Marty34

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 08:51 PM) The Braves. There was a team that agreed to pay Adam Dunn $56 million for his production through 2010 too. In baseball, due to each player being their own monopoly, they have the ability to sell themselves to the highest bidder. Upton was worth $75 million to someone, Dunn was worth $56 million to someone. Given the numbers they put up in their first years with their teams, they'd get contracts of maybe $1-2 million with incentives. They aren't going to get $30 million and no one will pay $30 million for Upton right now. The price of a WAR is what $6-$7M ? Upton was roughly a 2 war player with Tampa. $30M is a bargain.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 08:48 PM) BECAUSE IT HELPS IN 2016 what the f*** What does it buy you in 2016? I'd rather have a spot or two filled on the roster with a player in their mid-twenties with that money by the time we get to 2016.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 08:44 PM) No, this is wrong. They'd rather sign a minor league free agent who put up a .700 OPS and can run than spend $30 million on a guy who was absolutely putrid all around last year in hopes that he can discover the form he showed 6 years ago for 1 season. Well a team did agree to pay him $75M based on his production through 2012.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 08:34 PM) This has to be the dumbest thing I've ever read in my life. Spending $30M to acquire anything less than an elite prospext is buttf***ing stupid because 1) 99.5% prospects are far from guarantees & 2) even if that prospect makes it the pros you'll still have to pay him a f***ton of money if he's worth a damn on top of the $30M you spent to get him. So the best case scenario is you paid $30M for a guys' pre-arb years and basically lost all the surplus value a prospect normally provides if they're successful. More likely you threw away $30M on a prospect who doesn't pan out. Either way, nothing is gained by making such a move. Just all-around a completely stupid idea and if you're going to throw significant money away on a B prospect then you might as well go full rebuild and spend like Astros have recently while saving your money for a time when you're actually trying to be competitive. What are the Sox going to do with that $30M over the next 2 years? Save it, maybe, but that doesn't help anything in 2014 & 2015.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 08:30 PM) It is not only $30 million, its also a prospect worthwhile of the Sox' $30 million. I thought that was assumed as that's he only way the Sox pick up $30M. Anyway, given the price tag on Pence, I think teams might prefer to acquire a guy who had a bad year if it means they can get him at a severe discount through the Sox.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 07:54 PM) Let alone why would a team give up any reasonable prospect for BJUpton and a $30 million committment? He was Adam Dunn 2011 bad in 2013. I wouldn't trade Dunn for Upton. $15 million vs. $60 million. I could be wrong maybe there would be no market for Upton at $30M. We just don't know.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 07:52 PM) Bad contract (Dunn) for bad contract (Upton) might have been feasible... But how many prospects could you argue were worth $30 million at age 18 or 19? Maybe Harper or Griffey, Jr.? It does not have to be a star prospect for it to work. Using Upton as the example the question should be, is the prospect(s) they were to receive in return for eating half of Upton's contract the best way to spend $30M in payroll over the next 2 seasons to improve the team long-term?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 07:35 PM) Even if there was, which is not likely, there isn't one willing to give up a prospect worth anywhere near the $30 million your proposal has the Sox eating. Back to the drawing board. There's a lot we don't know in order to decide if that is a true statement or not.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 06:43 PM) Again you are making no sense. Why trade a prospect who can easily out perform Upton while making minimum or close for 3 years for a .557 OPS guy and owe him $30 million? And if the prospect isn't someone who can outperform that, why in the world would a team spend $30 million on crap like that? It would make zero sense to the White Sox, and zero sense to a team Upton would be passed along. It would be great for the Braves. Dumb organizations wouldn't even do this. I believe there is at least one team out that would jump at the chance to get Upton at $30M in the belief that he will bounce back to his Tampa performance level.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 06:19 PM) Bernstein's idea works in the NBA because of salary caps and luxury tax, and if you pick high, your draft pick makes an immediate impact., but he got his sports screwed up as he mentioned the Salary cap his first draft of this article. There is no salary cap in baseball. Marty then tried to fix this theory up for baseball and thought the Sox could get a guy like BJ Upton who is owed $60 million the next 4 years and put up a .557 OPS while fanning more frequently per AB than Adam Dunn this year, and who hasn't put up .760 OPS for 5 years, eat $30 million, and have a team give you a worthwhile prospect for BJ Upton and that $30 million. This is beyond flawed. Why would a team commit $30 million for Upton and give up someone who could easily outperform him at a fraction of the cost? And why would the White Sox spend $30 million on a non can't miss stud prospect? The only one that wins is the Braves. But as was pointed out before with Bernstein's plan, the teams dumping these players need the prospects to take that spot. Add in the new TV money, I really don't think there are desperate teams out there. Because they don't want to chance spending $90M on the Hunter Pences of the world?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 05:00 PM) Is this the same Bernstein that published the article about how the Sox should take advantage of the growing trend to be given interesting prospects in return for taking on bad contracts? Because I don't think that Bernstein really follows baseball. He may have sources, but he's shown no indication of understanding what people tell him. The article was that the Sox rebuild might follow a model that has not been seen in MLB before, taking on bad contracts for prospects.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 03:58 PM) I'm still waiting to hear some of his stuff that actually happened. That's not how Bernstein uses the info from his Sox source. He uses it largely for background.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 03:38 PM) That means nothing. That is like saying I heard it on Rush Limbaugh. I know one of Bernstein's ties to the organization and they are rock solid.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 03:04 PM) Nothing about Rick Hahn and Ozzie Guillen seems to be on the same page. Kenny and Ozzie had much more in common philosophically than Ozzie and Rick do. Perhaps, but I have heard otherwise. That and Bernstein continuing to allude to the possibility a return by Guillen.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 01:54 PM) The White Sox organization isn't going back to Guillen again. The one guy who would allow it to happen is 77 years old and making plans for his death. If found it interesting that Bernstein alluded to it again.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 01:51 PM) Bernstein is an idiot who pretends to have sources. Bernstein has pretty good Sox sources.

When talking about the Sveum firing, Dan McNeil asked Dan Bernstein if he would have been upset if the Sox fired Ventura and he said no. Interestingly, Bernstein brought up the hypothetical of replacing Ventura with Guillen again. McNeil said Guillen had burned too many bridges and Bernstein replied paraphrasing that Kenny Williams is largely out of the picture. Anyway, I think someone in the Sox organization has told Bernstein to not be surprised if Guillen returns as manager one day because he continues to talk about it.

The worst is behind us.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 09:14 PM) He's gonna have to develop a 3rd pitch (change-up), as well as improve on throwing his fastball above the letters. I don't think he should be considered part of the rebuild.

QUOTE (Tannerfan @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 08:31 PM) Very strange way to do it with the season over tomorrow. Why not wait until next week? Maybe they want to announce the replacement before tomorrow's game? All I can think of for the odd timing of it.

Thome almost certainly is his replacement which means Konerko probably comes back imo.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 01:13 PM) They will active in the free agent market by all indications. If the Pence contract is any indication of what the market will be like I doubt it and hope not.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 12:50 PM) Also goes to show they just can't give up De Aza for nothing this offseason just cause they didn't like his execution this season. Yes, the addition by subtraction thing is all well and good, but I just can't see the Sox meeting these salary levels in free agency. McCann probably gets $70M+ now.

5y/$90M for Hunter Pence I think is a precursor to how insane the money is going to be for the few worthwhile free-agents on the market. The Sox will be better off stying out of this market.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 28, 2013 -> 10:07 AM) Ramirez, De Aza, Viciedo, Beckham, Rios when he was here, the pitchers, both 1bmen, Flowers (maybe one guy you can actually blame injury), Keppinger. All of them vastly worse in the field than last year. Oh and Gillaspe fell apart in September. De Aza and Viciedo are far from defensive wizards, Beckham is about where he's always been. Flowers is not an everyday catcher and the first basemen are old.