Kalapse

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 14, 2009 -> 05:49 PM) Lillibridge hasn't shown the last 18 months that he could be anything close to a good leadoff man. I'm still hoping KW makes some sort of trade. He'd be a disaster. Whether you look at his minor league production or his spring showing/numbers, he's not a major league hitter at this point in time.

That's an .840 OPS on the spring for Brian over 34 AB.

26 PA for Beckham on the spring and he's still yet to strikeout. He and AJ are the only hitters who can claim this.

Lillibridge now looking at a 1/11 BB/K ratio for the spring.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 14, 2009 -> 04:59 PM) .740 OPS .719 after that AB

Coming into today Viciedo had more official Spring ABs than Betemit (who's started more than a few games at SS) and Castillo had 8. Viciedo has more spring plate appearances than Josh Fields.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 14, 2009 -> 04:50 PM) Hey, Anderson's over the Mendoza line? Sweet. .740 OPS

Wise, CF Ramirez, SS Quentin, LF Dye, DH Konerko, 1B Betemit, 3B Anderson, RF Getz, 2B Miller, C Not enough incentive to watch this one. I have no desire to listen to Hawk and Stone talk up awful baseball players.

QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Mar 14, 2009 -> 09:51 AM) I thought we wanted to get younger? Because starting a 31 year old career minor leaguer in CF makes the team younger? It's not like Edmonds would be blocking some incredible young talent we have stashed away in AAA, he'd come in on a one year deal and give you a better chance at winning games than the other 30+ year old option currently on the roster.

Jim Edmonds would be a more productive leadoff hitter than Dewayne Wise.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 05:55 PM) Not sure why but nobody has mentioned Josh Kroeger as a possibility at CF. He has lots of talent and has played well so far this year. He's also a lefty so he could platoon with either Lilli of Anderson. Not sure what his defense looks like but it couldn't be any worse than Wise or Owens. I'd much rather give him a shot over those two. He's only 25 or 26 so he still has a chance to blossom unlike Wise/Owens who are both about 30 and clearly don't really have that much to offer as anything other than situational players. It could and it might just be considering he hasn't gotten a single inning out there this spring and Bill Melton (not the best source of information to say the least) keeps comparing him to Ross Gload. The fact that he's played more 1B than CF tells me the Sox may see him as more of a corner OF/1B type. A Lillibridge/Kroeger CF would be interesting though with 207 total chances in centerfield between them since 2005.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 05:43 PM) Good point. Wise's numbers would be even more ridiculous. Anderson actually homered in the exhibition against Australia, that'd be a nice jolt to his Spring SLG%.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 05:43 PM) Your actually right, (LAD, though he allowed baserunners in every inning) and yes, I do agree with you on Egbert (though he's the only guy I agree with you about in this game thread) It should be either him or Marquez, and I'm shocked that the sox didn't pick up on this sooner. I don't care about Egbert, there aren't a lot of choices for the 7th spot in the pen so he might be a decent option as a long man, I don't know. I was arguing the other side to prove a point. You can't just award jobs to players because they "deserve" it based on their spring stats while ignoring their defensive ability, experience at the position and past success/track record during meaningful games. That was my argument.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 05:34 PM) Damn those good hitters in "B" games. Do "B" game stats count because I don't think they do.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 05:31 PM) Who did Egbert start against? Australia? I can't remember...and the line-up he faced that day. I have no idea, I know it wasn't Australia because the stats for that game didn't count otherwise Beckham's OPS would be over 1.300 right now as opposed to the high 1.200's.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 05:26 PM) Nix is the best defender on the team...we've yet to see how Beckham will do at 2B over an extended period of time. He's looked better at SS so far...or are you arguing he should be beating out Alexei Ramirez, because he's clearly outplayed everyone on our team offensively?? That's the same argument as Lillibridge over Anderson...if we stuck Brent out there for the next 3 weeks about two to three games per week and he "looked good." I'm not talking about Alexei, just spots that are considered "open" competitions and subject to the "forget past performance and defensive ability/experience we're going purely based on stats here" rule. No s*** it's the same thing as the Lillibridge/Anderson argument, that's what I've been saying all along. People are awarding positions based purely on spring performance, that's the only way you can select Lillibridge over Anderson as the second CF (which Balta did). If we're ignoring defense, experience and past performance then Gordon Beckham, Josh Kroeger and Jack Egbert need to be near the front of the line for the 2B/CF and 12th pitcher jobs.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 05:23 PM) If that's the case, I'll take the guy who has STARTED the games in spring training against guys who are MLB HITTERS over a guy who basically has been pitching in the last couple innings against garbage A/AA/AAA hitters. So Egbert's start doesn't count?

QUOTE (knightni @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 05:23 PM) Was this thread locked for a reason? Not that I know of.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 05:16 PM) Ah, so you are considering the long man spot as the "back of the bullpen?" The 7th spot doesn't have to be a long man, right now Carrasco and Richard have jobs with the big club and either could easily give you 3 or 4 innings if necessary.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 05:07 PM) Ummm...we got Loaiza and Jenks for basically nothing. Or look at someone like Carlos Pena. Just because Jayson Nix had no value to other teams last year doesn't mean he has no future value for infinity. Nix has been out for one week with a strained quad and was 5/7 before today. I don't know how you can say Beckham clearly outplayed him. Egbert hasn't pitched CLEARLY better than Marquez, Poreda and Richard...his sample size is too small to say he's the best option. So what are you saying about Nix, exactly? Do you want to start him at 2B in the majors to build his trade value? Because that's where he's going to build his value, by proving himself at the major league level over a sustained period of time. The fact that Beckham has stayed healthy and mashed puts him well ahead of Nix, injury isn't an excuse. And besides, we're going based on spring performance here, if he's hurt in March that must mean he'll be hurt in May. I'm not picking my starting 2B based on building trade value, I'm taking the guy with the near 1.100 OPS over 22 AB!! As for Egbert, as of right now he's performed the best over the most innings out of all the guys fighting for the potential 7th bullpen spot. If the season started today and we're going purely by spring numbers you'd have to take either Marquez or Egbert and Egbert has done it over more IP. How does his 8 IP sample size compare with Wise's 17 AB or Lillibridge's 26?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 05:01 PM) I think Ozzie cares more what BA does against a quality pitcher in Chris Young than everyone who has come since then. I know if Viciedo hit a homer off David Price or Chris Young, it would be looked at much differently than one off Eckstrom. Van Benscrotum??? LOL I also think that BA needs to prove that he can actually put up a better than 650 OPS playing against tough RHPers. All of those late at-bats were hand-picked to face mostly lefties. How many are in that sample size anyway??? It can't be that many, usually he was a defensive (not offensive) replacement in games. It's spring f***ing training. Balta is right about the quality of pitcher, you tried to argue about clutch situations which don't exist in exhibition games. He had 27 AB in C&L situations last year and 87 in games when there was a 1 R margin and he hit .272/.314/.494/.808. What's the spring sample size looking like?

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 04:53 PM) Do we think the Sox are showcasing McDougal for a trade or does he have what it takes to make this team out of ST and contribute? They're just throwing him out there hoping he figures it out. No one is going to trade for him. Best case scenario is he kicks ass at Charlotte for the first 3 months of the season and the Sox are able to move him for garbage at the deadline and save themselves 2 months worth of salary and his buyout. At this point you're just hoping to dump his salary at mid season, that's what it's come to.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 04:57 PM) The problem with that line of thinking is that Egbert is the 9th starter on the team right now, assuming he's ahead of Broadway. Obviously, Owens and Anderson are struggling. The manager acknowledges/ed it...and the door's open for ANYONE as far as KW and Ozzie are concerned. I would have no problem taking Beckham, although then you're penalizing Getz and Nix and eliminating any chance to get a return on them via trade if neither has the opportunity to demonstrate anything during the regular season. Our best future line-up most certainly has Beckham at the top (first or second) of the order. There's a gaping hole in the back of the bullpen, someone needs to win that spot and if we're going off who's earned it with their spring performance it's Jack Egbert. No one is going to trade for Jayson (DFA) Nix and Chris Getz is the future utility player of this ballclub, both have been thoroughly outplayed by Gordon Beckham this spring, the job should be his.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 04:52 PM) I do think the situations in the games....who is pitching....what's the score, etc., are part of the thinking process, yes. Anyone can swing hard and hit the ball occasionally (see Uribe, Juan), but what does he do when they really need him and the score's tight? It's spring f***ing training. There are no "clutch" moments, the games are all exhibitions and populated by single A crap by the late innings. Balta has a decent argument about the quality of pitcher he's facing but give me a break, when the "score's tight"? Brian hit .296 in Close and Late situations last year, you know, during real games and put up a mid .700 OPS in tie ballgames. His OPS got progressively better as the score got tighter last season. What he does in clutch spring opportunities is irrelevant.

QUOTE (JorgeFabregas @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 04:47 PM) He was ok last year on the bench. .700 OPS--not too bad for a defensive CF. He was the same player as Dewayne Wise last season only right handed, younger, infinitely better defensively and slower. Nothing has changed between now and then.