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QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 02:28 PM) Out of this group, who should the Sox be looking to overpay? I think him including Iguchi in there is just posturing. The market for second basemen isn't good at all. Adam Kennedy and Marcus Giles just signed contracts, and neither got a contract of a better annual value than $4 million per year. Unless Iguchi has a crazy good year with the bat, I can't see him getting more than $5 million per year. Jermaine Dye will probably get paid by somebody, but is he the kind of guy you want to sign for 4-5 years? He's looking at his last big contract, so I doubt a three year deal would lock him up. He's also on his way to becoming a DH -- he just seems slower and slower in the field every year. He'll be 33 before the season starts, and is coming off of his best year ever by a long shot. I mean, his OPS in 2006 was close to 200 points better than his career OPS. You could make the argument for Buehrle if he's able to bounce back to his pre-July-2006 form, but even then, his way of 'getting by' is more of an exception than a rule. And I can see a scenario where the Sox -- with this new plethora of minor league pitching talent* -- are saving for the time when Johan Santana hits the market. Because I'd say the odds of it happening are extremely strong. And if the Sox can have two-three of these pitching prospects pan out, they'll certainly be able to afford giving Johan $20 million per year. I just don't want to see Iguchi test the market, only bad could come of that. He seems like the easiest to sign during the season and is only going to cost you more if he does hit free agency. He's going to be the hardest of the 3 impending free agents to replace with so few options out there in free agency and no one within the organization capable of taking over that spot. I just imagine that if Tadahito does find his way to free agency that someone will offer him more money and years than the Sox had anticipated simply because of how hard it is to find a 2B these days and the amount of teams out there with money to spend and a whole at second. If it's posturing then cool I have no problem but if he really does want Tadahito to go out there and see what he can get on the market, I think KW is going to be surprised at just how much it's going to cost him to retain his 2B when other teams are involved.

QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 02:17 PM) I figured in a thread debating hof status that would of been clear, good enough for hof status if you will I stopped assuming anything on here a looooong time ago. After your clarification though, it makes sense.

QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 01:54 PM) exactly what years are you talking about hall of fame wise. Hes had some nice power numbers some years and has dabbled at 300 for some years but hes .17 below 300 career and post 30 and not even half way to 500 hrs. Those are not hof numbers. When I think hof I think of dominating at your position for an extended period of time. You used the word "good" not "hall of fame caliber".

QUOTE(bmags @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 01:48 PM) there comes a point where "overpaying" becomes paying. And there comes a point where "overpaying" becomes a necessity, like when player contracts are running out and your minor league system is one of the worst in baseball and in possibly the worst shape in team history.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 01:18 PM) This is nothing more than a public stance in order to not raise expectations in case things don't work out in the long run. KW did the same thing with Garland and Contreras and got them to sign. It went to another level with Konerko, but he also resigned. This is the way KW plays his cards. Stop b****ing and moaning about it, because so far it has been quite effective. So let me get this straight, KW is only saying these things for the fans so they don't get upset but in doing so he's upsetting the fans whom should not be getting upset over these comments because he's only saying these upsetting things to keep the fans from getting upset?

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 12:44 PM) What is our payroll for 2007 going to be? Right around $100M, a little less I believe. Just looking at a list of the probably free agents following the '07 season, Tadahito Iguchi is going to be the #1 free agent at possibly the weakest position in baseball right now. Luis Castillo, Marcus Giles, Mark Grudzielanek and I suppose Mark Lorretta are the only other decent 2B that will be available. If the Sox do allow Tadahito to test the free agent market, it could turn out disasterous for them. There are no internal replacements for Tad and no real replacements through free agency, this team could be incredibly weak up the middle in '08 which doesn't bode well for a team looking to compete for a Championship. It would be in KW's best interest in get Iguchi locked up as soon as possible even if it means overpaying, you need to do that every once in a while for position players.

Just going based off recent history and team payrolls, I don't see any signs that player contracts will be going down this offseason, if anything we could see an increase in money for position players which is something that we didn't really see last season. Half the league's teams still have a surplus of money and a whole lot of expiring old contracts out there. If KW is banking on a reduction in player contracts this offseason (which I doubt he is) then he's going to be pretty damn disappointed when Dye and Iguchi get offered some big money to go elsewhere. Iguchi shouldn't be a tough sign anyway, the guy has lived in Schaumburg for the past few seasons and from what I've heard from people in the area he really loves it here. It's not like he's an elite player either so he isn't going to be a huge commodity on the market this offseason so KW would probably be best off offering him something right now maybe a bit higher than he would normally offer and I really think Iguchi would take. (3 years, $6M-$7M per w/ 4th year vesting option) Because there's always that one team out there with a little money to spend and a whole at one a particular position that would be willing to throw some above value deal at your free agent players.

For anyone that wanted to read the whole story, this is only a segment from a Joe Cowley article printed today. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-sox18.article

QUOTE(fathom @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 11:19 AM) I know I'm quite the pessimist, but does it seem to others like there is a terrible aura surrounding this organization right now? It seems like it's going to get ugly during the season with the Buehrle contract talk, etc. Well considering Williams' history of degrading free agents in their final year with the team and a few years after they walk I'm sure this has a good chance of getting incredibly ugly, of course if Buehrle wants he can prevent any ugliness from happening by just staying classy and not getting into a war of words with KW in the media. I just wish the people in power within this organization would just cut the bulls***, it seems every other day we have a whole new set of quotes from these guys that just makes you cringe.

If there's one position the Sox can't afford to lose a starter it's on the infield, there's NO ONE that could fill Iguchi's spot internally. This organization sure seems to love to talk though, I'm not sure I've ever seen a more outspoken coaching staff/front office in any sport and it's really starting to get annoying.

QUOTE(Rex Kicka** @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 10:49 AM) I don't understand how a three year contract is a bad thing for Buehrle at a market rate. If the contracts are inflated now, just wait for three more years, and they'll be in the stratosphere. If he's young and has seven good years ahead of him on the mound, wouldn't it make sense to get 11 a year for three years and be able to get 20-22 a year for the four that follow? It doesn't really work that way, player contracts are more cyclical than anything else, years ago we had contracts being handed out to Kevin Brown, Mike Hampton and Darren Dreifert (just to name a few) that were just insane. A year later and the contracts for pitchers was back down in a more reasonable place. These bloated contracts are coming from a surplus of cash that a few teams have right now so they want to spend, 2-3 years from now the Ted Lilly's of the world will likely be making $7M a year again like they're supposed to. It's in Buehrle's best interests now to get as much guaranteed money over as many years as possible now as he can because of how out of whack the market is. If Buehrle and his agent feel player contracts are going to go up even more 3 or 4 years from now then he should take a 5 or 6 year contract form someone worth $13-$16M per and get an out clause installed. No doubt in my mind they could get a team to include a clause in the contract that would allow him to opt out of his contract after 3 or 4 years into the deal, a few of the players this offseason have received such clauses and Buehrle is of the caliber of player that team's go out of their way to make happy.

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 02:14 AM) Is the lefty Danks? That's Buehrle.

QUOTE(bad at best @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 05:27 PM) This is kinda off-topic a bit. but still about Uribe. I cant stand to watch Uribe swing a baseball bat, i will actually turn the channel during his at-bats. Despite that he knocks out 20 hrs a year. He clearly has pop in his bat. Why has no batting coach ever gotten through to him and made him adapt a real swing that doesnt break every rule that every 12 year old is taught and actually works. I think with some guidance and discipline he could be an offensive stud instead of my opportunity to see whats on "ESPN classic". One hitting coach has gotten through to Juan, his name is Walt Hriniak and he is a legend.

Bronze Titan: Big Money: Crisco Tanker: Hispanic Dusty:

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 04:13 PM) That he didn't do much last year? Uh, I just made it up. If he turns out to be Crede -- well, that's not exactly optimal, and it probably doesn't bode well for next year, either. Actually it would bode well for the Sox. If Anderson follows Crede's career path exactly that means next year he'll be close to league average since Crede in his second shot with the Sox was actually pretty effective at the plate sporting a 94 OPS+ as a 25 year old in 2003.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 03:39 PM) The NL has some very good hitters in it. Which is why the home run he gave up to Albert Pujols is understandable but to give up homeruns to Carlos Lee and Scott Rolen on 0-2 counts is just inexcusable. A 2 run HR to a crippled Edmonds on a 3-2 count is never pretty but you're right the other greats of the NL got to him such as Ronny Paulino, J.J. Hardy, Brandon Phillips, Ronny Belliard and Jimmy Rollins.

QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 03:50 PM) And the only one in that group making more than $11 million was Millwood. $11 milions would have put mark ahead of all of them. Yes, he is better than them, but that much better? I like Mark, but he had better be the old Mark if he wants to get better than $11 million at years end. If he performs like Ted Lilly again, he will be lucky to get that. As of July of last year he was MUCH better than all of them. $3M per better. Look at their ages compared to Mark's as well there's no reason why Buehlre should accept a 3 year deal when Guys like Millwood and Burnett are getting 5.

QUOTE(BobDylan @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 07:05 AM) The Departed was a remake of Internal Affairs. It doesn't claim not to be. They even gave Siu Fai Mak a writing credit. I haven't seen it, but the trusty people at IMDB rate The Departed higher than Internal Affairs. I have a hard time imagining somebody who's only been directing film since 1998 can out-do Martin Scorsese; original, remake, whatever. I will reserve judgment until I see it, though. I'm interested to know about the scene in The Departed when Nicholson's crew meets the Japanese mobsters. In Internal Affairs, was it just reverse--Japanese mobsters meeting with American mobsters? Did the Japanese mobsters rip American mobsters like Nicholson did? I know they embrace the fact that it's a remake, I never hinted otherwise. The Departed is a pretty good movie, I enjoyed watching it and all I guess I was just expecting it to be a more enjoyable watch than Infernal Affairs. I mean Infernal Affairs is done entirely in Cantonese so your stuck reading subtitles throughout much of the action which gives the the Departed an immediate edge in that it's in english. Infernal Affairs also had advantage in that I saw it before watching the Departed so nothing in Scorsese's version really surprised me except maybe the ending which was changed for the American version. As for the scene you mentioned. That particular bust was changed a bit, it was a drug deal not an exchange for microchips and the deal went down between the Japanese Mob boss Sam (Nicholson's character) and the Thai's. It was much more of a friendly Exchange than what we saw in the Departed. With the Thai boss bringing a cigar to Sam as a gift and joking around while the transaction went down elsewhere. Anyway, The Departed in all was a pretty good movie I guess I was just disappointed that it wasn't any better than the original. I recommend you see Infernal Affairs, it's damn good.

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 12:38 PM) My point was that a pitcher who was considered one of the most dominant in the game has only 197 wins, so obviously the criteria for wins has changed. I wasn't necessarily trying to compare the two directly. Buehrle has a pretty damn good ERA for pitching in the AL too though. Wins shouldn't and isn't the only criteria for getting into the hall of fame otherwise Blylevin would have been a first balloter or would atleast have been in there by now seeing as how he has 287 career wins and all. Even if a certain amount of wins automatically got you into the hall of fame a guy like Pedro Martinez would be the exception to any rule, he'd be a first ballot hall of famer even if he finished with 150 wins. You can't always go on one stat and it's historical relevance when judging someone's chances at the hall of fame. QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 12:43 PM) Konerkos only had like 3 good seasons. Try 7.

QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 12:31 PM) Anyone else get an inflated contract around then, or just Millwood from that jackass in Texas? One outsized contract should not set the market rate. At the AS break, Mark started sucking, and was going down hill. Maybe he didn't like the 3 years, but I don't think $11 milliion was lowballing him. It may not have been an attempt to lick his balls, but it wasn't hitting him in them either. Kevin Millwood (31yo): 5 years, $60M +15M signing bonus (RANGERS) AJ Burnett (29yo): 5 years, $55M +6M signing bonus (BLUE JAYS) Jarrod Washburn (31yo): 4 years, 37.5M (MARINERS) Matt Morris (31yo): 3 years, $27.5M +2M signing bonus (GIANTS) Esteban Loaiza (34yo): 3 years, $21M +3M signing bonus (ATHLETICS) Kenny Rogers (41yo): 2 years, $18M (TIGERS) As of the All Star break last season Mark Buehlre was younger and a much better pitcher than all of these guys. One bloated contract probably shouldn't set market value for players but it almost always does, hell Jim Hendry is being blaimed for a lot of this after giving Howry and Eyre their insane contracts that same offseason.

Ozzie: Haeger:

QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 10:19 AM) With all the teams handing out $10 million+ contract this season, how many of them are left or have moeny left to do so next season? Yeah the Yankmees and the Mets have cash coming out their wazoo, but somewhere down the line, the teams are gonna run out of money. Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, White Sox, Cardinals, Rangers, Mets, Giants, Mariners, Padres, Dodgers, Angels, Phillies, Astros, Blue Jays, Orioles and Tigers are all teams that should have the necessary funds available this offseason to make a run at Mark Buehlre. I'm sure not all of them will but they all certainly could, either due to bloated payrolls, large expiring contracts or just a willingness to spend money.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 12:11 AM) I don't really think I'm exaggerating when I say the Departed is one of the best movies I have ever seen... And I thought it was dissappointing, of course I recently saw Infernal Affairs which is basically just the japanese version and a much better movie all around.

That Cubs hat is just hideous.

I just watched yesterday's episode and I must say it was quite good, the show hit a 2 episode skid but got back on track last night.