Marty34

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 14, 2013 -> 08:35 PM) They could also add those guys and win up a 95 win team. They could also add less than that and be a 95 win team with te quality in this pitching staff. But if the only thing a person wants to do is complain, that's way too much of a gamble. I could not disagree more. They have no surplus to trade from to upgrade their areas of weakness and there's nothing but stopgaps in the free agency that you'd have to overpay for.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 14, 2013 -> 08:25 PM) You described rebuilding as somehow a lesser gamble. Selling off everything guarantees a loser. Trying to win does not. The only way that statement makes sense is if you think losing is and end to itself, something to be proud of. Otherwise, losing on purpose is an enormous gamble. What constitutes selling everything and what are you trying to win? They can keep everyone they have this year add McCann, Utley, and Morales and they still aren't good enough to make the postseason. What you've done though is lock yourself into a ton of guaranteed money.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 14, 2013 -> 08:12 PM) Yeah. If they were signed, there's a chance they could fail and the team could win fewer than 70 games. Whereas if they sell off everyone they'd be guaranteed to lose more than 70 games. And of course...we need to guarantee more than 92 losses otherwise people couldn't demand a rebuild. What are you getting at?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 14, 2013 -> 07:05 PM) I get that Chase Utley is old, but he's been fantastic so far this year. Would he not be a significant upgrade over Ramirez/Beckham next year? Brian McCann is 29 years old and has been one of the best offensive catchers in baseball outside of last year. Would he not be a huge upgrade over Flowers? Kendry Morales is also 29 years old and is a very solid 1B. Would he not be a big upgrade over Konerko/Dunn? All these guys can help improve our offense. Add two of them, trade a starting pitcher for a young bat, and the offense will be much improved. The money you'd need to spend for those guys would be a bigger gamble than a rebuild.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 14, 2013 -> 06:24 PM) Iva Rodriquez, Maggs, Fielder, Martinez...they aren't a playoff team without shelling out big money for hitters. They wouldn't have been able to get Cabrera without taking Willis. What hitter in the upcoming 2014 free-agent do you build around? Morales or Granderson? At 31 and 33 respectively next year, I don't want them.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 14, 2013 -> 06:12 PM) This team has a chance to survive on the mound next year without Peavy. I can't see how this offense can survive without serious additions. Someone like Gillaspie or Beckham should be the worst hitters on your team if you want to contend. And you can't rebuild the offense through free agency.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 14, 2013 -> 06:02 PM) Granderson would love to play for the Sox. I know one of his best friends. Kendrys Morales would fit into Paulie's spot. There's a couple that probably wouldn't break the bank. No thanks, too old.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 14, 2013 -> 05:58 PM) Looking at the top 20 free agents for this coming season list on mlbtraderumors, and there aren't a lot of answers there to the holes the Sox are likely to have. Cano, Choo and Ellsbury aren't likely options due to the money they'll get from the usual big spenders. As I just mentioned, one of the main reasons to use someone like Peavy as a trade chip is to get back prospects that you could potentially then use to acquire everyday MLB offensive players. Exactly, peavy has to go whether your plan is to compete next year or rebuild.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 14, 2013 -> 05:45 PM) Remember the website you're talking to though. A substantial number of people here seem to think that the White Sox should be following the 2011 Marlins model for what to do with their players. you must be in the Dick Allen 2013 Jays camp. That's worked out splendidly.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 14, 2013 -> 05:43 PM) And why can't we improve the offense in the offseason? If you head into next offseason with Sale, Peavy, Danks, Quintana, & Santiago under contract, not only do you have a starting pitcher available to trade for a bat, but you also have $35+ million coming off the books to work with. So unlike this past year, Hahn will actually have the resources necessary to improve the offense. Why don't we see what Hahn is actually capable of in his 2nd year as GM before writing off the team. Who do you improve the offense with on the list of free agents for next year? Sign as many free agents as they can, but no one for more than 2 years as that list is a bunch of old guys.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 14, 2013 -> 03:18 PM) MARTY HAS SPOKEN. OBEY. Why dance around it, this is a bottom 10 team in mlb. They are 23-13 in the Hawk Harrelson Baseball League though.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 14, 2013 -> 08:48 AM) I'm fine with taking offers for Peavy & Rios if we're out of the race come the trade deadline, but IMO you have to be blown away to move either of them. I'm talking about receiving at least one high-end, close-to-ready minor leaguer for either of them. Both guys are under contract for another season at cheap salaries plus they each have an option year. Short of injury, they'll still be extremely valuable next trade deadline. You don't move guys like them simply to move them. You only move them if you feel like the deal(s) has a very good chance of making you better in the near future. If all you can get is a couple of low A prospects, then you should hold on to them. They aren't going to go to the postseason next year and Peavy and Rios trade value is more likely to decline next year.

When Danks returns I'd put Santiago back in the pen until they trade Peavy at the deadline. Ease his transition to starter and Danks return to the rotation by having Santiago there to back him up.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2013 -> 08:00 PM) So the next time you advocate trading sale, we can ask when the angels decided to give up Trout, and listen to te crickets. Never advocated trading Sale.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2013 -> 07:14 PM) You are right as always Marty. The way to make the Sox better is to put Ramirez on waivers. LMAO. If they hit, which they might even do this year, they are a good team. LOL! Thanks for the insight!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2013 -> 06:51 PM) LOL. Your way is the Pirates, Royals, jays prior to this year, Astros, Rays and Cubs model. Horrible teams for years and years. You would be in your glory moaning about them. One guy they could get for nothing is your boy, Josh Hamilton. LOL! You have a plan - sign good free agents. Who are these good free agents?

QUOTE (fathom @ May 13, 2013 -> 06:51 PM) I'll be honest, I don't even know what the argument is anymore. No one truly thinks the Sox are going to be trading Sale or Santiago. Outside of that, everyone will be on the market I'd assume and no one seems too against that. That doesn't mean all 23 players on the active roster will get traded. As long as you have the likes of Sale/Santiago in your rotation, it's hard to picture a situation where a full rebuild in the mode of the Marlins takes place. That doesn't mean that you spend a fortune this offseason to try to path every hole the big league roster has. Right. Dealing guys like Peavy, Rios, and Ramirez does not constitute an Astros-like rebuild.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2013 -> 06:37 PM) If you are willing to take on some money, you can get some guys for just about nothing every year. LOL! You mean like the Jays did? Sure model your team after the Jays Dick Allen. That makes a lot of sense. BTW, who are these big contracts that teams will want to get rid of?

QUOTE (fathom @ May 13, 2013 -> 06:36 PM) Good luck signing high priced free agents with the Dodgers, Cubs and other big market teams lurking. If healthy, someone like Chase Utley (mentioned on this board quite often) seems like a perfect fit for the Dodgers (born in California, college at UCLA). I don't think Chase Utley make them a playoff team next year. 3 years for a 36 year-old middle infielder would trouble me.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2013 -> 06:30 PM) I alrady pointed it out. The pitching is fine. There will be plenty of money to use to acquire hitters through trades and free agency. LOL! What free agents? Who do the Sox trade that doesn't send this thing into a rebuild?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2013 -> 06:19 PM) Can you point out some examples of total teardowns that led to "sustained success" 2 or 3 years later. What's a better alternative?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 13, 2013 -> 06:08 PM) Listen Marty, I respect your baseball knowledge, but I've got to completely disagree here. Sale is a legit #1 starter with Cy Young caliber stuff. If your goal is to win a World Series at any point in the future, you build around an ace. There is no other position on a 25 man roster harder to fill and it's by far the most valuable position in the postseason. I get the "no player is untradable" perspective, but unless someone is going to give you a pitching prospect with a 75% chance or better of becoming an ace, then you really can't afford to move Sale. And if some team was willing to make such a move, a red flag would immedietely go off in my mind that I'm getting damaged goods. Teams just don't trade pitching prospects with #1 stuff anymore. You would not trade Sale for Trout or Harper?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2013 -> 05:55 PM) And since this type of deal will not happen, we need to get the guy who keeps saying "Tear it down and build for 2017" to stop saying so. So not every trade for Sale makes them a worse team.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2013 -> 04:17 PM) Sale for Trout? Sox would, Angels would not.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2013 -> 03:19 PM) The difference is...there have been plenty of times that Viciedo simply would not let a pitcher walk him. Being willing to let a pitcher walk him would be an improvement. Absolutely. This is the biggest step forward I've seen in his development thus far and real cause for optimism.