fathom

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 05:47 PM) Yep, thats exactly what happened. I'm going to be interested to see who tested positive because my guess is there are some big names that got off the juice following that testing. It will be interesting to see if some of the advocates against steroid use ended up testing positive.

Why do more people not think that offense was a huge issue during the 2nd half of last year? Even when our pitching was subpar during the first half of the year, we had a 6 game WC lead at the ASB. However, once our hitting became below average in the 2nd half of the year, that's when our lead evaporated quicker than SSI at a Greg Walker Appreciation Luncheon.

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 08:35 PM) Let's do, so pay attention. Danks pitched High-A ball in the California League, at both Stockton and Bakersfield, which is a hitter's paradise. The fact that Danks bounced back from a subpar half season at Stockton with an outstanding season at Bakersfield says loads. He then was promoted to AA, the hardest promotion for a minor-leaguer to handle, at 21, and pitched very well in 2006. In 2005 he was 20-years-old and in AA, so cut him some slack. God forbid he can't dominate AA at 20, the f***ing bum. And then, at 21, he was promoted to AAA PCL, which is even more of a hitter's league than the Cal League. Some ballparks, namely Albuquerque, I could hit home runs out of. Think Coors Field, no humidor, and then lower the gravity a bit. The fact that Danks averaged less than a hit per innings and a strikeout per inning, for a 21-year-old, is simply outstanding. But if you want to hold him to the standards that he should be turning water into wine, knock yourself out. Now compare our situation to others in the AL Central. Minnesota lost 40% of their rotation in the offseason and Carlos Silva is usually a lock to suck. Here's their projected starting rotation: Santana Bonser Silva Garza Baker/Slowey/??? Their oldest pitcher is also 32. They are going to have growing pains, not to mention some of their pitchers are going to flake out (Reyes) and come down to Earth a bit (Neshek). The Twins shouldn't be worried about now, but rather two to three years down the road if even 25% of their prospects pan out. They're looking very good. Tigers are looking at: Bonderman Rogers (pine tarring and fluking his way to an abberation near you) Verlander Robertson Grilli (laffo)/Maroth/Miner I'd go to war with our rotation against theirs, 5th starter and all, any day of the week. Don't forget Ledezma on the Tigers, as well as Andrew Miller. I'd take Ledezma over any of our possible 5th starters.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 06:46 PM) Not acquired - someone in-system. Terrero. Is he starting material? Probably not. But he can defend the position, which is what I am looking for right now. And the write-ups I have found indicate he has a strong arm and is a generally good defender, though has some issues to work through. Plus he has a bit of speed, and some power. Seems about ideal to me. Again, I don't think this is who KW had in mind when it came to upgrading the big league team this offseason. With that in mind, I think we'll sign another outfielder in the next month.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 06:33 PM) I don't agree. We improved, without much debate, at the following positions: Backup C, bullpen as a whole, backup CF and bench generally in terms of how we use them (Gload was a loss, but we now have the RIGHT bench personnel lined up). That leaves the highly debateable 5th starter slot. Even if you think B-Mac would be better in 2007 than Danks, we are still improved in a few spots and even or maybe down a bit in that one. So to say this team is somehow worse off, I just don't see it. Who is this mysterious back-up we've acquired? And I hope no one is considering Danks for a starting spot with the big league team in 2007.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 06:25 PM) It's really cute to mock Cuban birth records and Contreras' age. I do it sometimes and so do my friends. We call him "The Young Man" with our tongue planted firmly in cheek but I'm afraid I can't let this bulls*** stand. Contreras isn't that hold and he isn't injury-prone, either. He had a back injury that altered his pitching peformance for a majority of the season. That's very alarming, especially at his age. And the jokes about his age are because everyone in the industry knows that guys like him and Duque are 3-5 years older than what they say they are.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 06:19 PM) Let's see. Holes to fill on 10/1: LF, Backup C, a couple bullpen spots. I see only LF left on that list. We had 5 good SP's and a possible 6th - now we have 4 good SP's and possible 5 thru 9 (some may see this as a downgrade, I do not). Defensively, the team is solid. Bench is fine. The 2007 Major League team has improved. The offseason is also still not over. And meanwhile, the 2008 team is looking a lot better than it was. LF is the only concern left worth noting, I think. Any other upgrades would be good if the deal is value-positive for us, but are by no means necessary. Seems pretty obvious to me the team is better than it was. We're making the same exact mistake we made in the 2003 and 2004 years, when we thought we could just fill in (name pitcher) for the 5th starter position, and it would work out. Besides for adding Hall, we've done nothing to help our offense. We're putting a lot of hope into Thome, Dye, PK, and Crede staying healthy the whole season again (besides for Thome's little injuries). Also, even though we've added some guys to the bullpen, I don't think that's what KW had in mind when he said we were going to improve it this offseason. I think he thought he'd be able to get guys like Speier and Walker, but their contracts were a lot higher than he thought they'd be. All I know is that if I sit back and take off my White Sox goggles, we're not an improved team ON PAPER!.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 06:14 PM) An improved major league team. And this isn't an improved team. We've "added a lot of talent"? Not major league talent. Adding guys like Terrero, Sisco and Aardsma is only technically filling holes. Those aren't upgrades. Actually, maybe the bullpen is a little bit better. But only a little. KW signed a good back up catcher. That small hole was filled. The nearly automatic outs in LF, CF and SS remain. We also lost 2 of our 6 good SP's. Now we have no good, major league ready #5 starter and if/when a SP goes down, we have no depth to fill that spot. The 2007 major league team hasn't been improved. I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise right now.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 05:53 PM) That isn't the entire deal. McCarthy will probably contribute more than Danks in 2007. But it's Masset + Danks vs BMac. Masset is the key. He'll likely play a large role in the sox 2007 bullpen. Since when has so much stock been placed in the performance by someone in Winter Ball? Didn't Arnie Munoz dominate Winter Ball a few years ago? If Winter Ball is so important, then we shouldn't have had all of our players return after a few weeks this year.

The reason the 2004-2005 offseason was so successful for KW and the Sox was that KW was able to point out where we need help, and he was able to fill those holes. The troubling part right now is that he's done little to fill the holes that we had coming into this offseason (LF, back-up 4th outfielder, relief depth). The best move that KW has made this offseason, by far, is signing Toby Hall.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 05:22 PM) Say what you will about these trades KW has made. Feel free to recognize that KW has restocked our minors with some really good top pitching prospects. And yes the future of Sox pitching looks good because of it. But at the same time, let us not pretend that KW has not made the 2007 Sox team worse in the process. If the Sox don't play well this year, it's going to be very interesting to see how the fans react. While there's many smart fans on here that understand these moves, I'd have to say that the majority of White Sox fans that don't understand the behind-the-scenes nature of the sport feel as if JR and KW are rebuilding, and not reloading. As for me personally, I was hoping this type of offseason would occur after the 2007 season, and not the 2006 season. QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 26, 2006 -> 05:30 PM) If Haeger is starting in the Majors next year, I'll bet he beats McCarthy in wins and ERA. It's amazing what some quality relief innings in worthless September games will do for some people's reputation. We went into this offseason with Haeger possibly being the last reliever on the roster to him being the odds-on favorite to be the #5 starter.

Some interesting comments by KW about getting guys that we've wanted. There's been rumors about KW scouting the Texas farm system, especially Danks and Massett, for a few months now. With that in mind, there are two other guys that we've been rumored to "want" for a while. One is Crawford, but the timing for that doesn't seem good right now. The only guy is D. Willis.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 09:02 PM) Even though this trade kina blows for this year. Our rotation could be young, cheap and filthy in the next few years. 1. Danks 2. Gio 3. Floyd 4. Broadway 5. Haeger I'll be thrilled if 2 of them are solid MLB starters.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 09:00 PM) Hooray for being the Florida Marlins. We could only dream of having a GM that gets as much for his veterans as their GM does. I like KW, but this is definitely his biggest weakness in terms of trading.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 09:00 PM) It's interesting timing on this trade, to say the least. Now one of the "others" will have to step up for then 5th starter spot. Haeger seems like the leading candidate.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 08:59 PM) I was not aware you had so much inside information in the inner dealings of MLB GM's. When it comes to Tampa, I do. Tampa Bay LOVES McCarthy.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 08:55 PM) I am actually for this deal for a different reason and its because of some inside stuff I know about the situation. Danks is a studly prospect (definately the caliber of McCarthy, although not as developed so there is a risk with that) and Massett is a very good looking young reliever. Inside stuff about McCarthy?

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 08:53 PM) Or THEY decided against it. I haven't seen much that tells me Crawford is even on the market. A bunch of names have come up this off-season in the media, and I haven't really seen any around Crawford, other than the X-Box trades people try to come up with. If the Sox were putting McCarthy on the table, Tampa would have listened. I can guarantee that for a fact. They were going to ask for more prospects also.

Let me add this: KW got about equal value for McCarthy. It's just a lateral move though, as McCarthy has at least proven he can handle MLB hitters.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 08:50 PM) Give KW a call and tell him you would like the job to shop for a "stud" LF'er, they cant be too hard to find... Well, we could have possibly got one from Tampa for McCarthy and another prospect, but we decided against it. I see that we're trying to stockpile our farm system with starting pitching prospects and power relief arms, but this is something that should have been done after 2007.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 08:43 PM) So, besides the fact that BMAC started for us at the end of 2005, Ozzie didnt want to start him. And when we had no openings in the rotation this year, Ozzie didnt like him. And when Texas came knocking on our door offering two nice prospects for BMAC, Ozzie decided to pull the trigger? You couldnt possibly be that retarded could you? I hope its an act. Let me ask you this: do you think Ozzie handled McCarthy well in his two years here?

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 08:43 PM) So, besides the fact that BMAC started for us at the end of 2005, Ozzie didnt want to start him. And when we had no openings in the rotation this year, Ozzie didnt like him. And when Texas came knocking on our door offering two nice prospects for BMAC, Ozzie decided to pull the trigger? You couldnt possibly be that retarded could you? I hope its an act. How many more losses did we have in 2005 due to Ozzie not pulling the trigger and finally going to McCarthy over Duque? And you know damn well that the reason there wasn't a rotation spot open in 2006 was because we traded for Vazquez when we could have given the job to McCarthy.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 08:40 PM) What would make it better then? Acquiring a stud left fielder. As I said around the trade deadline, if you can't upgrade your pitching, then you better upgrade your offense.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 08:40 PM) You honestly can't be that f***ing dense, can you? What do you disagree with?

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 08:39 PM) Are you even trying to make sense? When did he find every excuse? When did he say he LOVES Vaz and doesnt feel comfortable with BMAC? Kw made the trade, stop blaming Ozzie for everything you dont like. Even when McCarthy was pitching great in 2005, Ozzie still found every excuse to keep Duque in the rotation. Then, whenever one of our starters sucked last year, he'd say things like the infamous "he's not Cy Young". Do you really think that Ozzie doesn't have a say in our transactions? There's been a few times in the past few years where KW mentioned that his coaches told them to go get such and such player.