fathom

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 09:52 PM) You're telling me they couldn't have used a 3 step drop game plan that they used against Dallas in order to keep their best arm out on the field? Wasn't his first throw of the 2nd half on a play that required a 7 step drop or a partial roll-out? I just remember the throw looking really bad (that was until Collins came in and looked like a Make-a-Wish winner).

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 09:51 PM) What? How will he know if he was faking or not? If the MRI showed nothing maybe? You don't have to think he wasn't faking because, well, he wasn't. I don't believe this theory, but if you wanted to cover for your star playing "quitting" in a game, saying he has an MCL sprain that requires extensive rest but no surgery would be the perfect cover-up. However, please read my first 5 words of this post before jumping on this.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 09:47 PM) How the hell is anybody gonna know for certain IF he was faking or not? I mean, I don't think he was but let's not act like there's no reason to question the guy. He WAS hurt. But was he HURT? That's the question. I don't recall a single person ever denying that he didn't get hurt. COULD he have played? That's the argument. And all you guys are acting like somebody raped your mothers. I stayed out of this thread. I do my Bears posting on another site. But this s*** is ridiculous. I would've been suspended long before now. Props to Shack, fathom and sqwert for keepin' it clean. You're a good baseball person, so the first thought that came to my mind after the Cutler controversy was if it was another Mark Prior situation. Prior used to always take himself out of games and make the doctors do an MRI on his shoulder. They kept finding ligament strains, etc., but nothing that needed surgery or was unlike what a lot of other pitchers had pitched through. Jason, I'll give you credit for posting the information about the cortisone shot and diabetes. Very interesting, if for nothing more than to know for future situations.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 09:44 PM) So you think he was hurt and believe it was a valid reason to sit out? But just question how much he was helping Hanie? I don't care how much he was helping Hanie, as Collins is likely a better mentor anyways. I never said Cutler wasn't hurt either. I think he was really struggling in the first half and seemed extremely lethargic for some reason. He then got injured towards first half, and after trying to play in the 2nd half with it on that first drive, he obviously didn't give the trainers the answers they wanted to hear. The only reason there's even the hint of controversy, IMO, is the lack of medical attention given to him after he was pulled.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 08:29 PM) If you take that line to the logical conclusion, you've got three possibilities: 1) Lovie's dumb mind games 2) Incompetent training staff 3) They're still lying about the injury and he really doesn't have a Grade II MCL Sprain Either way, they're still saying 6-8 weeks before he's healed, so he probably wouldn't be playing in the SB regardless. Again, I'd look for more from ptatc, but maybe the risk of injury while just walking back and forth is low, since there wouldn't be much lateral movement. He'd be questionable for the SB if they won, according to ESPN last night. As for Lovie's dumb mind games, you can make that argument for the 3rd quarter, but once Hanie came in, we all knew Cutler was done for good. I'm definitely voting for the 2nd scenario there.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 08:28 PM) I don't think it was any Fox conspiracy. They just cut to Cutler at times and didn't have a reporter who followed up on what was going on and in general didn't have very good sideline coverage of his injury, etc. That might have been because there reporters stunk or it might have been because the Bears weren't talking much at the time. I don't know, but I don't think Fox conspired in this. However, there is only so much you can get from a couple shots on the sideline. I just know some he was by himself, others he was with the QB's. The beat writers fill in the rest for me saying he was helping. I also tend to notice that Cutler is usually (historically during Bears games) around Hanie a decent amount. I didn't say it was a conspiracy by Fox to only show him when he was pouting. I'm saying that Fox was definitely trying to hype up the fact that this was a situation of the star player standing on the sidelines when he's supposed to have a knee injury and showing no emotion or anything.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 08:26 PM) To say it's been entertaining wouldn't do it justice. Awesome...wasn't he also on the Danny Mac show earlier?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 08:21 PM) You don't think there'd be a few people who threw Jay under the bus, at least in the anonymous quote sense, if they thought he really had given up on them? Well, it certainly would be Holmes and ZZ (dumbest reporter anywhere) that would do it. However, it would come out sooner than later. As someone brilliantly put it earlier, Fox was definitely going with the theme of Cutler pouting on the sideline when he wasn't ruled out.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 08:21 PM) Here's the problem: you don't know this. You don't know that they had him on film, almost the entire half, doing nothing. That's just a blind assertion by you. What you know is that for about a total of a minute in the second half (however long they had Jay on camera), he wasn't always sitting with Hanie or going over plays. But sometimes he was talking to Hanie, cheering him on, in those brief snippets we do have. So it kinda blows your whole theory. As far as it being a giant conspiracy, even after the official "Grade II MCL" report came out, you were still questioning the severity of the injury, even though we knew exactly how severe it was, by definition of "Grade II MCL Sprain". You still ask "why was he walking around without braces and ice?" The only implication there that I can see is that you don't believe he really has a Grade II MCL Sprain. The reporters and some in the media (like B&B) have been saying that the Bears should have handled it differently and made the severity of Jay's injury clear as soon as possible to avert all this nonsense and to avoid tarnishing the reputation of their star QB. They're not advocating that the Bears should have lied about his injury, in fact they're doing just the opposite. They're chastising Lovie and Co. for playing their stupid mind games and letting this get out of hand. I still question what in the living hell were the Bears trainers doing by not putting him on crutches or in a brace? Say the Bears win, wouldn't you want to limit any further damage that could have been done walking on the sideline or shaking hands with the Packers players after the game in order to get him ready for the Super Bowl?

Wouldn't that be good news for the Bears if Harris retired, as they'd save money out of the deal?

How did Fox not show Collins or Hanie warming up once on their telecast? If it wasn't from being on soxtalk seeing some tweets and what was said on radio, I would have never even known it was possible Cutler was done.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 11:47 PM) No one associated with the Bears is even going to give the slightest hint of it being even remotely questionable Cutler could play. Yep, at first, Fox thought it might have been an elbow injury due to the blood on his shirt. I definitely thought it might have been a concussion, as he started to look as lethargic as he did during the Giants debacle.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 12:21 AM) If people want to complain, talk about the things Jay needs to improve upon, but also talk about how much of an impact his off the field persona has had on him. Fans and Players think he's an ass because he treats the media poorly. As a result, the media unjustifiably rips on him and this spiral continues. The sad thing is he has improved with the media and this season he's gotten much much better. He had a good year, especially when you factor what he had to work with. Was it a probowl year, not quite, but still a solid season and I'm happy that he's made improvements. He's my QB and I look forward to having him play in the same system in year 2 (hopefully behind an improved oline with a big physical playmaking wideout). This is very true....we all forget just how awful he was in his first season with the red zone picks. He made a lot of improvements, and I for one hope that Martz is back next year.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 09:44 PM) No kidding, f***ing Lisa Turtle won a dance contest with a sprain.....doing the sprain Oh please, she was dancing against a bunch of white people!! That's like a 1 vs 16 in the NCAA Tournament.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 09:43 PM) That still doesn't justify the reaction to this, imo. Calling him a p****, weak, questioning his toughness, etc. None of that fits with the situation--he was playing poorly, sprained his MCL, continued to play just as bad if not worse and was pulled in the 2nd half by the coaching/medical staff. What about that brings up questions about his toughness? If it was any other sport, you'd be correct. Right or wrong, the NFL has a long history of players dealing with extreme pain to perform in big games (Owens playing with a broken bone being the most impressive, IMO). As someone said earlier, it would be interesting to know if they tried shooting him up with painkillers and using a brace.

Maybe Lovie took Ozzie's philosophy of asking Cutler (or his starting pitcher) if they think they can stay in the game, and if Cutler wasn't definitive in his answer, then Lovie went with Collins?

Ptatc brings up a good point...did they ever try a brace on the knee? Also, did Lovie mention what play is took place on?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:49 PM) And people tear things all the time. You tear connective tissue and ligament fibers from stretching alone. Just because there was tearing, doesn't mean it was some terribly debilitating injury. Ultimately, none of us will know, because we are not Jay. But jeesh, as Ptatc mentioned, they certainly didn't seem to concerned about treating him on the sidelines. Well said

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:48 PM) There is a LONG list of guys who have played a variety of sports with ligament tears in their knee. I'm not going to get into the s*** throwing fest that some are engaged in throughout this thread, but that's just the truth. And that's what Cutler's legacy with this game is going to have to contend with. It's a weird situation, as Cutler's only chance of ending the controversy sooner rather than later was to have an actual major injury (including surgery), but this news is better for the Bears in the long run.

So the media questioned Lovie why Collins was 2nd string over Hanie? That's the biggest coaching issue that came from yesterday, and one that was pretty inexcusable after the Panthers game.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:43 PM) fathom, you disgust me. Darn, even though I think Michigan State sucks?

All I know is the coach from Varsity Blues would have tried to shoot that knee up with meds!

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:43 PM) Well, you certainly don't convey the fact because you said if it was a "sprain" vs a tear that he "pussied" out of the game. I meant a total rupture requiring surgery (which if you go back to last night, we talked about surgery quite a bit).

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:40 PM) Oh, he's a back-tracker. Don't act like you knew a strain was a tear. Um, 2 years of med school, father a doctor, torn ACL in high school....sadly, I know too much about this.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:38 PM) * A first degree sprain is damage to only a few ligament fibres. * A second degree sprain is damage to a more extensive number of ligament fibres, but the ligament remains intact. * A third degree sprain is a complete rupture of the ligament. Because of the force involved in this injury other structures in the knee, such as the Meniscus (Cartilage) or the Anterior Cruciate Ligament can also be damaged. It's still torn, fool. Thanks, I probably have a better insight of medical stuff on this board (besides ptatc). To say the MCL is completely torn is wrong. I'd love to know what B&B have to say about this now.