Kalapse

1999 Rupert Murdoch gives Kevin Brown a 7 year $105M contract which for that market was even more insane than it would be today. He gave the Dodgers 3 very good healthy years and added another 2 severely injury plagued ones before being dealt to the Yankees in 2003 for Jeff Weaver and Yhency Brazoban where he finished his career off pretty pathetically.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jan 16, 2007 -> 02:21 PM) I am surprised at some of the negative comments. Joe Crede is an all-star and gold glove caliber thirdbaseman and was developed in the Sox system. Bad back or not Joe is one of the top thirdbasemen in baseball and continues to improve every year. He didn't sign cheap in this deal and my guess is this is setting the table for more talks on a long term deal. I hope we keep Joe and use Josh Fields in LF and/or the backup 3Bman. Let's value our own players more and appreciate them more is what I would like to see. 1.) He's not an all-star 2.) He is not elite, he ranks somewhere between 10-15 amongst 3B in baseball. He'd be like the 5th best 3B in the NL East if he played for the Phillies that kind of says something about where he ranks in baseball. 3.) This deal has nothing to do with any sort of long term extension, otherwise last year's one year deal would have lead to something more long term. Crede just signed for about what he would have gotten in arbitration it was basically a slam dunk deal. Hell I'd go out on a limb and say that Boras may not have even been present during negotiations instead letting one of his associates hammer out such a deal. In other words he didn't sign cheap and he didn't sign expensively he signed where he was supposed to sign this is how arbitration years work.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jan 16, 2007 -> 02:04 PM) And if that deal doesn't arise, do the Sox just play this game again next year with the plans of trading him or letting him go while getting nothing in return? Hopefully your dream scenario plays out, because I personally don't see the Sox coming out in winners in this. I suppose it would be a Buehrle type scenario, they deal him if the right deal comes along but if they can't agree to a trade they're comfortable with Joe will end up walking after the '08 season. Lets just hope it doesn't come to that.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jan 16, 2007 -> 01:50 PM) Well if that's the case and the Sox don't plan on bending from that opinion, we might as well never mention the words contract and Crede ever again because he's long gone. Pretty sad. Well I came to this realization a few months back when KW was on the Score speaking candidly about Crede, his back and Boras it was pretty apparent then that if Crede didn't follow the Sox' advice and have the surgery that not only would they not sign him long term but he'd also be traded before the '08 season assuming he's healthy enough to trade at the time. If the Sox can deal Joseph for a couple pieces including a major leaguer or 2 they will do it and I will welcome such a trade with open arms no matter how much I love watching Joe at the hot corner. QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 16, 2007 -> 01:51 PM) That is oversimplifying quite a bit. No back surgery is ever a guarantee, any more than therapy is or isn't. Yes, the Sox expressed their desire for the surgery, but that is not the same thin as saying if he had done it, that they would have automatically signed him long term. Crede's back is not the only issue, or even necessarily the main issue, of his future with the team. Fine I'll reword it to better reflect what I was trying to say. The Sox would have been more willing to negotiate a long term deal.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jan 16, 2007 -> 01:45 PM) I recall seeing the rehab Crede's going through is just as effective as the surgery. The surgery requires going under the knife and going through rehab. If the result is the same from both, wouldn't you do the same as Crede's doing? If that's the Sox' case in this deal, that's pretty lame. As KW has mentioned in interviews, the Sox do not believe this. They think surgery will leave him in better condition for the future than just rehabing. It really seemed like if Crede had just gone under the knife the Sox would have been willing to sign him long term.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Jan 16, 2007 -> 01:40 PM) Not every Boras deal is a dragged out slug fest. Crede is not one of Boras' premier clients, and I am certain these are the kind of deals that are his bread and butter. Grab his percentage quickly off a Crede contract and save your time, and your staff's time, for bigger fish. Exactly, anyone who thinks otherwise is just exaggerating the effect Boras has on negotiations.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jan 16, 2007 -> 01:32 PM) He and his agent must of agreed to it also right? Maybe it's a signal he is willing to talk with the team about a long term deal, whatever long term measn these days. I hope KW and Booooras do just that. They agreed to it because they wouldn't have gotten much more in arbitration, it was an incredibly realistic deal considering how much he could have made in front of an arbitrator. There is no underlying meaning to this, it was just a one year deal to avoid arbitration like they did last year.

QUOTE(Colorado Sox Fan @ Jan 16, 2007 -> 01:24 PM) His stats in September 2006 scare me. Maybe it was just a slump. Maybe. We needed him. It's odd his .546 September OPS doesn't come up more often, it certainly seemed like his back was killing him and he couldn't wait to get to the offseason to take care of it.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 15, 2007 -> 11:46 PM) You know, right when I posted that, I thought to myself "I bet they play their first game in February." And wouldn't you know, if someone were to call me out on it, I would have guessed it to be you. It's what I do.

The Sox play the Rockies on February 28th.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 15, 2007 -> 12:10 PM) I will say that I have always loved Beltre, even in the years he's struggled. I thought he may have been a possibility for the Sox this year had KW traded Crede away, but that package never formulated (and thank God it didn't). He had a very solid second half last year, so I'm looking forward to see what kind of year he could have this year. I have forgotten Andy Marte. I'm not a huge fan, but he has some pretty mean power. He's probably a year away from being really good, but he could be solid this year and it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Chad Tracy's in the same ballpark as well. And if you want to delve into players who could play 3B, but don't, you can compare Bill Hall to Crede as well. That's when reaching for players comes into play though, so Hall is as far as I'm going to go on that topic. I think we have atleast proven that Crede is not elite. Just thinking about this a bit more it's pretty funny that if Crede played for the Phillies he'd be the worst 3B in his division.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jan 15, 2007 -> 01:22 PM) You were approved. Join us in the game thread next week...that goes for everyone! Perhaps I'm the only one like this but for football (unlike baseball) I can't be distracted by things like laptops and game threads and such, I tend to do a lot of gestating, punching and screaming, the game needs my full attention. Baseball on the other hand I can just sit back with my laptop and bulls*** in a game thread about how s***ty the Sox are playing. I'm weird like that.

Outstanding, this way they know going in that the 7th is the final season so they can base the story around it being the finale and we can actually get a good final episode unlike some shows that just get jerked around and don't get a proper send off.

Can anyone with Insider just summarize Gammon's blog entry, I have no use for mlbtraderumors.com.

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jan 15, 2007 -> 11:11 AM) Hilarious when it started...then not so much...I guess you can only rip off MST3K so much... I haven't seen it in about a year but they have had some excellent shows, I imagine the format would get pretty stale after a while especially when they're mocking low quality sporting events with very little entertainment value on their own.

They also s*** canned 'Cheap Seats' on ESPN Classic which I always enjoyed watching. Apparently the Sklar brothers aren't funny which comes as a surprise to me.

I had SportsCenter on in the background and that segment came on, I had this overwhelming urge to start slitting things. I usually can't stand Rick Telander but his quote during the segment was the only intelligent thing I heard over the entire 10 minutes or so.

Joe Crede 2007 ~ Ed Sprague 1997 With a higher batting average than Sprague's .228 but a lower OBP than Sprague's .306.

QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Jan 15, 2007 -> 01:16 AM) There, I fixed it for you. Use proper English next time. Thank you Jerry Angelo.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 15, 2007 -> 01:04 AM) Adrian Beltre - defensively, yes. Offensively, he needs to learn to not hit .260 Garret Atkins - I'd have to research, and I'm going off of what I remember, so I'll either have to agree by default or not comment If Brandon Inge could hit for any sort of average while keeping the power, he'd be better as well. Also, as mediocre defensively as Glaus is, he is in that neighborhood too. Alex Gordon is (likely) going to be better soon as well. There are others who are probably borderline too. Crede's good, but he's not going to be worth the contract he gets, because Boras is friggin good. On Beltre, defensively I agree with you they're basically equals. On the offensive side he's had a few years where he's managed 50+ walks which is basically twice as good as Crede, he also possesses better power than Joe (though he hasn't really showed it since his career year) and despite his abysmal batting average he still has a knack for knocking guys in. He's a year younger than Crede and has no nagging injuries so he will hopefully build on these pluses in the coming years (entering his prime) and become a pretty damn good all-around player. My very quick Garret Atkins scouting report: 26 year old who possesses a mean power stroke which is still developing, RBI machine (120 last season and 89 in his rookie season ('05)), good all around hitter but most importantly he has an excellent eye, the guy knows how to get on base (unlike Joseph). On the defensive side I'd say he's roughly average at this point in his career. I totally forgot about Inge next year should be pretty telling as to whether he's THAT good or not, if he manages to duplicate his numbers (plus raise his average) while maintaining his excellent defense I'd definitely put him right up there with Crede. Agree on Gordon and Glaus as well. Others to consider: Edwin Encarnacion (young and getting better), Mike Lowell and Freddy Sanchez (I have no idea if he's as good as he was last season.)

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 15, 2007 -> 12:18 AM) Crede is not a "big time" player. To Sox fans he is because what he did for us in 2005, but in reality, he's not one of the five-six best thirdbasemen in all of baseball. Yet he's going to get paid like one. Just in case this point is debated, here's a list of 3B off the top of my head who could be considered equal to or better than Crede. Miguel Cabrera Alex Rodriguez Scott Rolen Aramis Ramirez Dan Wright Chipper Jones Eric Chavez Ryan Zimmerman Adrian Beltre Garret Atkins

QUOTE(Beltin @ Jan 14, 2007 -> 07:40 PM) How did Jon Berry end up doing in his career anyway? He never made it past high A ball, out of baseball at the age of 25.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 14, 2007 -> 06:32 PM) Trading Carlos Lee allowed us to sign most of those guys as we dumped a lot of salary with that trade. Lee = $8M Iguchi = $2.3M Pierzynski = $2.5M Hernandez = $3.5M ------- Total = $8.3M

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 14, 2007 -> 04:56 PM) Oh come on, that throw hit Berrian in the hands...seriously, a QB's allowed to be off by less than a foot, still hit the receiver in the hands, with no defender around, and expect a ball to be caught. His only mistake to my eyes was the fumble, and an occasional mis-read of the blitz (but, he did a much better job of actually throwing the ball away when the blitz came instead of forcing a throw somewhere). And on your second point...more specifically, if the defense plays like this against the saints, then they'll lose by 2 scores. The key to that game? The Bears must generate turnovers. If the Saints hold onto the ball, with the way the Bears defense is playing right now (bending pretty readily), I think the Saints will break through. The Saints...are coming... Agree 100% with all of this.

QUOTE(knightni @ Jan 13, 2007 -> 11:01 PM) YES! Remember the opening scene with the family eating chicken for Sunday dinner with the Padres game on? The first time I saw it they totally got me, I thought it was a commercial for chicken or some s*** then they started vomiting up blood and such. Scared the hell out of me. Bastards.