough pitching on its way that a 9-figure deal for a starter would be counter-productive. But then again, if the catcher's spot winds up being solidified this year and Davidson gets handed 3b at some point and succeeds, and Viciedo keeps hititng like this, their list of actual needs long-term starts shrinking a lot. The Sox will not outbid the Yankees, Red Sox, Rangers, among others for the top of the free agent pitching market. After those guys, not much left. That's why signing a mid-rotation guy this offseason made sense.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 20, 2014 -> 10:40 AM) I don't know what they'll need to do on the rotation yet, Erik Johnson is still a rookie and we don't know what we have in him yet. His velocity dip is troubling even though it's early. We also still have a lot of other guys in AA or higher who we don't know how they'll close their seasons (Rienzo, for example, got off to a poor start in 2013 and really caught fire around the start of June). I'll see what I think of Beck here in a couple weeks. Just for an example, everyone would have replaced Tyler Flowers coming into this season if we were competing and as of now he's been one of our few bright spots. He'll come back down to Earth, but he's suddenly showing promise as a potential major leaguer again. And there's still a good chance that some guys out of Beckham, Flowers, Gillaspie, and De Aza will be moved before the end of the year - that could provide bullpen assistance as well. Are you ruling out guys like Scherzer, Lester, and Shields?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 20, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) The Cubs risked $6 million with Feldman. They wound up paying him $3 million and turned him into Arrieta and Strop. If that is upside, I think the Sox wojld be better using the $6 million on international free agents and the penalty for going over their allocation. The Sox were going to trade Paulino for someone better than Paulino at the deadline, thing is as you point out, someone better than Paulino still wouldn't be worth the signing.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 20, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) We will see what their needs shape up to be at the end of the season. It certainly looks like a portion of that extra $12 million will have to go to finding a reliever or two. Any names? Traditionally, the Sox go cheap on their pens. I doubt they will spend money on that until the rotation is addressed.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 20, 2014 -> 10:31 AM) It wouldn't because they wouldn't be in either case, they'd have the #29 ERA in MLB in either case. But having $24 million to spend next year instead of $12 million will absolutely be helpful. $24M to spend on who?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 20, 2014 -> 10:24 AM) No it was not and it continues to not be one. The only way it's an awful decision is if you think that he's preventing the white sox from competing this year. Here's a remarkable one for you. The White Sox have the #29 pitching staff in the league right now. If they had replaced Felipe Paulino with Ubaldo Jiminez, at a cost of nearly $50 million like you desperately wanted...their pitching staff would be...#29 in MLB. I'll take my chances with Jimenez. How would paying Jimenez prevent the Sox from contending this year?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 20, 2014 -> 10:22 AM) Actually that happens in MLB all of the time. The Scott Feldmans and Esteban Loiaza's of the world get picked up off of the heap in an effort to find value. Feldman and Loaza were better pitchers than Paulino.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 20, 2014 -> 10:16 AM) I bet Astros fans aren't whining nearly as much as you about the fact that they have a hole at the back of their rotation. I'll give you a tip of the cap for keeping the faith. I do not give one damn about what Astros fans think. This is not some $500 fantasy league where picking Paulino in the 30th round might be considered "a good risk." It was an awful decision from the start.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 20, 2014 -> 09:54 AM) Of course, Marty also checked to make sure that during their recent struggles they were continuing to hit well on offense and not putting up a sub-.600 team OPS over the last week. Because if they had put up a sub-.600 OPS over the last week and Marty was complaining about them being unwatchable because of the starting rotation, why he'd just look like a fool. I bet Hahn isn't defending Paulino as much as you Balta. Gotta tip my hat to you.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 20, 2014 -> 10:03 AM) We're not. We're against spending it at a stupid time. 1-year contracts must be the new market inefficiency the Sox will exploit when the time to spend isn't stupid.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 19, 2014 -> 04:09 PM) You must be tickled the Sox didn't sign Tanaka. They apparently wouldn't have been able to add to the team for years. It's the middle of April and the Sox are unwatchable in large part because of the the crater-sized hole in the rotation that a lot of posters new existed even after the Paulino signing. Payroll flexibility ain't gonna fill the seats.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Apr 19, 2014 -> 09:16 PM) Abreu is relatively young, costs no talent, is controlled for the long term, and has sky high upside by all accounts. You are not paying a premium for past performance (see: non-Latin American free agents). He would be considered part of the core, not a peripheral/secondary piece. Same goes for Tanaka, within reason. The Yankees, of course, are rarely reasonable. This criterea for spending money is too narrow when you have a farm system as empty as the Sox have. They're going to lose whatever advantage the Abreu and Sale contracts give them if they wait for this system to fill a hole or two before spending money. Why are posters so against spending money?

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Apr 19, 2014 -> 08:39 PM) Balta has answered your question. There is need, satisfying the need will not tip us into competition until our core is somewhat bigger. Also, we have discussed draft picks to the point where I am considering seppuku rather than finishing this sentence. Oh. Sentence finished anyway. I guess I'm satisfied with my decision. Opinion on the Abreu signing as it relates to not being the right time for significant cash outlay?

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Apr 19, 2014 -> 06:06 PM) I mean, does anyone think it's a PROBLEM that the Sox took a shot in the dark that failed? I sure don't. This is the time for it. Not worth taking any significant monetary risks at this point, thus your only smart option is to make moves like this. You should EXPECT, more than likely, that they'll fail. It should not come as a shock, nor should it draw any ire, when a gamble doesn't pay off. It was still a smart move. What is significant monetary risk and why is this not the time when there is very definitely the need?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Apr 19, 2014 -> 11:43 AM) I'm with you on this one. He doesn't flex his trunk similar to Peavy. However his hand does end up by his hip instead of higher up like Peavy. I wouldn't discount him but it is a little of a concern. I was trying to think of a guy who threw like that, Peavy's a good catch. Left-handers, can't think of one.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Apr 19, 2014 -> 11:47 AM) I disagree. I don't think very many teams have two guys with decent MLB experience waiting. Skurkamp was released, has a 7.36 era in 29 mlb innings.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Apr 19, 2014 -> 11:39 AM) They do. One of the starters is on the way out (injury or ineffectiveness) and the Sox have confidence that someone in the minors who had some MLB experience last year will step up. Rienzo is the first call. The second call will be Surkamp. The list of teams that don't have this kind of "depth" is short.