BlackBetsy

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 09:01 AM) 1) Who would be interested in Vazquez, assuming we basically give him away to the top bidder? 2) If we let Uribe go, is Getz then our "supersub" or do we find another player through trade or FA? Bring Ozuna back? Find another Cuban, lol? 3) Is there serious consideration being given to either Anderson or Fields ever being regular players for the Sox again? 4) Would we really want Garland back? Would he even want to come back? 5) Would anyone be interested in signing Freddy Garcia again...if his contract was almost 100% incentives-based? 6) What if Cabrera is offered arbitration and accepts it? What then, lol? It will be like Kiffin and Al Davis! Doubt that happens, though. 7) Who's the starting 3B if you shed Uribe and sign Hudson and a pitcher? 8) Where do you put Ramirez next year? SS seems the most logical, since it's easier to find a 2B more cheaply and his offensive potential is a huge net plus coming from that position. (1) I'm assuming the usual suspects, which have to be East Coast b/c of his no-trade clause/he wants to be as close to Puerto Rico as possible: Washington (old franchise, NL), Philadelphia, Atlanta, Baltimore, Florida (if they want to take on salary thinking they can make a run), Pittsburgh. My thought is that if a team takes his entire salary, they can have him for a Lance Broadway-type prospect. (2) Getz becomes the supersub. But supersubs are cheap on the market. (3) Anderson, no. I think Fields is one option in spring training. (4) I think we would. They guy is a winner, although he may want to stay near home in So. Cal. Don't know what the Angels think about him. I don't think bridges were burned with Garland. (5) I would...but he has to have a 92 mph fastball. He can compete for half a season at 88 mph, but the league will catch up with him. (6) Cabrera is SOOOO gone. No way he accepts arbitration. He's a Dodger or a Red Sox or somewhere else next year. (7) Fields probably going into the season with trade help on the way - you could pick up an Adrian Beltre mid season on the cheap. (8) Shortstop without hesitation. Lineup would look like this: Hudson AJ Quentin Thome Dye Konerko Ramirez Swisher Fields Rotation Buehrle Floyd Danks Garland Richard

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 09:36 AM) But, if KW can come up with Danks and Floyd, who's to say he can't find two better options with $20 million plus that would be going to Vazquez and Contreras? We are so lucky to have Floyd and Danks at reasonable payroll levels, they are the ONLY things that make Vazquez and Contreras and Buehrle a possibility in the rotation. That said, we had about $55 million sunk in Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Garland and El Duque...which is just TOO much for any team, except for the top 2-3 payrolls in MLB. We can rationalize that Vazquez is okay as an innings-eater and 4th/5th starter, but at $11.5 million, there simply are too many better and more logical options out there, whether through trade or FA. +4. I love it when you analyze. Free up $11.5 million for Vazquez, $4.5 million for Uribe, $8 million for Cabrera and $5 million for Crede and you've got $29 million. If insurance pays off 60% of Contreras, you've got $35 million. Even with raises to folks like Jenks, Swisher etc., the Sox would have a bunch of money to spend in the offseason if they wanted to keep the budget flat (I'm assuming they do). I think the Sox will have to pay Thome his full salary next year (i.e., he gets a $8 million increase from the payroll perspective as Philly will not contribute another $8 million to the option year), so my guess is that they have probably $20 million or so to throw at free agents if they dumb Vazquez, Uribe, Crede & Cabrera. That will land them pretty much any of the big names on the market, or even two lesser names. Think Orlando Hudson at $8 million or so and Jon Garland at $11 million.

Let me distill what my thoughts are about Javy Vazquez and see if people agree. Scouts rave about Javy Vazquez's stuff. He's apparently got three plus pitches. He produces excellent sabremetrical "peripheral" stats - low BB/9, high K/9. He can be dominant at times and make it look easy. No one on the list questions his talent. But it is unmistakeable that Vazquez has performed poorly when the Sox need him. I've scatterplotted Vazquez's ERA vs. his team's winning percentages and there is a clear pattern - his ERA rises as his team's lot improves. His last four starts speak for themselves. It's the way he loses. He gets flustered when a call goes against him. He seems to never be able to pitch around an error. He has blow up innings that tend to end games for the Sox. But more than that, he loses because he shows little or no aggressiveness. He tosses his plus fastball right down the middle and it gets hammered. He gives up on his breaking pitches. And hitters are comfortable in the box against him - he's apparently totally unwilling to hit a batter to send a message. Or even pitch inside to send a message. And then, when he loses, he doesn't seem to care. Just another day at the office - he punches the clock by taking the ball and punches out by giving it back. No passion, no fire. Then he pours salt in our wounds by saying he's going to the beach and doesn't care what we think about him. Not only does he choke, but he doesn't care that he does. I think as Sox fans, we are indisposed to guys like Vazquez. We'd prefer a guy who goes out and fights with bad stuff by intimidating hitters and bears down in tough situations. El Duque had a bad season ERA wise for the Sox but we loved him because he pitched out of tough situations and knocked down hitters. We like fighters who care whether the team wins or loses. That's why we love AJ, why we love Uribe (who dove into the stands). It's also why the Yankees love Jeter. And, at the end of the day, it's the reason why we don't like Vazquez.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 04:57 PM) I disagree. Contreras is never healthy, meaning that the Sox would have massive holes in the #4 and #5 spots. Richard *might* be able to step up in one of those next season, but that still leaves one open. Vazquez is a pretty good #4 and an excellent #5 starter. A guy like that is useful in *getting* to the postseason. The key here is to use him out of the bullpen if the Sox make the post-season again next year. Bring Back Jon Garland. At least he knows how to win.

Chalk this one up to another Vazquez choke...fully expected to lose this one. Hope we can scratch a couple across against Kazmir tomorrow and Mark is Game 2 ALCS / Sunday vs. CLE Mark Buehrle. I'd start Swisher / Anderson in LF / CF against Kazmir...although I don't think BA is going to have much of a chance against Kaz. BUT...isn't Kazmir hurting a little bit, and that's why they held him out of Game 1?

I wish Oswalt was in there fore AJ speaking of Houston pitchers.

QUOTE (sayitaintso @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 05:28 PM) Why did we trade for Griffey again? KW knew Quentin would get hurt and defense is overrated.

Paulie's never seen an Astros reliever he didn't like.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 05:23 PM) We REALLY NEEDED to find a way to get 2 lefties into the first 3 games. Tampa Bay is VERY vulnerable against lefties. It's possible Danks doesn't even get a crack at it. I'd hate for that to be the case, but its possible. Kazmir, when ON, can be beyond nasty. Isn't Danks starting Game 3?

Didnt Wheeler put the 3 guys on before Paulie's Granny in Game 2?

QUOTE (The Critic @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 05:20 PM) Well, to be fair, everyone won the 2004 World Series. ....except the Cubs. And, by extension, everyone lost the 2007 World Series except the Red Sox because now their fans are worse than the Yankees.

Two bloops and a blast and we are tied. Or 6 walks in a row. Or three walks, a sac fly and a triple. Or a catcher's interference, reach on error, hit by pitch, suicide squeez and ground rule double. Or three straight bombs. Or two K's, a dropped third strike, a stolen base, a double off the fence, and a jack. Strike that last one, Ozuna's gone.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 05:14 PM) His contract is not good. Being a high payroll team makes it ok for us IMO. I don't think he is the worst thing you can have going in the 5th spot. He just should never sniff a playoff game. Get his 200 solid innings and live with it in the regular season. However, after today, he has to be gone. No way he can still be on this team next year. Jon Garland has about the same contract this year, and a higher ERA and a lot fewer strikeouts than Vazquez. However, he went 14-8 because he doesn't poop his diapers whenever the Angels give him a lead. His inflated ERA is because when he sucks, he just sucks really bad.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 05:15 PM) And this is why we have to start Javy. We have no better options. Forfeit and rest the pen.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 05:05 PM) I still can't stop thinking of what a s*** head Javy is. I just can't get over it. What about the loss to the Yankees, the loss to the Twins or the loss to the Indians failed to prepare you for this?

Does not compute...asking for 3 wins from Buehrle & Danks (games 2, 3 and 5) is not an attack on Richard.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 03:07 PM) Lets get Javy a plane ticket to Puerto Rico right now. +2 Leave him off the ALCS roster.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 02:35 PM) I predict Javy for Troy Glaus trade this offseason, with Joe Crede signing with the Cardinals. Troy Glaus is kind of dicey for third base at this stage of his career. How about Javy for Melvin Mora?

This game is not over, but it's already hilarious. D-Weezy with gratuitous 2-strike three-run homer, Vazquez being Vazquez pitching meatballs to the Rays' best hitter and giving up a lead IMMEDIATELY like the lead is a frickin' hot potato.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 02:31 PM) Let's offer him to Pittsburgh then. My guess is he's pitching somewhere in the NL next season. Pittsburgh, Philadephia, Washington, Atlanta or Florida is my guess. Javy wants to be near his family...I mean beach...in Puerto Rico.

Downside of this game so far: D Wise is likely to get meaningful time on the 2009 White Sox. Upside of this game so far: Javier Vazquez is sooooooooo traded off this team.

LOL Vazquez is Vazquez.

QUOTE (CryptviLL @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 02:20 PM) time for javy to keep a solid pace, to 8 innings, we get 8 innings and 1 run out of him, we shud win this game Fixed your post...have you seen the bullpen lately?

QUOTE (DABearSoX @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 02:19 PM) can someone please tell Javy he is down by 5 runs? And pitching on a last place team in September?

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