fathom

QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:33 AM) I echo that, they can't have a salary dump move after the attendance last year, that would be in horrible faith. Especially with what the Cubs are doing right now.

QUOTE(My Dixie Normus @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:30 AM) There is no reason to believe that McCarthy won't do that. The chances of him being the next Cy Young, like so many have been treating him, are not looking all that good. If Contreras can't stay healthy and McCarthy sucks, we are the Cubs. I don't get why they do this before locking up the season ticket money. Cubs have a better offense

QUOTE(kevo880 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:29 AM) Gavin is a top notched prospect that got roughed up in half a season in the major leagues...why does this not make him a top prospect still? I hope he spends the year at AAA and shows he has his s*** together and step into the rotation possibly in 2007. Cause his stuff has deteriorated, and there's concerns about his mental make-up.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:29 AM) That being said, I do wish we could have gotten a little more...this was a trade you'd see from a team rebuilding and not one contending. Bingo...that's the scariest part of the whole trade.

QUOTE(quickman @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:27 AM) This is one of the worst trades I have actually seen. We get two minor leaguers who won't make it big time for a 17-20 game winner. You can keep your GIO. I am sure he will have a spot in our pen because he is a lefthander, but will crap down his pant leg for the next two years, and floyd will never make it. Horrible trade, but for all you guys who are in love with prospects you should be rejoicing in the fleecing and embarrassment of the winter meetings. makes me want to cancel the season tickets. Oh by the way we still have all the same holes we had yesterday.Gavin Floyd, what a joke. Wait until next year when we back up the truck. Gavin Floyd equals Tim redding. Yep...next year is the last year in our "window". I was really hoping we'd go all out. QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:28 AM) Garcia is gonna dominate in the NL. Gavin Floyd in the AL? I don't even have to say anything. Not when he's pitching at Philly.

QUOTE(Felix @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:23 AM) But for Mark Prior... Lingering injuries for a pitcher is completely different than the injuries Rocco had. Rocco is also a world-class athlete who will develop power as he gets older.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:20 AM) I was thinking abou that. How does Williams explain this to the media? I believe the problem here is Kenny treated this deal like one of his patented "under the radar," "low risk/high reward" moves he so often does. Problem is, in this instance he wasn't trading Joe Borchard or Aaron Miles. My personal belief, and it was the same last year after the 2005 season, is that KW/Ozzie became arrogant and stubborn. They believe Cooper can fix everyone...and while he does good with some guys, other guys show big regressions.

QUOTE(ptatc @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:02 AM) You're right. Base a pitcher's entire future on what 15 or so starts. He cannot possibly have a good career. Actually, that's based off of talking to someone who talks to minor league scouts every single day.

QUOTE(ptatc @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:00 AM) that would be bad. Two starting pitchers for an often injured outfielder????? If we could get Rocco for these 2 guys, you do that deal in a heartbeat. Floyd has minimal value right now, and Gio is no sure-thing.

I think we should use the freed up money to get a power hitting left fielder!!!!

QUOTE(robinventura23 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:57 AM) I agree this trade will not make any sense unless KW has something else up his sleeve. If not, this is pathetic that this is all he could get for one of our starters. Which further illustrates how much of a disaster the Vazquez trade was.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:55 AM) you are right 17 wins sucks ass esspecially in this inflated desperate for pitching market. gimme a break fathom. Do you think any team is going to give up the farm in order to trade for him and give him a 3/40 million extension when his fastball is 88 mph? QUOTE(ptatc @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:55 AM) This trade still leaves the Sox with 6 starteing pitchers. It doesn't seems Floyd has anything more to prove in the minors. I think there will be more to come. On no planet should Floyd be starting in the AL.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:52 AM) WHAT A f***IN rip off!!!!!! Pathetic. I hope you Garcia haters are happy now. Well, if Garcia was better, then maybe he would have brought us back better players?

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:50 AM) Im one of the biggest Kenny fanboys, and even I can say Williams looks awful right now. Didn't he say he wouldn't make any moves that wouldn't make us better in 2007? This isn't the time for the Sox to be going about things like a middle market team. There's too much at risk with the momentum in the city we've established.

QUOTE(Soxpranos @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:45 AM) How does a .262 average in 2006 and a career .279 hitter make this trade go from crap to , "I'm really liking it"? Cause at least we'd be getting a 4th outfielder that could help against LHP. This is a disasterous trade...Gavin Floyd stinks. I would have rather we keep Garcia and then risk losing him after this season.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:43 AM) What the f*** is the point of trading for guys that we already had? KW was supposed to rape some team this year, not bring back former players. I can't wait until we bring back Sandy this week.

No shock...rotoworld hates the trade. QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:43 AM) I wasnt crazy about millege anyway. I'd take him over the two guys we got in a heartbeat.

I think Tom Doer was wrong...no Rowand.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:41 AM) I'm not terribly dissappointed with this deal. If either of these guys ever figure it out, they're going to be real good. Gotta harness some control, we're getting twelve years of these two + $10 million for one year of Freddy. It's a letdown from the Pelfrey/Milledge rumors, but I don't find it that terrible... Pelfrey was never on the table.

Comcast just said Rowand is involved.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:35 AM) a few things.....this saves us 10 million, and floyd and gio become our #1 and #2 pitching prospects, but i think we coulda more...like a major league ready reliever....but to me this trade reeks of more trades to come....williams acquiring young pitching to trade for other parts Gavin Floyd is 23 years old and is no longer considered a top prospect.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:36 AM) So it's basically Gio being substituted for Rowand. I don't really see how this makes a lot of sense UNLESS, these 2 are then flipped to the D-Rays for say Carl Crawford or Rocco Baldelli. It's nice to have Gio back in the organization though for the moment because I rate him highly. Tampa wanted McCarthy for Rocco, and they're not trading Crawford.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:35 AM) This is just one deal we couldn't afford to f*** up, no matter which starter we dealt we needed a great return. f*** me. Please wake me up when one thing positive happens this offseason. The only bright spot I can see is that jphat and I can't argue anymore about Garcia intentionally throwing a high curve.

Quick scouting report on Floyd: On a good day, Floyd has a 94 mph fastball and a hard-breaking, 12-to-6 curveball. On a bad day, he tightens up and loses velocity on his fastball and bite on his curveball

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:34 AM) I think the market wasnt there or something, cause this deal is bulls*** IMO. There better be someone else involved. There isn't...it's a 2 for 1 trade.