Marty34

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 05:34 PM) If there was a White Sox catch-all thread, I would have put this there, but....I digress... He just made a really interesting point to a caller who said our drafts every year are a bust.... According to Rick, he said from the 2008-2011 drafts, we lead all of baseball in accumulated WAR of those drafted player while we are DEAD LAST in dollars spent on those drafted player from 2008-1011. Interesting. This confirms that WAR is damn near useless.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 12:29 PM) You hope. I'm sure you'll pull out another bootleg stat and predict the Sox to win 90+ games again next February.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 12:18 PM) So basically the deal would be the White Sox paying $60 million for a prospect? I assume that there's a Bryce Harper available? Because otherwise this is the usual inanity you provide. What better way to spend $60M over the next two years. They are not going to win anything in 2014 or 2015.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 11:50 AM) Hell, even if Upton had put up a normal season for him I'd choose Ellsbury out of those 2 options. Throwing in a prospect and on top of it the fact that Upton's put up an Adam Dunn caliber season? If Upton is worth $30 million+ a good player in addition, then you've sold me on Ellsbury being worth $120 million. Upton was just one example, Balta. Do you think there's a team out there that would give up a prospect of value to take a chance on Pujols at a $60M discount courtesy of the White Sox?

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 11:38 AM) Ya, I still haven't found a deal like that. People brought up the Toronto trades but that was ALL salary and no prospects. Emilio Bonifacio, Jose Reyes, Josh Johnson, Mark Buehrle and John Buck, so that rules out that trade. On a different note, I was checking out the splits, and Gillaspie is actually hitting .282/.334/.432 with 12 HRs and 25 XBHs vs RHP. This surprised me, perhaps the Sox can get by with just picking up a platoon player to bat vs LHP which should be a cheap "fix" for 3B. Same for catcher where Phegs is hitting LHP pretty well (though I'd like to see him take more walks). I wouldn't be against McCann but picking up a platoon partner for Phegs would obviously be cheaper and they could spend the big money else where. Perhaps on Ellsbury. Ellsbury and Abreu are now my pipe dream. I moved on from Abreu/McCann. I think the prices on the free agent market are going to be super inflated this year because of the lack of depth and new tv money. If you need a CF'er would you rather spend $70M+ on Ellsbury or trade a good prospect to get Upton at $30M?

If the farm system is that productive over the last four years why are we the third worst team in MLB this year?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 10:20 AM) If you have no idea wha the expectations are for Abreu, why did you post this: As I've detailed before, there quite possibly is a team out there that would trade for Upton if his price tag were $25-$30M over 4 years. Take the $30M hit on the payroll over the next two years and the prospect. The Braves get rid of the entire contract, the team that traded for Upton gets what it wants, and the Sox basically buy a prospect while keeping their long-term financial flexibility. Better than Abreu for 4-years? I would say yes. And what team is interested in Upton and what type of prospect can you "buy" for $30 million? C'mon Marty, provide specifics or quit trolling. And a team is going to take on $30 million of Uptons contract AND give you a top prospect back? If you are that high, you need rehab. There maybe no team that is interested in Upton ay half price. I don't know. Define top prospect by the way?

What are the expectations for Abreu, I have no idea. Besides that, are 3-5 in the rotation going to get better because they absolutely have to. After all that, the pen is an issue as well.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 12:16 PM) Our Bourne and Swisher can be Abreu + McCann/Granderson/Pence/ That brings you to 70 wins . . .

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 12:07 PM) Certainly not the price of taking on bad contracts for prospects who may or may not turn into anything. You'd rather have Bourne and Swisher?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 12:07 PM) WTF? Yes, you do. That's "exactly" what you do. Especially when you're already sitting on a great pitching staff. I think it was Flavum who wrote - and I agreed 1000% - you build your team with the goal of winning 90+ games. The goal is not to just be in a pennant race.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 12:02 PM) "Pennant race" = low reward in marty's world. You don't build your team with the goal of being in the pennant race which is what I believe the Indians have done.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 12:01 PM) lol huh??? "Thinking fans" don't wanna go from a 94 loss team to a potential wild card team? At what price? This run certainly hasn't re-energized their fan base either.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 11:58 AM) Welp, you asked how a 100 loss team(94 might as well be 100) can contend by signing Free agents and we answered. Whether you like it or not it obviously can be done, and I don't think we need to add as much as they did to get it done due to our pitching. High risk/low reward strategy is not the way to respond to this miserable season.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 11:57 AM) We know you don't want it followed, you want the team to keep losing. I'm a sart fan Balta, you are too even though we have our major disagreements.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 11:47 AM) I believe what kite was saying is every "model" we go after will be "after the fact". Any thinking fan wants to stay as far away from what the Indians have done as possible.

The Indians plan is not the one I want followed, but too each their own.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 11:31 AM) No one has a clue how free agents will perform in the offseason. See Adam Dunn. Few thought the 2005 Sox would place better than 3rd. Absolutely, Dick Allen just likes to cast stones.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 11:24 AM) Just showing you an example of something you said doesn't happen. Dick Allen you are a follower. The Indians are your plan now, I love it.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 11:18 AM) Not a bad idea, but they had a ton of injuries. BJ Upton. Marty is ridiculous. But I won't take the bait and fight you anymore on this. The others all see what you are doing. BTW, you aren't thinking outside the box. You stole this from Dan Bernstein. It's important for you to have safety in numbers, be part of a pack. Sad really. I stole an idea from Dan Bernstein, omg. First prove it, second who gives on damn?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 11:11 AM) See 2012 Cleveland Indians. Now its the Indians rebuild you are trumpeting. Good old after-the-fact Dick Allen strikes again.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 11:10 AM) Marty is just trolling again. Dan Berstein brought up this concept of teams dumping bad contracts and sending along prospects as bait. He was also mentioning salary caps and other things thinking MLB is the NBA. Teams don't give up top prospects unless they are desperate. Teams also get an additional $25 million to play with starting this offseason. There is not one example of a team giving up a top prospect for taking on a bad contract. Then BJ Upton is mentioned. He is owed $60 million the next 4 years. What prospect, even if the Braves were so desperate to get rid of Upton, do they have that is worth that price? It isn't going to happen. The board panned the thought, Marty decided to bring it back for arguments. He is covering his bases though. He did mention a couple of months ago, the "heavy lifting" of a rebuild was done. He also mentioned if a rebuild was done "correctly" it could be accomplished in 2 years. Now he is saying 2016. No matter what happens, he will tell everyone he was the first to tell you what was going to happen. Just read his posts for comedy. Dick Allen I didn't expect any different from you. You have shown zero ability to think outside the box. Keep loving that Blue Jays rebuild fella ROFL.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 10:58 AM) And the Sox have to give something up as well. What are some deals where the team got a good prospect back with a bad contract for a virtual nobody? The Blue Jays trades came up earlier but those aren't good examples because Toronto got back all "bad contracts" and no prospects. The Sox pay $30M for the team that theoretically wants Upton. These deals rarely present themselves because in part there have been few high revenue teams in the last 20 years who have been as bad as the Sox are and who have the kind of financial flexibility the Sox will have.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 10:36 AM) This, to me, doesn't make any sense. Why are they taking on bad contracts for prospects when they can simply sign free agents and save the prospects? Was this sarcasm? miss worded? To your other post about this being the "proper way" to rebuild, was that sarcasm too? I hope I'm just misunderstanding you because I don't see how trading prospects makes sense for a "rebuilding" team. EDIT- after reading the last 2 posts I see whats going on here, nevermind. I agree with CWS, I don't think you're gonna get good enough prospects back in these sorts of trades....Show me some deals that prove otherwise. And at this point the FA market doesn't look half bad. The problem is this team itself. How do you go from losing 100 games to contending buying free agents.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 10:39 AM) So B.J. Upton at $15M/per over the next 4 years plus a B prospect makes us better than Abreu at $12M/per over the next 5 years? As I've detailed before, there quite possibly is a team out there that would trade for Upton if his price tag were $25-$30M over 4 years. Take the $30M hit on the payroll over the next two years and the prospect. The Braves get rid of the entire contract, the team that traded for Upton gets what it wants, and the Sox basically buy a prospect while keeping their long-term financial flexibility. Better than Abreu for 4-years? I would say yes.