ZoomSlowik

I feel old.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 08:35 PM) Isn't making 33 percent of your 3s the equivalent to making 50 percent inside the arc? I really don't see the problem. Taking an occassional 3 instead of attacking the rim is going to help him physically over the course of a season, and does get the defender a little closer to him to blow by when he chooses, of course he's not going to go to the line and score with no attempt being charged, but you're really nitpicking. A couple of things: -Rose is shooting 58% inside of 3 feet this year, and 53.4% when you include everything inside of 9 feet, so his conversion rates still favor the shot in the basket area. -As you already said, he draws free throws when he goes to the basket which he doesn't (at least not frequently) when shooting jumpers. He gets 5.8 PPG at the free throw line, which tilts things fairly heavily towards the drive. -He's also a lot more likely to create good shots for his teammates if he's driving than if he's shooting long jumpers. Besides, as I've said a few times, occasional threes aren't an issue. 4.8 threes a game isn't really occasional though. That's like a quarter of his shot attempts, atempts where he's not getting to the line or drawing multiple defenders to open up shots for his teammates. However, I agree, it's not the end of the world given his total contributions to the team. Steve is the one that has turned this into a huge deal because I suggested that maybe a passable at best three point shooter shouldn't take so many threes in a random comment on AIM.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 9, 2011 -> 08:22 AM) See, to me, watching a "handful" of games isn't sufficient enough and squarely puts you in the "stats no watch" group. How anyone could consider themselves a Bulls fan and not take in as much D-Rose as possible (especially given your amount of free time) just offends me. Then chimijg in with stats to say my eyes lie just takes the cake. I'll drop the whole questioning of fandom (and I've never claimed to be a die-hard Bulls' fan anyways) and how many games you have to watch to have your opinion matter points because that's not going to go anywhere constructive. However, the "stats lying to you" part is another story. How exactly are they lying? Does he not take 4.8 threes a game? Does he not miss two thirds of them? Exactly what part of that is incorrect? Your main point seemed to be that it helped the rest of his game because "people had to respect his shot". That may be somewhat true, and there's no question that having a solid jumper gives him a more rounded offensive game. Again, I never said he should stop shooting 3's all together at any point as you claimed twice. However, he wasn't exactly struggling to get to the basket last year when he took less than a 3-pointer a game. After a slow start to last year due to injury, he averaged 22 PPG after November while shooting a much better percentage than he is this season. It's not like taking 5 threes a game is the reason he gets to the basket, he gets to the basket because he's really f***ing athletic. He was able to attack the rim consistently and effectively long before he could hit the three (he could already hit mid-range jumpers pretty well last year). It certainly doesn't hurt that he can make an open 3 now. However, it's still a poor choice of shot for him. He doesn't have to take 5 threes a game to be able to get to the rim as he proved last year. He's at his best when he's attacking the rim and getting to the free throw line (something he's done WAY more effectively this season and a far more impactful improvement IMO). Much like with guys like Lebron, Wade and Westbrook, you'd much rather have them shooting jumpers than killing you with penetration. This isn't really that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things given what the Bulls are doing. You live with it it given everything else he does for team. However, you decided to turn it into one by taking multiple shots at me on the board for some reason.

QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 10:26 PM) LOL Don't you still like oj mayo over Rose?? And zoom wanted beasley over Rose And j4l is almost always overreactingly wrong Not that big of a deal. Everyone's gonna have a wrong opinion every now and then... Unfortunately, this is true. Beasley just looked like such a beast in college, but he's taking too many long 2-point jumpers in the NBA and stopped attacking the glass and rebounding. Derrick developed SOOOO much faster than I thought after watching him in college and summer league games (yes, I am occasionally nerdy enough to watch summer league games). Then he took over in a pre-season game against Dallas and never looked back. It's been pretty awesome to see him do this well so early in his career. I am definitely wrong at times, sometimes epically so.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 05:29 PM) No, ZoomSlowik says he needs to stop shooting them, the morning after that game, because he doesn't watch the games. Yet somehow I'm the bad guy and SoxAce is the self-anointed smartest basketball brain in the history of the world. I'll avoid this thread for the weekend. Way to go on this rant when you know I'm gone for the evening. First off, you make it sound like I've never even seen a basketball when that's just not the case. I've seen a handful of games this year, though I watch a lot more college basketball and Sox games. The NBA just isn't my top viewing choice until the playoffs. Second, the notion that because someone doesn't watch EVERY game makes their opinion invalid is ridiculous, and this isn't the first time you've taken that approach. Third, I never said he should STOP shooting 3's. I said that taking 5 a game when you're still a below average shooter isn't a particularly good choice and he doesn't have to brick three a game on average to keep people honest. Fourth, the original context was how the heck Rose shoots enough to get 1.6 made 3's a game for fantasy purposes, not that it's a HUGE problem for the Bulls or anything along those lines. But sure, keep going on the "watch the games" and "it makes him more dangerous" lines again and again because they clearly add to your case and aren't subjective at all.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 7, 2011 -> 07:56 PM) Wisconsin is overrated That is odd to say. I feel like people are going to look at their top-25, see only two Big Ten teams in it, and force someone in there. No one really makes sense to me right now other than OSU and Michigan (and even that assumes Morris is back). You'd have to be a bit nuts or a homer to put Penn State, Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa, Northwestern and Purdue in the discussion. Indiana is improving, but not really there yet. Illinois has talent, but it's largely unproven and thinner in the frontcourt. Michigan State is similar to Illinois. Green and Roe are okay, but the backcourt is a mess and they didn't play well this past year. That just leaves Wisconsin, who looks spotty outside of Taylor. I feel like at least one or two teams will seperate from that middle tier, but good luck figuring out who it is.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Apr 7, 2011 -> 09:28 AM) Yes, that's why they're talking about Kentucky, not Kansas. As for next years teams, UNC is going to be absolutely loaded if Barnes comes back, easily the front runner imo. And even after the top 8, I think there should be some decent teams. Love Vandy's talent, despite their 1st round exits in the NCAA's the last couple of years. UCLA is going to be loaded with talent as well. I'm sure the level of play still wont be anything outstanding but you'll have some pretty damn good teams next year imo. I thought the same thing about Vandy. Based on talent, 11 makes sense, but they didn't exactly dominate in the SEC and lost in the first round. They definitely could be good though. I don't know about UCLA, Honeycutt is already gone and Lee might be. Do they have enough in the backcourt with Jones, Anderson, Lamb and Powell? The froncourt should be fine. If Lee returns, I'd be inclined to agree with you. I like Xavier. Holloway, Lyons and Frease should be back and they add Travis Taylor, a transfer from Monmouth that averaged 17.8/7.6 on 54% shooting as a sophomore. If Morris comes back, I definitely think Michigan can/should be higher. Florida could be interesting with that insane backcourt too if they get defense and rebounding up front (which I would guess Patric Young will do). Some of those teams in 11-20 range just aren't pretty though. Kansas without the Morris twins and Selby? Jordan Taylor and the parade of role players? Marquette after losing 15 games and with Butler and Buycks graduating? Yikes.

QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Apr 6, 2011 -> 05:59 PM) I think the drop off after UNC and UK will be pretty severe. It will either be UK, UNC or UNC, UK depending on what Barnes, Jones, and Knight do. Well, if you want to get technical about it, yeah, those two would have to massively choke to not get #1 seeds. But seeing Memphis and Arizona in the top-10 is pretty weak. I realize they should both get most of their teams back and add a couple of nice recruits between them, but Memphis was a 12-seed this year and Arizona won't have much of a frontcourt assuming Williams goes and no sure-fire #1 scorer.

Might as well post Andy Katz's early top-25 if we're moving on to next year already: Early top-25 Obviously there are going to be a ton of changes, but the drop-off after #8 or so already has me worried for another uninspiring season.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 4, 2011 -> 09:33 PM) Agreed. I just didn't feel like listing nearly every team that played in the final 4 prior to the last two years with a few exceptions here or there. For whatever reason, the best teams seem to find ways to lose the last two years more than normal. Look at Kansas and Kentucky last year, they were both WAY more talented than anyone this year but both choked with awful shooting nights. At least with OSU this year you can blame the draw a bit with them drawing Kentucky and UNC in their region, I don't know how teams with that much NBA talent can lose though.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 4, 2011 -> 07:45 PM) Really? I haven't checked the numbers. But I assumed he was well above average (or at least above average) from an efficiency standpoint. Problem is he's a black hole that doesn't make anybody around him better, and he's borderline Toni Kukoc defensively when he's got 10 times the physical talent/skills of Kukoc. Depends on who you compare him to. His true shooting % is 22nd at SF, but it's a lot easier to have a high true shooting percentage when you're not your team's #1 scoring option. When you compare him to other guys that are scoring a lot of points this year, he's still below a lot of the top tier guys but is still above guys like Kobe, Rose, Westbrook, Aldridge, Griffin and Granger.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 4, 2011 -> 11:59 AM) Omar Epps was terrible. I did find Willie though. He's going to be busy. They bailed Wild Thing out of jail in the first one, they can do the same thing with Willie!

QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Apr 4, 2011 -> 06:17 PM) Yep, but these reports of Barnes staying are premature. It all started with a random Twitter post, and went from there. Nothing substantial yet. I think Zeller would be silly to return after the tournament he just had, but I won't complain. Zeller (and Henson) are a completely different story when it comes to draft stock. Barnes is a consensus top-5 pick (maybe higher), those kind of guys rarely go back to school (Griffin and Noah are the only recent ones that come to mind, and Sullinger from all indications). Henson usually shows up as a fringe lottery guy at best and Zeller is closer to 20. Both could potentially end up in the lottery with another year of development, with Henson potentially making the high lottery. There's certainly value in being a lock first rounder, but probably less so in a likely lockout year. Just based on draft stock, Barnes leaving makes by far the most sense, followed by Henson and then Zeller a distant third. Obviously that doesn't mean that they'll stay though.

Damn, if Barnes and either of their bigs stay, UNC is going to be pretty damn good.

I would say two things on the 'Melo topic. 1) It depends on where you think he's "rated". I would assume most basketball experts would say he's not in the upper echelon with Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Dwight, Durant and Rose, but that he's definitely somewhere in that next 10 names. In other words, he's a guy that's not going to single-handedly carry you to a title, but he's definitely the kind of guy you can build a 50-win team around and with the right roster around him you might be able to contend for a title with him as your best player. I don't think most people think he's in that first category, but he'd definitely be overrated at that level. However, I don't think there's much of an argument that he's one of the best scorers in the league and a frachise-type player. 2) I would agree with Steve that team structure plays a large part in their respective records since the trade. The Knicks have star power, but that team is simply not good as it is currently constructed. They only have five guys that should be in an NBA rotation right now and probably only three that should be starters. Their three best players are all sub-par defenders and they don't have anyone that can defend the post. Combine that with the adjustment period from radically changing their roster mid-season and you get a poor record. The Nuggets on the other hand don't have the star power but have a far more complete lineup and much better depth. Nene is a very underrated big man, they have two productive PG's with Lawson and Felton, and several competent wings that are capable of having a big night. They're not going to beat one of the good teams in a playoff series, but they have 7-10 guys that can start for a lot of teams and could make some interesting trades with their multitude of pieces. The Knicks need to add at least 2 more above average players to be a real title threat, which would be difficult. I keep hearing them associated with Paul or Williams, but that would still leave them with a gaping hole inside and both 'Melo and the new PG would need the ball in their hands an awful lot. They'd basically be a poor man's version of the Heat. Now if they could somehow get Dwight that would be another story, but then they would need to find a find a replacement PG somewhere. Of course the other major problem with this is that they will already have $45 mil committed for next year, which wouldn't be enough for a max deal even before the cap falls.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Mar 31, 2011 -> 03:45 PM) Bruce Weber at SIU: 15-12 (t-5th MVC), 20-13 (3rd MVC; NIT 2nd round), 16-14 (t-4th MVC), 28-8 (t-1st MVC; Sweet 16), 24-7 (1st MVC; NCAA 1st round) Bill Self didn't make the postseason until his fourth year at Oral Roberts and that was the NIT. He didn't make the tourney in his first year with Tulsa and went 9-5 in the WAC in year two (with a tourney appearance). Tom Izzo didn't make the tourney until his 3rd year at Michigan State. Generally everyone does exactly what you just said. I think that's fairly clear at this point. Unless you can get a Matt Painter type (and really, meh) who is potentially frustrated at his major job, Shaka is the most attractive candidate. Those 4th and 5th years are the important parts though, the part of his career where he's winning the conference with his own recruits. We don't know how capable he is of building a program because he has so little experience as a head coach so far. Anthony Grant already did a lot of the heavy lifting at VCU by going 76-25 before he left for Alabama. He also recruited the five best players on this current VCU squad and Larry Sanders, who left after last season (Shaka's first) for the pros. He just hasn't built much of a resume, you don't know if he's Todd Licklitter or Thad Matta yet. That former one is the comparison that would worry me. Following a brief stopover from Matta, Lick went 53-12 his first two years with a Sweet 16 appearance. Butler went 49-43 his next three years before he had another solid season (29-7, Sweet 16 appearance) and bolted for Iowa. He didn't last long there. Then again, it could make a ton of sense for Missouri as their roster is loaded with returning talent. A coach that can maximize that right now and reap the benefits of a strong season on the recruiting trail could set them up nicely. I'm not sure who that coach is though, these candidates don't exactly thrill me. If I were the AD at a middle to upper tier power conference school, I wouldn't go near him right now because his cost will out-pace his resume by a fair margin. For the salary he'll likely get, I'd want another two years of solid performances in a lower conference.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 12:41 PM) VCU was definitely not overrated. Butler was not overrated. There are a bunch of teams that were clearly underrated going into the tournament. You can't really use their tournament run as a reasoning for why they were underrated going into the tournament. Those teams got the seeds they deserved based on their regular season performance. VCU finished 4th in the Colonial for god's sake. They were 23-11 before the tournament and had several ugly losses (South Florida, Georgia State, Northeastern, Drexel and James Madison). Butler had a very up and down season as well. They were 14-9 at one point and lost 5 games in a rather suspect Horizon League. They lost to a brutal Youngstown State team and lost twice to a 19-14 Milwaukee team, plus they had a loss to Evansville before the conference season. Obviously their respective tournament runs make their seasons look a lot better, but you can't go back and say that they were underrated because of events that hadn't happened yet.

Sullinger isn't Elton Brand, he was a better athlete with freakishly long arms. He made a difference as a shot-blocker, something Sullinger won't do. He MAY be Sean May, but people are throwing that around like it's more of a stigma than it should be. He had injury problems early in his career, and between microfracture surgery in 2007 and conditioning issues he never really had a chance. Before he got hurt his second year, he was averaging 12-7 in only 24 MPG while shooting 50% from the floor. I still see no real reason he can't be Carlos Boozer. They have a similar build and Carlos isn't exactly explosive nor particularly quick.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Mar 26, 2011 -> 12:06 AM) On a side note, most people said the right side of the bracket was immensly weaker than the left side going into the dance, and boy that really shows up now, even WITH Ohio State and Duke gone on the left and Kansas alive on the right. The tournament committee did a terrible job balancing the bracket/regions. Totally agreed, I think everyone knew OSU's bracket was loaded and Pitt's bracket stunk. You had the same think last year with Duke getting a cakewalk as the 3rd #1 seed. They really need to try to balance these more, I don't know how you can justify sticking OSU with UNC, Syracuse and Kentucky while Pitt gets Florida, BYU and Wisconsin.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 11:12 PM) I hope what I said to you before the tournament started didn't sway you in picking this game. Ha, no, I changed my pick before that unfortunately.

I knew this game would be a tough one. A game like that is exactly why I thought OSU got screwed on their draw. They had a good team, but they had to get through Kentucky and UNC/Syracuse just to get to the Final Four. Both of those teams tonight deserved a deep tournament run, but they got stuck in the same bracket instead of putting someone good in the Pitt bracket.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 10:42 PM) I think I'm going to wager a large margin against Arizona in the Elite 8. They are literally playing as well as they possibly can. That's screams letdown to me. I would tend to agree with this, especially since this second half performance will probably make the line more favorable to bet against them. Pretty crazy because the game could have been over at halftime if not for Williams kicking ass.

Arizona has just been insanely good this second half.

Derrick Williams is single-handedly keeping Arizona within 20. Hell of a performance so far.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 08:49 PM) Anyways, I feel real bad for this BYU team, if Davies is healthy, that team really had a legit shot to go to not only the final four but the final game. Oh well. EDIT: For some reason I always say "if Davies was healthy," you guys know what I mean. Even scarier, give them Davies and Tyler Haws (guard that averaged 11 a game as a freshman) back from his Morman mission. Now THAT if a Final Four team for sure.