hitlesswonder

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 08:52 PM) The point i keep making is...right now in this market, it certainly doesn't seem like anyone will actually give up 2 talented players for Konerko. And especially not the Angels, who's prospects everyone keeps drooling over. Yeah -- I don't know if anyone would or not. People obviously are more loathe to deal prospects than they used to be. But even if the opportunity isn't there now, if Konerko plays well to start the season, a team like NYY, LAA, or AZ might be willing to pony up 2 B prospects for him. And then the Sox can try to find their Carlos Pena or Jack Cust.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 08:11 PM) We are also talking about a 24 year old compared to a 31 year old. Kotchman has put up solid numbers in everyone of the stops he has made, and I see no reason to think he is anywhere close to his peak. And the Sox would free up a decent chunk money if they can find someone to spend it on. Not to knock Konerko, but he's one of the few tradeable assets the Sox have. If the Sox can turn him into 2 talented players, that's a good deal.

QUOTE(bschmaranz @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 06:10 PM) Well the Royals are tempting to any Japanese player right now because their manager has been a manager in Japan before. But Will Carroll did say that someone made a big offer and he's signing somewhere tonight. Carroll said he thinks it was the Cubs that made the offer -- with so many places saying the Cubs have him locked up, I think it's pretty clear who he's signing with.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 04:03 PM) BTW, I promise after he decides that I'll reveal what I've been told. Until then, I will hold out hope that the Sox get him. Hearing that mlb.com interview with Ozzie does give me a little more optimism, but I'd still put Fukudome as 90 pct likely to be playing for the Cubs. BP said they thought there was one really big offer for Fukudome -- and they thought it was from the Cubs. And Hendry did say he would outbid anyone for him. Plus, Fukudome strikes out. He's not the player Williams is talking about. given what he said, I'm guessing they are targeting David DeJesus or Crisp.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 03:49 PM) The Sox really need a OBP guy. Sox needs>>>>Cubs missing out on other players. Oh, and add a few hundred >>> The best thing about signing a CF is that it would lessen the chances of the Sox trading Gio + more for Coco Crisp. So, from that perspective, I hope the sign somebody...

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 10:37 PM) I completely disagree with this. The most success we've had with signing guys is when they're already under contract. Basically, it's Hahn's specialty. I think Hahn would be a god GM. That's my positive post of the day.

QUOTE(juddling @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:22 AM) Just heard Joe Cowley on the Score talking about the Cabrera trade and he gave Kenny a bit of credit. Joe said the Sox had the best 4 person package for Cabrera on the table but the Marlins came back tried to throw Dontrelle Willis in the package and would take another couple of prospects for him. Ozzie told KW that Willis is only throwing 85 mph and not 95 like he should be and there is something wrong with him....he didn't want Willis. Kenny went back to the Marlins but the Marlins said that Willis was to be part of the package or no deal. Kenny decided not to give up prospects for a pitcher who was hurt or lost whatever he had. OK Soxtalk....discuss When did willis ever throw 95MPH? This is pure spin. Anyway, we'll see who's right about Willis -- Ozzie Guillen or Dave Dombrowski. And forget props to Kenny -- if he wanted Cabrera and knew he did last July he should have been building the damn farm system through trades so he had enough prospects to deal.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:06 AM) Bruce just said don't count the White Sox out just yet on Fuku. Just like the Sox were in on Hunter, Cabrera, and called the Twins about Santana?

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:05 AM) Fukudome might be a better choice at less money, but if that doesn't happen, Multiple places have said the Cubs topped San Diego's offer -- Fukudome is going to be a Cub.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 09:47 AM) You mean that article that came out the same time as another one saying he's looking at a Pads offer? And right after another article saying the Cubs were looking elsewhere? I don't consider anything like that to be a done deal or even close. He's not off the table until he's off the table. His offer from the Cubs righht now is supposedly over $40M for 4 years. I doubt the Sox will top that.

QUOTE(Jeremy @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:53 AM) Just because I look at it in context. Kenny has already decided to try and win now and has made a number of moves that have him locked in there pretty well. I can't blame him for failing to do a complete 180 at this point. Going for it or not, signing Linebrink was not a good move. If they are going for it, that $5M would have been better used to bring in an impact position player like Jones or Fukudome. If they aren't going for it, signing a declining middle reliever to a contract with a NTC and losing a pick is not a good plan. Quentin seems like a reasonable acquisition either way.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 11:27 PM) Why be mad at Dye? Be mad at KW for his inability to keep us contenders. Dye should be pissed if KW lied to him. I'm not mad at Dye. I'm just saying a smart GM would take advantage of the situation, get Dye to waive his NTC, and do what they should have done and deal off veteran players.

QUOTE(3 BeWareTheNewSox 5 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 11:23 PM) A couple different reports that Dye called up Kenny this afternoon, mad that whatever Kenny promised when Dye signed wasn't getting done. I'm sure he probably guaranteed Hunter. I think it was Cowley and Levine who were near Kenny at the time and reported on it Fine. Then get him to waive his NTC and trade him someplace else. And start rebuilding.

QUOTE(soxpride77 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:25 PM) Hall wouldn't cost that. He didn't have that great of a year last year, and he is not a superstar. I'm all for Tony Gwynn Jr. I think he is ready to break out if he gets regular at bats. the Brewers have too crowded an outfield. Hall would cost that. He can put up an .800 OPS at SS and is under contract for 3 years.

QUOTE(whitesox61382 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 05:17 PM) However, you win championships with pitching and in most cases pitching that you develop. I think if you look at the staffs of World Series winners the last few seasons you'll see that most of those staff were acquired rather than developed.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 02:27 PM) Fine...but you didn't back up your statement...you just said it. Give me a reason and maybe it'll make sense. At least I tried to back up my reasoning... Given the sample size issues around Cabrera in the 1 or 2 slot, it's impossible to tell if he has to be in the #2 slot to hit well. I don't know why he would. If you look at his 3 year splits for batting order his numbers are all over the place. The key point is that the dropoff from even a major-league average CF to Owens in offense easily dwarfs whatever batting magic Cabrera would lose from moving from #2 to #1. And if Cabrera really needs to hit #2 then hit Quentin #1 or #1. Put the 9 best hitters you can in the lineup.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 01:16 PM) So, you would rather have this: 1. Owens 2. O'Cab Than this: 1. O'Cab 2. Quentin Seriously? I realize that having some speed at the top is good, but its not the end all of everything. I think that the lineup is far, far better with Quentin in it than Owens, and that is far, far more important than having more speed from your leadoff guy. Gaah. I hate the mindset that there must be a Leadoff Hitter that is your official base stealer. A team with Rowand or Fukudome in CF is going to have a better offense and score more runs than the same team with Owens in CF.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 10:58 AM) I offer significant disagreement with this statement. Hopefully this won't come off as too negative, but I think the current Sox team is no better than the 2007 version. You can expect better production at SS, but LF and CF are unimproved. I like the trade for Quentin, but he's a young player coming off surgery who struggled mightily in 2007. You can't expect league average LF performance from him. CF is still bad with Owens (he's not an upgrade over Erstad). I don't see any offensive position other than SS where the Sox can expect improved performance. And they should expect age-related declines at RF,1B,C, and DH. The bullpen might be better just because it could hardly get worse. In the rotation, as fathom points out, moving from Garland to Floyd is a huge drop in performance. Buehrle and Vazquez excelled last season; it's doubtful they will be quite as good in 2008. From an overall perspective, I don't think the Sox have improved. At this point, I think they would fight KC for 4th place like last season. But, the season hasn't started yet. I'm sure Williams wants to make at least one more significant acquisition.

QUOTE(NCsoxfan @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 08:48 AM) I know this is totally below market, but Rowand still seems like he is "worth" maybe a 3 year 25 mil contract... In the next few years I see him being a .280 hitter, 20ish HR's and 75 RBI's, with his defense slowly declining Just think there is NO way he's worth 10mil a year A .280 hitter with 20 HRs in CF is probably worth $10M a year. Torii Hunter's 3 year averages make him a .280 hitter that smacks 27 HRs a year and he'll be getting $18M a year.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 01:32 AM) The Eric Gordon anger is odd. Yeah he's a liar and not really a good person, but he's a great player and one of many great players that Bruce lost out to in recruiting. It happens. Saying he's not a really good person seems over the top -- maybe you know something about him I don't. He changed his mind about which University he wanted to attend. It's not a big deal -- other people do the same thing all the time. Athletes transfer and it's no big deal. Sure, he should have told UI as soon as he knew he wasn't coming. But that's a pretty minor misdeed, I think. And even if he had, you know that people would still be seething over being jilted. The hatred is really just about choosing Indiana over Illinois. Edit: Actually -- looking at the UI Scout board, there's really almost no posts wishing Gordon ill. I think I'll not look at IB and just be happy with that.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 11:49 PM) Crede should fetch more than a 27 yr old utility player who hit .230 last year. If that's all we get for Crede, it's a case of KW trading someone a year late. Should he? With his back he's a huge gamble -- for all anyone knows he's a .600 OPS player going forward. His numbers last year were worse than Burke's numbers. Really, I think Burke would be a decent return talent-wise but I'm not sure he's a good fit for the Sox. I was guessing Crede's trade-value was at the A-ball reliever level. We already know KW should have traded Crede last offseason, but that's hindsight.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 09:21 PM) I think it's definitely the case. Why? I guess it could be, but I can't think of a worse way to develop a young right handed hitter than sporadic at-bats in a platoon with a lefty hitter. Especially a lefty hitter that probably will produce a .600 OPS.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 07:45 PM) We should add this guy I'm pretty sure it's official Rule 5 draft policy that Sox leave a talented reliever unprotected. Isn't it?

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 04:12 PM) I wouldn't want to give up Quentin for Crisp straight-up, let alone Quentin plus someone. I wouldn't either, and hopefully it doesn't happen. I just wouldn't be shocked if it did since BOS seems to be demanding a lot for Crisp and Crisp is mentioned daily as a Sox trade target by the media.

QUOTE(soxfaninpa @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 03:56 PM) So who gets traded for Crisp then? I've read the red sox are looking for good prospects. We wouldn't actually give up Gio/Egbert/Fields/DLS for Coco Crisp, right? Because if that's the case they can keep him. I'd give them Kyle McCulloch and a choice of a reliever. I don't think he's worth much more than that It's possible Quentin gets shipped to BOS along with another good prospect for Crisp. And I do think it's possible the Sox would give up a good prospect plus Quentin for Crisp. BOS wants a good position player and top pitching prospect supposedly and the White Sox really seem to like Crisp a lot (at least in the media).