Kalapse

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 04:44 PM) At least to start the season, yes, if the season started right now I'd take Wise and Lillibridge and start it as a platoon. They are simply playing better than the other options. Fields singles to start the inning. 3/4 for Joshua today. Anderson up again. Someone slap him and tell him to wake up. So are you taking the players who are playing the best right now (apparently 7 singles, a 1/10 BB/K and no playing time in CF is good) or the players who make the team the best it can be? So if the season started today you'd honestly be comfortable giving Lillibridge significant playing time in CF? Seriously? Then you're going with the players who "deserve" to make the team based on their spring performance because there's nothing about Brent Lillibridge that leads me to believe he'll contribute to the major league club this year. If Brent Lillibridge is on your team then I hope Jack Egbert and Gordon Beckham are as well.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 04:39 PM) If Brian Anderson can not get his swing together, he will not fit the "best talent to help the team win" criteria. He will help this team more if he goes down to AAA and gets his swing together. So who are the 2 major league centerfielders on the roster? Wise and who? Can't be Owens, even if Brian's swing is pure s*** he still brings more to the table than Owens. Lillibridge? The infielder who's proven nothing above A ball and hasn't played CF in regular season game in 4 years?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 04:35 PM) If he can't get his swing in gear then he doesn't deserve to be there. And I say that as one of his fans the last few years. Then the question becomes; do you construct your rosters with the best combination of talent to help your team win or with the players who "deserve" to play based on their spring performance?

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 04:32 PM) I'm telling you it's his job to lose... and so far.. rightfully so. That's if you believe in Spring Training competitions.

Lillibridge hasn't even played CF since college and even then he split time between that and SS. How can someone be considered a plus defender at a tough position that he a.) hasn't played in 4 years and b.) never played full time?

Lillibridge is also leading the team in Ks with 10. That's a 1/10 BB/K.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 04:01 PM) Can Gavin actually hit? Or was this anomolous? He's 2 for 45 when it actually matters.

QUOTE (scenario @ Mar 13, 2009 -> 12:30 AM) Wise starting the year in CF and leading off does not mean he will stay in the lineup if he plays poorly. It only means that the Sox would bring Wise north with the team and cut Owens loose. And then if Wise doesn't do the job early in the year, the Sox will elevate someone else to leadoff. Eh. Why put someone in a role in which they're bound to fail? That guy who's second in line for the leadoff spot, likely Getz or Beckham, well he's more qualified for the job RIGHT NOW. That's why it's silly. Sure you can always take the job away from him in May when he's getting on base at a .280 clip but why potentially sacrifice games when you don't have to? If Anderson were 4 years older, a little faster and 7 for 17 on the Spring would we really be talking about him as a potential leadoff hitter? Wise and Anderson are VERY similar hitters.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 12, 2009 -> 11:59 PM) And, of course, the Bill James disciple pops up when it comes to over-analyzing or straight up inventing meaningless stats. Maybe somebody outta get word to KW to sell high on CQ because some stat dork suggests his HR total from a year ago scream fluke because when he hit them they all didn't literally leave the ballpark. lol. Pathetic. And what they make doesn't mean squat. That's like me saying Peter Vecsey is a legitimate NBA columnist/analyst because he's made a fortune over the years when he pretty much does nothing outside inventing/fabricating trades that never come close to happening. I'm not saying all these 'stats' are totally useless. But "just enough" HR is 40-year old virgin territory. Wow, aren't you're flustered. You know nothing about me, don't act like you do. The real question is, where does all your hostility come from? Since we apparently know so much about each other I'm guessing it's an inferiority complex. I don't know what some guy at NSBB posted, I don't read that site. Can't say that I agree with a "just enough" theory either but I'd also never just dismiss something like it off hand. Can't say that I'm not a wee bit concerned by the amount of HR Quentin just got over the wall last year and how his possible loss of power from his wrist injury could cost him some this year. I don't really think that has anything to with stats, that's as close to a case of "eyeballing" as you're going to find. Is there even any statistical analysis involved? Anyone who goes back and watches all of his homeruns from last year could see that probably the majority of them just cleared the fence and make a rash judgment. Hell this sounds closer to something Steve Stone would say than Satan James. You like to rip and degrade people who spend significant time analyzing the numbers of the game, calling them nerdy and insinuating that they don't get enough pussy, probably because they're too busy tapping away at a calculator in their parent's basement. These same people make lots and lots of money doing what they do, a lot of them graduate from Ivy League Universities and get hired by Professional Baseball Organizations as consultants. If you don't think that most every front office has a few of these people influencing their moves then you're mistaken. Obviously someone thinks it's all worth a damn even if they are no talent hacks like Peter Vecsey (a man who works in the entertainment business, I'm not sure his inane blabber directly influences the multi-million dollar deals of a muli-billion dollar industry). Personally I like this side of the game, if someone has a theory on why something is, I love to hear it. In school I was never very good at math so I appreciate these people doing the work for me and I gotta say, after a few years of reading up on a lot of that nerdy crap I think I've actually learned a few things about mathematics and statistics, it's a nice side effect. The funny thing is; I don't know half as much about sabermetrics or advanced statistical analysis as you think I do. I just happen to know a little more than most people on here. I'm a f***ing novice.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Mar 12, 2009 -> 09:06 PM) Why? What does he bring that Wise doesn't? Wise runs better, and as far as I know that's the only thing Owens could potentially do right (although doubts have been cast on that, too) I'd say Owens would also get on base more frequently and aside from Wise's 9 for 9 in SB last season the two of them have had similar success on the basepaths during their careers with Owens being a much higher volume stealer.

Of course he is. 17 AB is more than enough to prove Wise has put his 12 year minor league career in the past and is now a good baseball player. So he puts up a sub .300 OBP in the leadoff spot, so what? He might steal some bases and hit 12 HR while costing the team maybe 12 runs in centerfield.

QUOTE (Chet Lemon @ Mar 12, 2009 -> 08:02 PM) I have never cared for Wise, but hasn't he been getting the job done this spring? I haven't had much time to watch, but at this point, I would give the CF and leadoff job to Wise (until a better fit takes the job from him) and give Beckham the 2B job (again, until someone else takes it from him). A 12 year veteran career minor leaguer doesn't magically become good thanks to 17 March at bats. He's never shown the ability to be a competent major league regular let alone a leadoff hitter, 4 games worth of meaningless AB shouldn't earn him a job. He's a good baserunner with plus speed, a career .309 minor league OBP, below average defensive ability and a horrible BB/K ratio everywhere he's been, sounds like a bench player to me.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 12, 2009 -> 03:51 PM) What the hell is a "just enough" HR or a "lucky" HR? They've got stat categories for this now? I swear some of these turbo nerds need to go outside and get some punani or something. Or get paid 6 figures to analyze numbers.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Mar 12, 2009 -> 02:15 PM) I was wondering if Nick Punto,Frank Cotolonatto and hitting coach Mike Piazza,who were born in the USA can represent Italy because of their Italian heritage,why isn't Carlos Quentin,Matt Garza,Andre Ethier,Evan Longoria,Eric Chavez,Joel Zumaya etc., not representing Mexico since they have Mexican heritage?That would be a pretty strong team IMO...the WBC has been interesting. Well for one, the bolded were all injured last year with 3/4 of them being KEY members of their ballclubs. Their team's aren't going to give them to go ahead to play strenuous baseball in early March. Oh and Quentin was on the preliminary USA roster before withdrawing his name.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 12, 2009 -> 05:00 PM) I've realized that I'm a bigger fan of DWise than a lot of people on here. There's nothing there to like. He's a good baserunner and pretty fast but that's all he's got going for him. I'd rather not have a below average defender with a .309 career minor league OBP anywhere in my lineup regardless of his baserunning prowess. He's never shown any sort of consistency against RHP in his career, there's no reason for me to believe he's going to start hitting them now.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Mar 12, 2009 -> 04:56 PM) Has Wise had any patience in any of his stops before playing with us last year? No. He's always had an awful BB/K ratio and a below average Pit/Pa. This is why I hate Spring Training competitions. Wise getting hot for a few weeks in March doesn't make him a better baseball player, he has a pretty long track record of sucking. He's not just going to change his ways at age 31. Wise saw almost 1000 pitches between '02 and '04 and posted a well below average pit/pa.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Mar 12, 2009 -> 04:48 PM) what other options are there? (assuming Owens has sucked his way out of the spot). Beckham at 2b leading off? (I dont think they are going to bring Beckham until later so they don't start his arb clock) Getz at 2b leading off? One of those with Wise/BA platooning in CF batting 9? I'm thinking that Wise leading off in CF with Getz batting 9th. I just dont think they want Getz leading off, nor Beckham for multiple reasons, one of which listed above. As for the bolded: The Sox don't play that game. If he's ready to go by Opening Day he's gong to make the team, they're not going to send him down for 2 weeks just to postpone his arb clock, that's a loser's mentality and not something KW believes in. The part in red, yes. The last part is probably what they'd go with if the season started today which is a damn shame since DeWayne Wise is one of the last guys I'd want at the top of my lineup and not at all what Kenny Williams described today.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 12, 2009 -> 04:41 PM) Ozzie and Kenny came out today and said that speed doesnt matter to them for a leadoff hitter. I made that post before I read that article (which I posted in the Owens thread). I still think if Wise continues to hit .350+ in the spring he's going to be the leadoff man on Opening Day.

Kenny Williams is no dummy. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,2560763.story

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 12, 2009 -> 03:03 PM) I'm pretty sure that Owens patented teh 4-3 putout. He does it way more often than Jim Thome does. I took a look at the numbers. Owens goes has gone 4-3 in a little less than 1/3 of his total major league PA. Last year Thome went 4-3 less than 1/5 of the time.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 12, 2009 -> 04:20 PM) If Anderson is on the bench so that we can use him as a platoon player, and he's at the end of the order (AKA not leading off), I might be willing to go with him there as a tryout. I don't see any way Wise doesn't leadoff and get 75%+ of the PA in CF. He's fast and bunty that just screams top of lineup hitter, never mind the fact that he's bad.

QUOTE (TLAK @ Mar 11, 2009 -> 06:59 AM) Last 10 left hand throwing IF in MLB history: throws yearID teamID POS Player L 1997 CHA 3B Mario Valdez L 1986 NYA 3B Don Mattingly L 1985 MON 3B Terry Francona L 1984 CHA 3B Mike Squires L 1983 CHA 3B Mike Squires L 1983 NYA 2B Don Mattingly L 1973 OAK 2B Gonzalo Marquez L 1970 CLE 2B Sam McDowell L 1958 CIN 2B George Crowe L 1934 NYA SS Lou Gehrig Mattingly, Squires and Marquez are the only ones to actually start games. I was talking mostly about middle infielders so I'll forget the 3B. There was a grand total of something like 2 INN played at 2B and SS by Mattingly, Marquez, McDowell, Crowe and Gehrig and not a one of them recorded an assist. So never in the history of the game has a left handed thrower recorded an assist from a middle infield position? That's awesome.

Tony Pena Jr. Start him at short, lead him off and move Alexei to center.

I was in #1 (champ) and #2. jackie hayes was the commish of league 2 and he hasn't logged in to Soxtalk since September so that's worrisome.

QUOTE (Cubano @ Mar 10, 2009 -> 09:48 PM) By the way, how long has been Owens a White Sox? They traded for him in February of '05 so 4 years.