hitlesswonder

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 11:52 PM) Mediocre? Before Monday's game, he had batted .183/.213/.192 when leading off an inning. He's hit .197/.228/.221 with nobody out, and .208/.250/.226 in his first at-bat of the game against a starter. But you can't teach speed....

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 11:30 PM) And then, from the best minor league system in the MLB comes Aaron Rowand, Joe Crede, Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, a s***load of relievers, and a few AAAA/5th starters. And who was in charge of the minor league system under Schueler....that's right -- it was Kenny Williams!

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 04:14 PM) Purpura was NOT a very good GM. He inherited the 2005 team. He just wasn't very good. Garner...meh. Middling at best. The difference is, this is Ozzie's FIRST managing job...so I would hope they would give him a little extra time to try and work itself out. Garner has managed before and you know what you are getting. Plus the Jennings trade...didn't turn out so well. Ozzie has almost as many winning seasons (3) as Garner (4) has had. The difference is that Ozzie is in his 4th year and Garner is in his 15th. It's not unreasonable to give Ozzie more rope than Garner based on that. Not that Ozzie doesn't drive me nuts with his sac bunts, IBBs, rampant pitching changes, etc. That being said, I wouldn't be upset if the White Sox cleaned house. It might seem rash on the heels of 2 90-win seasons, but the minor league system is such a travesty that holding the GM accountable wouldn't be unreasonable either.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 12:50 AM) Sorry, I'm not seeing #4 at best there. I'll switch to saying #3 then...

QUOTE(BearSox @ Aug 26, 2007 -> 05:32 PM) I doubt that. You shouldn't. Young has 5 more really cheap years left before he becomes a FA. He's a CF with plus defense, premier power and speed. The only element lacking is OBP, and his minor league numbers suggest that won't be a problem for long. Vazquez is a having a decent year, but he's only under contract 3 more seasons, is older, expensive, and honestly is #3 or #4 starter on a playoff quality team. It's easier to acquire someone like Vazquez than someone like Young.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Aug 26, 2007 -> 10:44 PM) One bad outing and the flood gates open up for Vazquez, yet we can't trade Jon Garland because he's one of the best starters in the league. Where is the ripping on of Garland? I'll rip on both. Neither one of Garland or Vazquez is a top-tier or even second-tier pitcher at this point in their careers. Neither one is more than a #4 starter on a playoff team. Both are overpaid. And if Williams has any clue what he's doing, Vazquez needs to be traded this offseason. He's having a decent season, and someone might get suckered like the Sox did.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 26, 2007 -> 09:52 AM) I'm going to be so f***ing pissed if they go out and sign Vizquel. He seriously needs to retire, he'll be 41 next year and has been absolutely dreadful this season. John McDonald who is a terrible hitter, one of the worst you will ever see would be a better option, at least he'd only cost about a million dollars. I think Vizquel is starting on the Sox next season. Kenny acquires the players he wants -- sometimes several years too late. Giants of the AL without all the young pitching. That is indeed the likely future.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2007 -> 05:09 PM) I'm just stunned by the love for Owens...and even more shocked by the love for Richar. I can't see how a team can actually think they can compete with the big boys with those two guys as starters, and crappy players like who we have in the bullpen and Mr. Danks. Well, Richar has shown some patience at the plate and power. I would agree that despite the lower average he seems like a much better hitting prospect than Owens. But I also think that any team which starts Owens, Richar, Fields, and has Danks starting is going to be the worst team in major league baseball. And it won't be close. That's the core of a mediocre AAA team...

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 22, 2007 -> 05:22 AM) Complete bulls***. Prove that Thome is unclutch Prove that the 2005 White Sox won the World Series and the 2006 didn't because of chemistry, not because of pitching. I guess I should have used color codings...there was a strong element of sarcasm in my post.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 22, 2007 -> 12:42 AM) How isn't he earning his money? I didn't think I had to justify those numbers coming from a hitter who's guaranteed only $21.5M over 3 years from the Sox. Good luck finding a better bargain from a player with at least 6 years of service time. No, no, no...the official line is that Thome is unclutch, the Sox didn't need another slow power hitter, and the Sox lost the attitude and chemistry that propelled them to a World Series when they traded Rowand. If you have trouble remembering that don't worry, someone will post it again sometime soon.

QUOTE(Lemon_44 @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 09:43 AM) Garland, Crede, Owens, and Haeger to TB for Crawford and sign Hunter. Give us an OF of Crawford, Hunter, Dye. I would like that OF. Are you joking? You could try Jenks, Danks, Gio, and DLS for Crawford and TB might do it.

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Aug 16, 2007 -> 10:53 AM) I've been saying that about Thome for months and getting pounded for it. Love the guy, but he ain't helpin. We didn't need anymore power hitters to begin with, much less one with no speed whatsoever. Plus he's unclutch.

QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 15, 2007 -> 02:26 PM) You don't know that. I guess I'm in the minority on taking a chance on a kid who is 6'8 and can jump 42 inches. I mean, that's insane. It's true -- I read the offer list from some post about him. It might be wrong. But how do you know he can jump 42 inches? You read that somewhere and believe it. The bottom line is that Davis was not a highly sought after recruit. I think that is incontrovertible. It doesn't mean he can't/won't be a good player -- I really have no idea about that. But at this point, it's impossible to defend Weber's recruiting as being anything but bad. He's getting the same talent level that he did at a mid-major. I don't think it's being overly critical to say that.

QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 15, 2007 -> 01:55 PM) He's a three star? Not that the star rating matters much. I'd be willing to take any 6'8 kid with a 42 inch vertical, basketball skills or not. I read that he was a 1 star on Scout and 3 on Rivals. As you said, the specific rating doesn't matter much. The important point is that this is a player who had 1 offer (Auburn) from a major and a bunch of mid-major offers. Weber has been forced to go out of state to land even mid-major talent.

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Aug 15, 2007 -> 11:27 AM) can't say i'm surprised. the report out of washington earlier was a bad sign to begin with and this confirms those fears. looks like we're are honing in on a complete strikeout with our targets in this class. wonderful work by the staff, just wonderful. In my effort to be more than just critical Weber, here's a question: what do you think about Ryan Hare? Would he go to UI if offered? How good is he?

QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 15, 2007 -> 11:15 AM) I no longer trust you. Suggs to Washington per Washington radio sources. Called all the coaches recruiting him and let them know. Wow. Weber brings in a 1 star recruit from Virginia and loses Suggs to a team without a scholarship for him. Impressive week's work.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 01:18 PM) Not that I think that KW is necessarily a better GM than Moore, but I find it odd that the guy who paid Gil Meche $55 million is being touted as the next big thing, while the guy who got Mark Buehrle for $56 million is getting raked over the coals. I don't think you're necessarily referring to me, but I tried to be clear that I'm not raking KW over the coals. That will happen next year if the starting OF is Owens-Erstad-Sweeney...

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 12:27 PM) Tyler Lumsden has put up a 6.25 ERA in 19 starts for the Omaha Royals (AAA). Batters are hitting .302 against him. It's really hard for me to find a logical reason why one could say that the Royals have won that trade. They aren't paying MacDougal for his 2007 performance. I thought it was a good trade for the Sox and maybe Mac can make it look good next season. I thought the Sisco trade was good. I thought signing Meche was silly. Right now, Moore looks quite a bit smarter than me....

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 12:31 PM) Start naming them. Gordon and Teahen are both better than Fields. Butler used to play 3B, but reading up on him now I guess his D was atrocious. So, I guess only 2 better young 3Bs than Fields. Other good KC prospects (aside from Hocheevar): Lubanski, Huber, Bianchi, Jarod Plummer, Moustakas, Runion. You're right that KC needs pitching but I have more faith in Moore's scouting and development team to produce it than I do in the Sox. I wasn't saying Moore was a better GM than Williams to belittle KW -- I think he's a good GM. I just think Moore is a very good GM. At worst I'm extrapolating too much from his ATL roots and his brief track record

QUOTE(SoxFan77 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 12:20 PM) Because he also brought the farm dir and international scouting director and is setting up the same system the Braves have.. I would say yes. I have more faith in him building a winner through the farm system than KW. I think Moore is better GM than Williams. He's won both trades he's made with the Sox. And KC has a brighter future than the Sox. Look at the young talent base the two clubs have. The Sox have Josh Fields and ...that's it. KC has 3 young 3B better than Fields plus a bunch of other decent prospects.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 11:42 AM) If they try to bring Erstad back as a backup role...I think we can all almost give a guarantee that somehow, he'll be the starting CF on day 1. There's no doubt in my mind that Erstad will start if he is on the Sox next season. In fact, while I think Pods is gone, I think a hellaciously bad OF of Owens-Erstad-Sweeney is pretty likely. Arrrgh.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 11:24 AM) You answered your own question. When Podsednik is just adequate at the top of the order, the Sox win. You could say the same for any leadoff hitter you could find. If Tim Raines were healthy and putting up a .350 OBP at the top of the lineup the Sox would probably be winning some games even with him being 47 years old. An adequate and healthy leadoff hitter does wonders for this team, the problem is Podsednik can't manage to be either of these for any more than about 80 games a season now. I agree. Why do people think Pods is the only leadoff hitter out there? Really, 2 years in a row KW will have no other option? If there's one thing Williams should freaking do this offseason it's get a leadoff hitter (and by that I mean someone who gets on base and not picked off) that plays SS,2B or CF. Scoring from 1B on bunt and error doesn't erase a wretched .330 OBP last season, all the injuries, and the fact he can't play CF. That last bit is important. Who here thinks the way to fix the offense is to have Pods in LF and Erstad in CF again? You want to give the offense a boost? Get a leadoff man to play CF and a hitter to play left. Assuming Dye is gone, the Sox will especially need more than a .300 SLG from their LF. And I really doubt the Sox are going shell $10M per to sign Hunter/Byrnes/Rowand. Which is fine because none of those guys inspires me with confidence that they aren't having career years. I'm sort of surpirsed how many people want Pods back in LF next season. If that happens, it's clearly true that history repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 10:45 PM) balentein is a start but he's no sure thing like Garland is. I agree -- the Sox should ask for Clement and Wlad. Garland is not a rental and he's low 4 ERA pitcher in the Cell. In Seattle, with a real bullpen, he should post very nice numbers. If Linebrink can haul in a B prospect and two C prospects, Garland should bring in two B/B+ prospects. And the Sox are under no pressure to trade him. I have give props to rotoworld -- they were one of the few media outlets that said the Sox would definitely want more than Wlad for Garland. I think a lot of people, perhaps Rogers included, don't realize how well Garland has pitched over the last few years.

QUOTE(Jeremy @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 10:24 PM) Well the extension was signed before the '06 season and he was signed through '06 with or without the extension so basically what you're saying is that you should give a player a large contract based on 20 starts? That seems crazy to me. It was a bad deal. How bad remains to be seen. The circumstances were that KW had little starting pitching locked up beyond a year or two at that point (Garland hadn't signed an extension). And Contreras had #1 starter stuff, which is rare in general and rarer still on the South Side. Williams took a risk and he didn't get much back except a dominant half season in 2006. Good GMs sometimes sign good pitchers to bad contracts. Beane gave Loaiza a 3 year $22M deal and hasn't gotten much out of that. LAA's signing of Colon has not been great either. Conteras' deal isn't nearly as crippling as Zito's contract looks to be, not that I'm saying Sabean is a good GM. Anyway, we have yet to see how many bad innings Jose pitches in 2008 and 2009 for the Sox and how much of the contract the Sox have to eat when they finally move him.

QUOTE(Jeremy @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 09:49 PM) Kenny inherited a 95 win team with one of the lowest payrolls in the league and a farm system rated amongst the best by Baseball America so keeping the team above .500 shouldn't be considered a huge feat in my mind. I don't want to cast myself as a Williams defender...but I guess I'll do it. That farm system ranking turned out to be largely illusory, didn't it? Who panned out from the system that existed in 2000? Crede, Wells, Buehrle, and Garland had graduated to the bigs in 2000 - 2001 hadn't they? Borchard and all the high profile 1999 and 2000 pitchers basically flamed out. In retrospect, it's safe to say it wasn't the best system in baseball. And the major league staff shredded their arms in 2000. I don't think he came into as cushy a situation you paint it. Williams work at the major league level improved significantly. I think he built decent clubs from 2003 through 2006. He rarely made any bad acquisitions in those years.