fathom

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 05:56 PM) I tend to find that the norm in professional sports. Money guys tend to play more. I usually stay away from most reality shows because they are staged and it was obvious watching this clip. Much of the pace an understanding of the conversations is lost when they bleep out Ozzie's profanity. Less profanity. The Franchise might be the least staged reality show out there

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 06:58 PM) You'd get far more in return for Sale than Felix with all that money owed. I couldn't disagree more. It's not like Felix is signed to a bad contract, and with Sale's stamina/injury/longevity concerns, I'd be stunned if Felix didn't have significantly more trade value.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 06:55 PM) Remember we're saving them 45+ million dollars too. And so would any of the other teams that could offer them significantly better prospects/young MLB talent than what the Sox could. Just like with the Greinke deal I commented on earlier, could you imagine what the reaction on here would be if KW traded the best pitcher in baseball for two guys that were minor league free agents, a 2nd baseman that's been a bust and a non-top 100 outfield prospect?

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 06:54 PM) I would gladly include both Viciedo and Quintana, and anything the hell else they want. If the Sox wanted Felix Hernandez, it would probably have to be a deal involving Sale and Viciedo.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 05:42 PM) Can't give up both Quintana and Viciedo. Quintana, ADA, Beckham, Mitchell. Go. For Felix? Not a chance in hell would Seattle do that.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 05:04 PM) I don't think so. Borjos and Conger, which it isn't clear whether the Angels have offered all of that or not, is not enough to land Greinke or Dempster. The Rays don't have to trade Shields though, however, it would appear the Rays would move him for a couple quality MLB pieces vs. your franchises #1 prospect. Didn't Tampa turn down Anaheim's offer though?

QUOTE (Cali @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 05:51 PM) Shields for Flowers + Mitchell/Walker something like that... And Quintana and Reed? Shields will cost more than Greinke or Dempster, etc.

Tampa desperately wants a catching prospect

BTW, Greinke had a 6.48 ERA in 3 postseason starts last year.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 05:00 PM) I guess I just disagree. IMO ZG is worth a gamble on a very good team, in a year where Baseball Is very much wide open for the first time in a while. And it's not like they guy is going to combust, he has proven to be an ace pitcher his whole career. Including a playoff run with the Brewers. He is a competitor and would relish the chance to help a first place team go to the playoffs and maybe win a championship. And by the way make himself a little money in the process. Money I think we would pay of we WIN. He's been an "ace" one year in his entire career. He might be the most overrated pitcher in baseball given his career stats.

Heyman didn't seem to know who the Brewers wanted specifically from the Sox for Greinke. He mentioned names like Quintana, Reed and Santiago. He also mentioned the Brewers don't like our minor leaguers.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 04:52 PM) How happy is anyone going to be if the Sox trade any of the mentioned for Greinke and his issues either cause him to be average or the Sox don't win and he walks? KW has been grilled on this board for giving away crappy minor leaguers for major leaguers. Now many people want him to give up his top young players for a guy who is very talented, but a head case, and for 10 starts. If he doesn't lead to Sox to where they want to go and he skates away, it would be a huge error. And that's why a handful of posters on here hope the Braves go out and land Greinke.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 04:48 PM) This was the trade back then the Brewers had with the Royals: The Royals receive speedy outfielder Lorenzo Cain, young shortstop Alcides Escobar and pitching prospects Jeremy Jeffress and Jake Odirizzi for Greinke and veteran shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt, who presumably will take Escobar's place in the Brewers' infield. Kansas City will also send $2 million in the deal to Milwaukee to cover part of the salary of Betancourt, who is to make $4 million this year and has a $2-million buyout in 2012. IMO not in of the guys they received in return are perennial All-Stars and aren't players you can build a team around. If the Sox trade them Floyd and Beckham the Brewers have a replacement for Betancourt in Beckham and a coat controlled SP who could be dominate in the NL. Let's not kid ourselves here, Floyd has nasty stuff. When he is on he is unhittable. It's not like the Brewers are getting some slouch. Gavins problem is in between his ears most of the time. And it turns out the Brewers have success with pitchers like that, see Zach Grienke. And if the Sox throw in Castro or Hernandez they have a young prospect with a high upside. Escobar sure looks like a future all-star, and Odirizzi is one of the best pitching prospects in the game.

If the Sox traded huge pieces of their future for someone like Greinke for only and year and a half of his services, and then traded him away for an underachieving starting pitcher with one year left on his deal and an underachieving second baseman who's a possible non-tender candidate, I don't think anyone on here would be happy.

Verlander with 2 runs or less in 8 of last 9 starts, including tonight (hopefully this jinxes him)

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:04 AM) If the White Sox can justify and survive trading Gio Gonzalez for Swisher, they can withstand trading Viciedo and Reed for Geinke when a postseason birth is at stake. 10 games for Greinke as opposed to getting Swisher at the time with 4 years left on his contract....huge difference

Castro got shelled tonight. W-S definitely the most intriguing team to follow right now.

Nice start to the career of Starling Marte

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:09 PM) Those were my thoughts exactly. Yea Jones is cheaper but K Rod might be someone that is included. And truthfully is not a horrible option down the stretch over an unproven rookie. KRod has been terrible this season. Give me Q and Reed/Jones over Greinke and KRod

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 07:40 PM) The only reason I said that about Peavy is because any thought of him coming back would be wiped out if we skipped over him for Greinke. Jake still thinks he's the Cy Young pitcher, not the current (very good) version of Jake Peavy. And in no way do I think paying Jake Peavy anything above $15 million makes any sense. And he's going to get better offers than $11 million and one year...figuring in the buyout cost. I hope Sox let Peavy walk after this year, especially given the insane workload he's taking on this season. With Hamels signing the big extension, it increases Peavy's value this offseason even more.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:39 PM) Based on a whole 2 games? 3 games, 16 innings-19 earned runs Not what you'd expect from a guy who was one of the best pitchers on the planet during that time period. Almost idential numbers in the postseason to that of Javy Vazquez.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:37 PM) He also seems to be the best available starter that no one is talking about. Where's our Liriano?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 07:33 PM) But you're going to use Sale in that wildcard game, arguably. It wouldn't be Greinke. And good luck telling Peavy he's not starting after being on the team for 3+ years if for some reason Sale isn't still pitching at that point in the season. Well, we all know how awesome Peavy is in postseason/tiebreak games. It's unlikely that the Sox would be in a position to shuffle their rotation around to line up the starter they want for that one game anyways.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 07:23 PM) I wonder if the Sox would be willing to trade Ramirez. Milwaukee wants a SS, and eventually move Beckham to SS. I've been thinking that a team would trade for Beckham this offseason and try to move him to SS (or possibly 3b if they have a hole there). I wouldn't be shocked if the Cubs were interested in him, as both the Padres and Red Sox were rumored to have interest in him in the past.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 07:01 PM) The Brewers are definitely not rebuilding. They are making changes that help them win now, Melvin said it. The NL central is horrible, and they know if they win they pack the stadium. And winning isn't exactly difficult in the Central. Sorry, should have clarified...when I said youth movement, I didn't mean single A prospects with a chance to help in 2015. More like young, cost-controlled players that can help out starting next year or 2014. That team has no pitching at all outside of Gallardo and Fiers and one of the worst bullpens in a long time. They would be fools to spend their money on Hamilton when they need to make upgrades to their pitching. As for the NL Central, the Reds should be pretty damn good the next few years.