hitlesswonder

Williams needs to be fired if the Sox are going to contend again. There's really nothing else to say at this point. Maybe someone can e-mail me when there's a new GM and I can start watching the games again.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 10:42 AM) Its nice to see IU going bowling, but its going to take alot to take down the big ten title. Especially in the next few seasons. I don't think anyone is going to beat out tOSU for the title for the next 3 or 4 years. The recruiting classes Tressel has lined up are incredible.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 10:16 PM) We will see in 2008. Javy has had good seasons before, and followed them up with not so good seasons. We will see if he's "found it" or if he goes back to the mediocre guy he was the previous 3 seasons. Where was he the first 4 months of 2006? His record was below .500 on a 90 win team, his ERA was higher than the league average. Pretty mediocre. He did well in 2007, but still has to be considered a wild card. I like Vazquez, but the time to deal him is now. I have to think the Mets would do Lastings Milledge for Vazquez and Sweeney.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 09:21 AM) It's funny, because hitless is the same guy harping on the fact that Hunter would be a bad signing because of the years he will be getting. Yet, Garland, an average innings eater, is only signed for one year, and a reasonable price. His contract situation has value to a lot of teams. But because BP made a claim, it's the gospel..... Hunter and Garland are two very different situations. It seems like teams are really, really hesitant to trade any decent prospects/young MLBers these days. That should be doubly so for MIL which has significant payroll constraints. There's no way they trade Weeks for Garland. Personally, I like Garland a lot -- but Perry, BP, Sickels, etc. don't seem to. I think that they undervalue him as a player, but they have a better idea of what he'd fetch on the trade market than I do. I also think people overvalue Torii Hunter. I think 5 years at $80M or 6 at $90 would be a bad signing by the Sox. So, my impression of Garland's trade value is based on what I've read and what kind of trades have been made lately. My opinion of a Hunter signing is just my opinion of what he'd bring to the team in comparison to what he would cost.

QUOTE(rockren @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 07:44 AM) For Garland? Anything that doesn't start with Hall or Weeks should end the conversation with the Brewers. They can have Count for Gamel. I think that's really over-valuing Garland. Weeks? For a 1 year of league-average pitching at $12M? There's not a big market for that. Gamel is a B prospect, which is about what the Sox should expect -- Perry, Sickels, and BP have all pegged Garland as being worth a B prospect plus maybe a C prospect. He's just not going to bring much in return. The Rockies already have decided not to pursue him because $12M is too much to fit in their payroll (according to Ringolsby). Plus teams know the Sox have to shed payroll if they want to sign Hunter.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 02:32 PM) Because we're a bad organization that values "attitude" over, say, OBP? It's more than that -- the Sox seem to value attitude over talent. In all probability, both Crede and Fields will be bad in 2008. Crede's back is a huge issue -- and he wasn't a particularly good hitter before getting hurt. I think the numbers back up Keith Law pretty well on that. And I agree -- Fields is going to see fastball after fastball right down the pipe next season and so far all he's shown on those pitches is the ability to strikeout. And these are two of the Sox better players. I don't think I've ever seen an organization so bereft of talent.

QUOTE(whitesoxin' @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) Has nobody mentioned Jordan Crawford? He was 10-11 from the field and 6-6 behind the arc in the first game. He is fast, athletic, and he can shoot the lights out. Deandre Thomas will push people around down low, Bassett is going to improve, and Ratlif comes back next semester. As long as Stemler doesn't single handidly lose games for us this year, IU is going to destroy. I think Crawford and Gordon will both be lottery picks (I don't think Crawford will be one and done).

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 03:36 PM) How many more times do you think a guy with a .350 OBP gets on base compared to a guy with a .330 OBP? In 600 plate appearances.......12 more times in the whole season. That is 2 more times per month. So with Thome hitting home runs in, let's give him, 6% of his plate appearances. How many solo shots is Thome expected to hit with the .330 OBP guy leading off that would have been 2-run shots with the .350 guy? 1. Well, what do we project Owens OBP to be? I'd be shocked if it's over .315ish given a full year of at-bats. The issue isn't just making a few less outs; it seems like the Sox could get 2 guys with .350 OBPs in the 1 & 2 slots instead of .315/.330 for a lot less than $80M. And the offense would be just as good or better. Maybe I'm completely wrong -- someone can go ahead and show me that Ryan Church and Mark Loretta would have far fewer runs created than Owens/Hunter (I suppose it's possible -- Hunter's power is a significant factor).

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 02:58 PM) Well, obviously, but none of the names really floating around would solve this problem and we aren't really flooded with trading chips. With Hunter, there is nothing we can really do to help Thome hit more HR with runners on besides hitting Konerko ahead of him, and then Konerko has the same problem. It sucks, I know. For all this "speed, fundamentals" crap Ozzie and KW have been preaching, we are 2001-2004 just with a different set of hitters. Well, picking up a guy that has a .350 OBP shouldn't be that damn hard. Luke Scott shouldn't cost much. If the Nats sign a CF Church should be available. Mark Loretta is old as rock but should be good for a .350 OBP (although not much else). Same with Iguchi. Putting Owens and Hunter at one and two would be an OBP disaster.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 01:00 PM) If we did pick up Jenkins and Hunter for LF and CF, that makes for a serious lineup of hitters, but... no real leadoff guy That's just it isn't it? Don't you think if the Sox sign Hunter, Owens will be the LF? That's why KW said Fields is likely ticketed for AAA. That's why Fields isn't playing LF in the AFL. The Sox believe they have to have a speedy leadoff-man, and so they're going waste LF on Owens (or maybe Shannon Stewart) while shelling out $80M for a .330 OBP player to man CF. If the plan is Owens & Hunter, it's an absolutely insipid offseason plan. The Sox biggest offensive failing is their lack of OBP, especially at the top of the order. And the solution appears to be using $80M to do make that not better at all. It's a huge misallocation of resources. They're going to spend a ton of money to give the most at-bats to the guys that make the most outs. I can't imagine any other organization in baseball being this stupid.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 11:48 AM) You do realize Indiana only has 2 starters listed 6-9. Indiana has at least 4 NBA caliber players on it's roster, two them probable lottery picks. They are also the most athletic team in the conference. They also have the best PF/C in conference. Lacking some height in a second big-man isn't going to make a difference. They'll win the Big Ten.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 10:58 AM) Really, what would it take for us to get Cabrera? Everyone else to balk and Florida to say, "We're trading him, that's it"? I pretty much agree. The Sox don't have the talent to outbid any other team (and I mean any) for Cabrera. But, I think Florida would take a package of Jenks, Danks, Fields, and DLS.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 09:42 AM) No, they just stated they won't deal Joba for sure. I could see the Yankees eventually parting with Ian Kennedy to get a Miguel Cabrera, especially for what ARod is demanding. Yeah -- that public stuff is just posturing by the Yankees. Seriously, they won't deal Ian Kennedy to get Cabrera and keep him from BOS and LAA? That's ridiculous. I agree that they won't deal Joba, but I wouldn't be shocked to see Hughes moved for Cabrera. It's not like dealing for an older player -- Cabrera isn't even at the age where performance typically peaks.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 10:16 AM) Wait until he pitches against a patient team that doesnt swing at so much crap out of the zone. I think that's right. His control is not good. Broadway did not do well in AAA. His numbers are worse than his 4.65 ERA indicates. He had a 1.5 WHIP and K/BB of 6/4.5. That's terrible. And the IL was a horrible offensive league last season. I don't think Broadway would do well as a starting pitcher in the big leagues.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 10:02 AM) Rotoworld talks about how the Twins are looking to trade young pitching, namely Garza, for an impact bat I say offer Fields for Garza and run all the way to the bank. The Twins are looking at Delmon Young, B.J. Upton, and Carlos Gomez. Fields is junk compared to those names. The Sox simply don't have the talent to players in the trade market.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 12:42 AM) As long as they slide hard into 2b on meaningless plays that aren't even close...they're okay in my book... I'm convinced that the reason the Sox are so high on Torii Hunter is because he knocked the snot out of Burke back in 2004.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 8, 2007 -> 12:30 AM) Sending Fields to AAA to start the year would be just about the dumbest decision the organization could make. Really? I think having your offseason plan be "pay an aging .320 OBP player $80M to play CF and stick Owens in LF because you need a speedy leadoff man" the dumbest move they could make. Does anyone think this isn't the plan? It obviously is. Fields isn't playing LF in the AFL. Uribe is back at 2B. Richar didn't get to leadoff last season. The Sox are going pay Hunter a ton of money. And he can't leadoff (and shouldn't). The only possibility outside of Owens is signing Shannon Stewart. The Sox are stuck on using LF for players that can't hit. No other organization in baseball is this dumb.

QUOTE(Chombi and the Fungi @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 10:58 PM) Above average AL pitcher > above average hitter > Bill Hall (mediocre NL hitter) AL > NL AL pitcher to NL > NL hitter to AL Performance, ability, potential > meaningless contract Garland > Hall Any questions? What did Bill Hall do to you to earn such disdain? Playing in the Cell I think he'd be an average defensive SS with an .800 OPS under control for 3 years. He may be a mediocre hitter overall (although his 3 year splits are much better than mediocre), but at SS his bat is better than mediocre. You absolutely can't ignore his position. I don't know what to say about the "meaninglessness" of contracts. One year of Garland at $12M isn't a bargain. He's a good pitcher, but are the Brewers going pony up $15M per year over 5 years for him (and that's minimum)? I don't think so. Performance, ability, potential are meaningless when the guy with that stuff will be working for another team in a year. Hall is 27, and in his prime. He can play SS. He's shown that he can hit major league pitching. He's a better bet to provide major league value than just about any prospect that Garland could realistically be traded for. If the Sox swung a Garland for Hall trade, I'd think Williams had done well.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 03:54 PM) Our lack of "sexy" prospects in the farm system really hurts our ability to trade. Outside of DLS and Gio, there's no one that we can put in a trade to really sweeten the pot. Yep. The Sox have no player comparable to the OF that DET gave up and the pitcher that they sent over was a young ML-ready starter. So, the Sox would have had to ship out Danks and Sweeney and someone else (Egbert?) just to come close to DET's offer. And that's for a year of Renteria + his $11M 2009 option.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 02:45 PM) Heh . . . I'm not saying the two situations are necessarily comparable but it is pretty funny that I can so easily plug Uribe's name into some of the posts from the Pods Signs thread from Dec. 1st of '06. True enough. But starting Uribe is, in my mind, more defensible than starting Pods. It's a lot easier to find a LF that can stay on the field and contribute at the plate than finding a SS (and Uribe's glove is still well-above average IMO, even though he's a terrible hitter). There aren't a lot of options for SS. The problem with Pods is that the Sox decided they needed a speedy lead-off hitter. And then the choices came down to Juan Pierre or Dave Roberts. So they re-sign Pods. Instead, they should have just signed someone who could hit to play LF.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 11:09 AM) according to espn 1000 im going to kill myself. The other options were giving up minor league talent like Sweeney for someone like Jack Wilson (and his horrific contract) or Adam Everett. Picking up Uribe's option doesn't improve the team in 2008, but it doesn't make the team worse for the future. It's one year. And the Sox could still move him in a trade if they can find a better SS. It's not a bad move.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 10:43 AM) Levine reported today the Sox will make the bigger offer in franchise history, likely something around 5 years, 80 million for Hunter as soon as they're allowed to talk contracts. He's far and away the #1 guy on their list, and he thinks Hunter will be a Sox outfielder next year. Wow, I think that will be a very bad signing. I think KW is entranced by the guy that ran over Burke and wants that aggression on his team. Nevermind the declining defensive skills, low OBP, strikeouts, the fact that Hunter will have to move to a corner soon and doesn't have the bat for it. Really, the worst mistake KW could make this offseason is adding albatross contracts to the team, and it looks like he's going to do that. Plus, this means probably means either Shannon Stewart or Owens in LF or Eckstein at SS so the Sox have a leadoff man. I think the Sox need some new talent evaluators.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 10:16 AM) Gio talks surprise me some. The team seemed so high on him and he showed good poise in his September call up. I sometimes question KW's take on young players. I think the fact that he spent all year in Birmingham tells you the Sox intend to move him. They didn't want him exposed in AAA (where his HR problems would likely resurface in the Charlotte bandbox). They kept him in a pitcher's park to maintain his value rather than push him to the next level.

QUOTE(Markbilliards @ Nov 6, 2007 -> 08:30 PM) Would you trade Bobby Jenks and Jon Danks for him? That wouldn't be enough. It would have to something like Fields, Jenks, Danks, and Gio.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Nov 6, 2007 -> 01:31 PM) I have not followed sports in about a year and even i know jack wilson = t3h SuX0Rs!!! Which makes him a perfect fit for the 2008 Sox. Overpriced slap-hitting veteran? That's the ticket to the playoffs.